Junglers.

[Sikplays]

I saw a thread on heroesnexus.com that had some misinformation on it about "junglers" so i wrote a reply and i wanted to post it here to maybe end some confusion.

Sending anything other than a specialist to do mercs is a waste, Gazlow is the best then Witch doctor I also saw someone say mercs weren't worth it and that's just misinformation, Mercs are a huge part of the game. Gazlow can get Giants at level one and knights at four and boss at 10. Wtich Doctor can get Giants at level one it just takes longer but, it is a waste of time for Witch Doctor to go for knights before 10 but, once you have your Ult you crush them and at 16 Witch Doctor can solo the Boss merc easily. That being said, If you don't have a specialist, A tank and Assassin are your best bet for mercs, A tank could solo them but it would take way to long, so send an assassin along with the tank to melt the mercs and you're good to go.

On the topic of lane experience it is needed yes but, you have to learn very fast when to leave your lane and your exp for team fights and objectives. I cant tell you how many games I've lost cause one person thought they were THE hero of the storm farming their lane and not helping team fights Or Objectives but, If you are farming Lane EXP instead of going for coins on Blackheart's bay you're bad and you should feel bad, Assassins and Supports are the worst about doing this it seems, Lookin at you Raynor and Malfurion.

If your team has a Nova or Zeratul, adjustments should be made to let them roam and gank lanes to keep the enemy on their toes, But Nova/Zeratul also need to make sure they are ready to haul ass to objectives, Coins, Tributes, or shrines, Skulls/Mercs depending on which golem it is....Never go skulls on the first golem!

[Novarian]

I think Illidan can solo the giants fairly well at any level, you just really need to use your skills on cooldown to avoid their attacks and not take damage.

[Sikplays]

Most Assassins can solo the Giants very early, But most of the time there pressure it better used else where. i feel like level 1-2 giants are sort a waste of time. When i play witch doctor I like to farm the lane to get the most out of my Death Ritual rather than go for level 1 giants and then go for mercs right before or right after the first objective like on Haunted mines at about 10 seconds before the mines open ill start grabbing one Giant camp while my team gets knights and ill get the other giant camp then, we either have a super strong push while there still farming skulls or we have a team fight and we either kill them and keep pushing or we die and have a fast rez and they still have to take care of our mercs before getting mines.

TL;DR Assassins can its just more effective for them to kill players and participate in team-fights

[Charo]

Meh, it really depends on who I'm playing and what my lane is looking like if I'll leave to go fight, say if I'm Sgt. Hammer and we're on Cursed Hallow and the fight is on the bottom lane and I'm up top, by the time I make it there, it'll be over or I'll get caught alone in the wilderness and get destroyed by a Zeratul.

[Valedus]

Meh, it really depends on who I'm playing and what my lane is looking like if I'll leave to go fight, say if I'm Sgt. Hammer and we're on Cursed Hallow and the fight is on the bottom lane and I'm up top, by the time I make it there, it'll be over or I'll get caught alone in the wilderness and get destroyed by a Zeratul.

I'm going to actually disagree with this. Hammer should always be in mid on Cursed Hollow for that very reason, and a early game zera should be able to wound you but not kill you. Knockback/mines/thrusters are usually enough survavibility until a hero like Zera has his ult/talents. Constant 4v5's for tribs will lose the first curse which is a pretty big deal because a forced team fight during curse can cause 3 dead forts if you win. The most effective strat I've seen is get 2/3 tribs, get boss golem (and knights if you have the dps to do it before trib spawns) and then get 3rd trib. Heroes like Murky are so detrimental to their team on Hollow for reasons like that. He can stall a pickup a little bit, but he won't really kill anyone.

[Sikplays]

Valedus is correct. Everyone has to learn where their hero fits into the best to get the most out of them. There has been a lot of times especially during Abathur free week *shudder* that Abathur just wants to go top and sit there while he should be going mid. same thing has happen with Hammer.

