1. #1

    Sentry APS /w Marauder 6pcs

    0.
    • On placed, Sentry attacks every 0.9 sec(regardless to APS, 0.6~0.7 sec /w TnT) until first bolt fired
    • After firing a bolt, its attack CD varies in 0.9~0.3sec range with 0.1 sec step, defending on (character's APS * TnT eff).
    • No base bolt fired with 3 hatred spenders, so Sentry attacks at fixed attack speed when using 3 hatred spenders.


    1. 3 spenders (Cluster Arrow, Multishot, Impale)
    • /wo TnT : C M I repeat / 0.9sec attack CD / 2.7 sec between CA to next
    • /w 40%~45%(assumed) pet IAS TnT : C M I M repeat / 0.7sec attack CD / 2.8 sec
    • /w 46%(assumed)~50% pet IAS TnT : C M I M repeat / 0.6sec attack CD / 2.4 sec


    2. 2 spenders (Cluster Arrow, Multishot)
    Sentry's attack speed and rotation changed by (character APS * TnT eff)

    *B : bolt

    I refered to link below for some data
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12674389831

    1.10 : 2h crossbow, 0.00% haste
    1.11 : 2h crossbow, 1.00% haste
    1.25 : 2h crossbow, 14.00% haste
    1.26 : 2h crossbow, 32.00% haste
    1.45 : 2h crossbow, 32.00% haste
    1.46 : 2h crossbow, 33.00% haste
    1.73 : hand crossbow, 8.00% haste
    1.74 : hand crossbow, 9.00% haste
    2.15 : refered link
    2.16 : hand crossbow, 35.00% haste
    2.84 : refered link
    2.85 : refered link
    2.86 : hand crossbow, 20.00% haste, 49% TnT (1.6 * 1.2 * 1.49 = 2.8608)



    !Edit

    A1. Each critical points of APS seem to be:
    0.9s -> 0.8s : 54/49 = 1.10204...
    0.8s -> 0.7s : 54/43 = 1.25581...
    0.7s -> 0.6s : 54/37 = 1.45945...
    0.6s -> 0.5s : 54/31 = 1.74193...
    0.5s -> 0.4s : 54/25 = 2.16
    0.4s -> 0.3s : 54/19 = 2.84210...

    A2. There are 2 grades of Tasker and Theo when using 3 hatred spender. Both cycles 'Cluster - Multi - Impale - Multi' with different speed.

    • 40%~45% increase pet attack speed (43% in experiment clip) - attacks every 0.7s
    First CA


    5th CA


    (1120-448)frames / 60fps / 4cycles = 2.8 sec / cycle (0.7s per shot)


    • 46%~50% increase pet attack speed (49% in experiment clip) - attacks every 0.6s

    First CA


    5th CA


    (1027-448)frames / 60fps / 4cycles = 2.4125 sec / cycle (0.6s per shot)
    Last edited by ekardnah; 2014-05-26 at 04:25 PM. Reason: Additional experiment on TnT added

  2. #2
    So... the goal for maximum damage would be to use a very slow 2h crossbow (highest damage per shot) and trying to get 33% haste, to get 4 skills out of 2.4 secs?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by DiGG View Post
    So... the goal for maximum damage would be to use a very slow 2h crossbow (highest damage per shot) and trying to get 33% haste, to get 4 skills out of 2.4 secs?
    or you know get a helltraper and have unlimited sentries...
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

  4. #4
    Helltrapper isn't reliable enough for that. Best 2h crosbow is the Buriza because of its special - rock HA and enjoy uber damage.

    Also, a 2h weapon is preferred because of bigger hits - internal CDs are kept more or less the same not depending on the weapon, so a 2h will just net you harder hitting spenders from turrets. If you manage to make your turrets shot faster, the additional shots are just normal ones so you don't get faster generator spam.

    It all depends on the weapons you have available ofc, and in this we don't count special weapons like Calamity, which whit his special may prove to be on par if not better than a 2h.
    No one wants to choose. Everyone wants everything.

  5. #5
    I've tried both 2h and dual wield (with Helltrapper) and both feel about the same in terms of power. With the 2h, the turrets obviously hit a lot harder, but with the Helltrapper (I have 2760dps with a 9% proc on mine) and Entangling Shot which has a full 1.00 proc coefficient, it spawns a ton of turrets. After a particularly large fight (say 1-2 elites and a champion pack), the ground is covered with at least half a dozen turrets. Sometimes as many as 10. For this reason I find that using the Helltrapper build it's a little more "active" of a playstyle since you're constantly fishing for procs, whereas when I was using the Buriza, I found myself just dropping turrets and moving out of the way more often.

    I like both methods and have been switching back and forth trying to find out which is "better" and in terms of how long it takes to clear a rift, they've been about the exact same for me. Definitely having a lot of fun with the 6 piece.

  6. #6
    Hm, so Helltrapper spawns are not capped? That could open up interesting setups - especially duawielding Helltrapper + Calamity due to the special.

    Also, if proc is reliable enough, it means we can free up a slot in skills, leaving room for a 3rd spender or even better to Vengeance (which is a really great offensive CD).

    Adding a reference to discussion: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12945884471

    From this thread which is aimed to find the AS breakpoints as we're doing here, the tests show how different attack speed values and weapons affect the actual shot frequency of spenders, apart CA, which is fired the same amount of times independently by the variables above.

    Counting this, and the fact that using any of the fast spenders (Impale, Chakram, EA) that should replace the normal turret bolt will just make the sentries shot at base attack speed not being affected anymore by AS bonuses, i think that something's definitely broken.

