Is Siege of Orgrimmar REALLY that hard?

[Utinil]

(That is if he were a Target dummy, in the actual fight P1 you have to redirect some DPS away to Ads, Weapons, and Wheel.

Why do you think there is a need to redirect dps away to adds (I will grant you weapons)? You let the "wheel" kill the adds and just rely on the little bit of AoE that is part of a single target standard rotation do the rest. Also, these are highly skilled players (I assume) so they don't even have to kill the engineer to stop the second wheel, you just "dodge" them. My primary concern with Garrosh is, can they get through the first "sha" phase fast enough to prevent Garrosh from being empowered right away.

[Deleted]

Why do you think there is a need to redirect dps away to adds (I will grant you weapons)? You let the "wheel" kill the adds and just rely on the little bit of AoE that is part of a single target standard rotation do the rest. Also, these are highly skilled players (I assume) so they don't even have to kill the engineer to stop the second wheel, you just "dodge" them. My primary concern with Garrosh is, can they get through the first "sha" phase fast enough to prevent Garrosh from being empowered right away.

The iron star will only kill the adds if they are below 50% health and at that gear level "the little bit of AoE that is part of a single target standard rotation" can't do the rest (BTW not all classes have AOE in their single target rotation, even at high gear level it probably wouldn't be enough to put the adds at 50%).

And if I'm not wrong not killing an engineer implies getting twice the damage from the iron stars explosion, which would instantly wipe the raids without heavy cooldowns (I'm not even sure they can take it at that gear level).

Anyway I don't think they will make it this far, I'd be impressed if they cleared first wing.

[Deleted]

I'm starting to think full timeless isle 496 gear would be a nice challenge to see how far you could get. 471 really seems too low to do much at all.

[Gliff]

Have fun with Malkorok and Thokk. The lack of DPS for Malkorok and lack of health for Thokk.

[Deja Thoris]

Why do you think there is a need to redirect dps away to adds (I will grant you weapons)? You let the "wheel" kill the adds and just rely on the little bit of AoE that is part of a single target standard rotation do the rest. Also, these are highly skilled players (I assume) so they don't even have to kill the engineer to stop the second wheel, you just "dodge" them. My primary concern with Garrosh is, can they get through the first "sha" phase fast enough to prevent Garrosh from being empowered right away.

Others covered the double iron star explosion if you dodge it but legendary cloaks do a not insignificant amount of cleave to the adds these days. They will lose that from their "standard AoE" rotation. It's probably all moot anyway, they won't get that far in 471 gear.

[GwiGwi]

The fact that you think it's actually possible to clear normal SoO in < 496ilvl just shows your lack of understanding of game mechanics.

[Deleted]

Meta gem: Legendary or normal?

[jimlow]

Best of luck to you guys. Having recently gotten another character to 90 and trying to gear them. The DPS difference between the teir's is insane. I honestly don't know if you will be able to pull it off even with flawless execution. Top dps even with 471 gear you would only be able to push what 50-60k. The health pools might be too big for you guys before you hit enrage timers in on top of that the shear splash damage you would have to soak will be more then even you best healers to mitigate. I look forward to seeing the videos.

[Manhands]

I'm sure there's a low ilvl that can clear SoO. 471 blues sounds low; I bet it will end up being 483 LFR epics or 496 T14 Norms. But whatever ilvl they use, all it will show is that execution and good strategy minimize the ilvl required. We already knew that, given that the best guilds clear heroics with far less ilvl than the guilds who clear months later.

Sounds fun, though.

[Syenite]

Would like to see some of this uploaded to youtube - as i'll be attending a birthday party on that night and wont be able to watch the stream :<

[Vathral2]

I think this is a great idea, I wish I could attend.

I wish you guys luck, sounds like a blast. I also have no idea why people are taking offense to this idea and the way the OP delivered it either, I didn't see anything wrong with how he said it. It also makes little sense to me why people are just posting how there's no way they'll clear or anything, the idea sounds great and I'd encourage these dudes as much as I could. I'm sure most of us know the difficulty of this in sheer mathematics, but it's odd to me that we'll still try to bog it down, it's like people want to see others fail.

Regardless, GL guys, ya should make a youtube video of it since I may not be able to watch the stream, I'd love to watch.

[Deleted]

Meta gem: Legendary or normal?

Like I said earlier, you can not socket the Legendary Meta in helmets with an ilvl below 502.

[Luneward]

I think this is a great idea, I wish I could attend.