[Novarian]

I'm going to actually disagree with this. Hammer should always be in mid on Cursed Hollow for that very reason, and a early game zera should be able to wound you but not kill you. Knockback/mines/thrusters are usually enough survavibility until a hero like Zera has his ult/talents. Constant 4v5's for tribs will lose the first curse which is a pretty big deal because a forced team fight during curse can cause 3 dead forts if you win. The most effective strat I've seen is get 2/3 tribs, get boss golem (and knights if you have the dps to do it before trib spawns) and then get 3rd trib. Heroes like Murky are so detrimental to their team on Hollow for reasons like that. He can stall a pickup a little bit, but he won't really kill anyone.

I think people under estimate Murky a bit. Assuming your egg is close enough that you can get back into the fray, Murky can deal quite a bit of damage with his poison. The problem is most people will build straight siege no matter what but I've noticed if I get the improved poison talent at level 1 and envenom at level 4 that I can put a pretty nasty dot on heroes. This also keeps invis heroes from being able to cloak back up for a while allowing your team an extra pick off and if your egg is close enough you can stall tribute gathering for a while and keep the dot running on them.

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Valedus is correct. Everyone has to learn where their hero fits into the best to get the most out of them. There has been a lot of times especially during Abathur free week *shudder* that Abathur just wants to go top and sit there while he should be going mid. same thing has happen with Hammer.

I just can't wait until more people start getting an understanding of Abathur, I die a little bit on the inside whenever I see someone take him out past the wall and try to lane with them.

[Fluffyjesus]

I think people under estimate Murky a bit. Assuming your egg is close enough that you can get back into the fray, Murky can deal quite a bit of damage with his poison. The problem is most people will build straight siege no matter what but I've noticed if I get the improved poison talent at level 1 and envenom at level 4 that I can put a pretty nasty dot on heroes. This also keeps invis heroes from being able to cloak back up for a while allowing your team an extra pick off and if your egg is close enough you can stall tribute gathering for a while and keep the dot running on them.

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I just can't wait until more people start getting an understanding of Abathur, I die a little bit on the inside whenever I see someone take him out past the wall and try to lane with them.

Would you say the more poison build is good? I've been toying with it a bit, but I feel like more of a liability then.

[WarioMCP]

I haven't even thought of jungling in this game.

[Orkwuzhere]

I die a little bit on the inside whenever I see someone take him out past the wall and try to lane with them.

Admit it: you did this too.

[Beazy]

Technically there is no jungling in this game, its pretty much THE game. If you don't get mercs, you will lose. Unless you're fighting level 1 to 20 newbz. But the higher you rise in levels, the faster you realize that mercs are the key, right behind the primary map objective. Knowing when to "pop" mercs is key too.

[Orkwuzhere]

Technically there is no jungling in this game, its pretty much THE game. If you don't get mercs, you will lose. Unless you're fighting level 1 to 20 newbz. But the higher you rise in levels, the faster you realize that mercs are the key, right behind the primary map objective. Knowing when to "pop" mercs is key too.

This. Mercs can be an assest on the mine map when everyone is fighting for skulls. They have a little more priority over some objectives depending on the map.

[PACOX]

I don't know how its in upper levels but you can pretty much call GG on the first skull one if one team rushes skulls and another secures mercs (the merc team being the one that wins).

[Sikplays]

Its not game over but it can be huge to get all the top mercs and push that lane while they mess with skulls

[Orkwuzhere]

I don't know how its in upper levels but you can pretty much call GG on the first skull one if one team rushes skulls and another secures mercs (the merc team being the one that wins).

Pretty much this.

In a non-mine map, don't ever pull a boss merc early game even if you have a big lead. You're wasting time that could be spent securing objectives, and you're going to make the jungler very angry (I lost my shit when one of my teams got a team wipe early because they pulled the boss merc at 7, letting the enemy team pick up the raven tribute*).

*That map can go to Hell. Raven's one of the worst maps in HoTS.

[Beazy]

I don't know how its in upper levels but you can pretty much call GG on the first skull one if one team rushes skulls and another secures mercs (the merc team being the one that wins).

Not true @ 40. You will need both. Some people may have won without skulls, but they were simply playing a scrub team. No seasoned 5 man pre made will lose just because your team popped the first merc camp. On top of that, a team with a good specialist can wreck mercs, even knight/Golem combos.