    Our assumptions: either the spenders should be ALWAYS on a fixed cd, thus favoring 2h xbows in any possible environment, or they should vary based on bonuses and especially equipped weapons making all setups at least viable. Since it's not the case and everything changes based on spenders, i'm actually a little puzzled by this.
    No one wants to choose. Everyone wants everything.

  7. #7
    *My* experience with a Helltrapper was really bad. I don't recall the proc rate on mine (will have to check) but since I'm using a 2 or 3 spenders spec, I'm kind of letting the sentries do all the job, and if Helltrapper procs ONLY from when I shoot, then it's really not worth it. My gear has pretty much no hatred regen, so my gameplay is based on placing the sentries down and me moving around them, shooting maybe CA once per 10 seconds! If on the other end Helltrapper procs from the sentries alone, then I was very unlucky, as I've counted TWO extra sentries (custom engineering (=3) + 2 = 5) on my screen, FAR from the 6-10 sentries other people seem to talk about. And thats counting that the sentries do way less damage than with a huge slow 2h.

    I'm still not convinced, and still waiting to see a screeshot or a video, of how much this is really worth.

  8. #8
    Well, i tend to have the exact opposite playstyle - i want to unload my hatred for big burst moments and spam generators if needed. So Helltrapper proc would just suit my needs; i'll have turrets that can unleash a good amount of damage plus CA plus Vengeance for additional on demand burst.

    Also, the ideal setup would be Helltrapper + Calamity: dual-wileding makes room for an additional 135% crit dmg and the special means 20% more damage overall. probably a two hand would be still optimal, but i can deal comparable damage. Atm since i rolled a pretty good Natalya, i'm using that over Buriza (and faster/spammy playstle just appeals me more).
    No one wants to choose. Everyone wants everything.

  9. #9
    @Coldkil: ok so you absolutely don't use THREE spenders (haha). You use CA and MS or just CA? Can you link me your spec?

    I've been trying this today: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculato...kS!Uhfb!ccbZac

    It works, but I'm 90% dependant on the sentries.

  10. #10
    Spec/gear setup is in my sig - it's not optimized a lot due to someway bad rolls on gear (and i need the Mara chest so i can equip T&T) but it has all the things needed atm.

    I have on the bars both MS and CA since it's the best setup atm (i'd go with MS,CA and EA if i had a good Kridershot to test with - but atm Turrets are bugged and using anything outside MS/CA combo makes turret shot at base speed).

    Anyway, i use only CA manually, MS is there because turrets will shot it for me and i don't actually use it.

    EDIT: i'd switch from Ballistic to Grenadier since you use LfB and Strafe/Demolition.
    No one wants to choose. Everyone wants everything.

  11. #11
    Oh my, sorry: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculato...kS!Uhfb!ccbZac

    I'm NOT using strafe, but MS. Great brain freeze here, almost same icon hahaha. So, no Strafe!

    ---
    That being said I tried last night: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/D...6/hero/1663128
    Which work but I was using a +sentry quiver, and so it felt like it took me about the same time than without Bola and 3 spenders. Also, regenerating THREE hatred feels low, I do have a The Ninth Cirri Satchel and using Hungering Arrow with Serrated Arrow which gives double hatred might be a better bet... hmm.
    Last edited by DiGG; 2014-05-29 at 12:42 PM.

  12. #12
    Well, impale doesn't deliver enough to me - it hits for a lot for sure, but i don't like at all the fact it's limited to one target only; the bounce or perforation runes look more appealing to me. Too bad they're the wrong element.

    If you want to run a 3 spenders setup, i suggest Fire EA or Fire Chakram instead - EA for more cc, Chakram for more AoE.
    No one wants to choose. Everyone wants everything.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by DiGG View Post
    *My* experience with a Helltrapper was really bad. I don't recall the proc rate on mine (will have to check) but since I'm using a 2 or 3 spenders spec, I'm kind of letting the sentries do all the job, and if Helltrapper procs ONLY from when I shoot, then it's really not worth it. My gear has pretty much no hatred regen, so my gameplay is based on placing the sentries down and me moving around them, shooting maybe CA once per 10 seconds! If on the other end Helltrapper procs from the sentries alone, then I was very unlucky, as I've counted TWO extra sentries (custom engineering (=3) + 2 = 5) on my screen, FAR from the 6-10 sentries other people seem to talk about. And thats counting that the sentries do way less damage than with a huge slow 2h.

    I'm still not convinced, and still waiting to see a screeshot or a video, of how much this is really worth.
    Well, you said it yourself. Helltrapper isn't proccing for you because you aren't shooting. No, sentries or pets cannot proc it. That's cool if you want to play that way, but if you want to use Helltrapper to its best efficiency you need to be shooting something all the time, even if its just a generator. Also remember it can proc spike traps and caltrops, so you won't always get a sentry. It's exceedingly rare that I don't kill a champion/elite and not spawn at least 1 extra sentry in the process (on T5/T6).


    Hm, so Helltrapper spawns are not capped? That could open up interesting setups - especially duawielding Helltrapper + Calamity due to the special.
    Yes, Helltrapper sentries don't count towards your normal limit.

    I want a Calamity so bad. Use a nat's slayer now (combined with ring for the dual set bonuses).
    Last edited by BendakWoW; 2014-05-30 at 03:42 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Well, impale doesn't deliver enough to me - it hits for a lot for sure, but i don't like at all the fact it's limited to one target only; the bounce or perforation runes look more appealing to me. Too bad they're the wrong element.

    If you want to run a 3 spenders setup, i suggest Fire EA or Fire Chakram instead - EA for more cc, Chakram for more AoE.

    Out of curiosity, why are you using Grenadier instead of Ballistics? All your skills seem to fire off rockets, not grenades.

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