I wish you guys luck, sounds like a blast. I also have no idea why people are taking offense to this idea and the way the OP delivered it either, I didn't see anything wrong with how he said it. It also makes little sense to me why people are just posting how there's no way they'll clear or anything, the idea sounds great and I'd encourage these dudes as much as I could. I'm sure most of us know the difficulty of this in sheer mathematics, but it's odd to me that we'll still try to bog it down, it's like people want to see others fail.

Regardless, GL guys, ya should make a youtube video of it since I may not be able to watch the stream, I'd love to watch.

I don't think are taking offense to the idea itself, but there is a lot of cynicism flying around. Probably somewhat warranted. A quick sim on a few of my Timeless geared alts (albeit a little unoptimized) pulls up about a 90k maximum theoretical target dummy parse. That's incredibly borderline for beating Immerseus' enrage - let alone Norushen.

And the title alone is probably a little jerkish. Just read the first few pages and you'll see a lot of echoes "Oh it isn't hard at all!" And yet statistics posted that significant numbers of guilds are still progressing through both SoO normal and Flex. To them, it is. That's the audience those difficulties are designed for. While there's a smoother difficulty curve, the raids are still far more difficult mechanically than any expansion in the past, with much less wiggle room for individual failure since more mechanics require individual responsibility. The headline is about three steps away from saying "You people SUCK!"

The post on the other hand is reasonable and proposing and incredible test of experience and skill. I wish them well. Glad they are keeping it realistic enough to include Timeless gear as an alternate set - though I have doubts even that will be enough mechanically speaking. More than happy enough to cheer them on, since I know that I probably wouldn't have the skill to run with such tight requirements.

[kamuimac]

Have fun with Malkorok and Thokk. The lack of DPS for Malkorok and lack of health for Thokk.

i wish them best but they will never make it that far - my bet is they will switch to 496 gear on protectors and disband on juggernaut at best (if not at norushen).

[Gardiff]

First, from a post a while back, no one pulled 20k DPS even with the 30% buff in ICC. For reference, fights in the next expansion like baleroc normal mode had a DPS requirement of ~20k and ~16k on maloriak normal. Even in BIS ICC, outside of niche fights where your whole raid burned down a boss quickly and ignored everything while being in full BiS, you didn't do more than 15k. And typically with the 30% buff, it did not exceed 11-13k. Dunno, just found that irritating.

I think the thing you guys are doing is interesting. I remember another guild did this for ICC (?) last year around the end of WOTLK's lifespan. I forgot how far they got but it was not farther than 7 or 8 bosses. But remember this - The gear gap between wrath blues and wrath BiS is much smaller than it was for this expansion. I would recommend you guys just try with the 496's because that DOES seem doable at least for a good bit. With the 471s, I cannot see you getting past norushen even. The healing requirement is going to be pretty steep since you will go to near enrage even if the boss doesn't enrage himself.

As for what healers pulled back then, in 471 gear, at best you won't be pushing past numbers like 50-70k (with the noru buff ~30% higher). And you cannot sustain that for 7 minutes. And IIRC norushen straight up has a required HPS in the range of ~300-400k, depending on how your raid uses defensives etc. But if you guys 3 heal it, you will probably hit the enrage for sure.

I dunno, I would just make sure your whole raid has a solid set of 496 itemized gear (not the crappy one stat spirit item etc).

[Artemol]

Dps bashing again?

Most hunters(Because that's what i play), do around 120-150k dps in Chall modes where your gear is scaled down to 463. (Not bis geared)

[Krommm]

If the tanks don't get obliterated, then it MAY be possible. Good luck to you and your guild.

OT: No, not till the heroic mode walls.

[dd614]

Fighting attrition from boredom is the hardest part.

[Gardiff]

Not everyone is "bashing you". They are voicing their opinion on why they think it may or may not be possible in 471 gear. Or where they think you will simply get stuck.

Even if not in BiS, just being in random non-bis SoO / ToT gear / DMF trinket / etc, it is easy to pull those numbers for cmode now. But you are talking strictly heroic dungeon gear + scenario cache gear which is pretty much the polar opposite of BiS for cmodes (with maybe 1 or 2 pieces max for most classes gotten from 463s) as you can be. Pulling 120-150k on a single target fight that lasts 7 minutes as opposed to cmode fights which end in 40 seconds are two completely different things.

[Deleted]

Dps bashing again?

Most hunters(Because that's what i play), do around 120-150k dps in Chall modes where your gear is scaled down to 463. (Not bis geared)

Severly doubting you can do 120k-150k sustained dps singletarget in 463 gear.