WoD Beta Demonology Discussion

[Nerraw]

New. The old one did something to the Doomguard iirc. Was useless with the Servitude talent, and pretty shite anyway.

The old one reduced the doomguard and infernal cooldowns by 8 minutes.

[Lucidious]

Little off topic and a bit more pvp related but has anyone tested drain life damage/fury generation compared to shadow bolt? To see if the ability is actually worth taking or not.

[Archmage Arugal]

If Drain Life is better than Shadowbolt for...anything really, it won't be staying that way for long

[Lucidious]

If Drain Life is better than Shadowbolt for...anything really, it won't be staying that way for long

Shadow bolt just seems sooo slow to cast in pvp. Just try it with a warrior,monk, or rogue training you. And the sad part is when you actually get it off and it hits for 20k or a 40k crit average. I'm still scratching my head as to the logic behind its cast time. Must be a PvE thing...

[Baconeggcheese]

Shadow bolt just seems sooo slow to cast in pvp. Just try it with a warrior,monk, or rogue training you. And the sad part is when you actually get it off and it hits for 20k or a 40k crit average. I'm still scratching my head as to the logic behind its cast time. Must be a PvE thing...

Corruption, doom, hog errything. If they dispel it you get 100 fury for corruption / doom being dispelled which you can then put into ToC's etc.

[Nighthaven-]

IMO: Having very low damage nukes/ fillers as you cast a sheer quantity of them in most PvE circumstances feels/ is very wrong.
That is mainly because you don't really have any alternative synergistic secondary filler spell which you can maximize your potential from.
(Previous version of Chaos Bolt accomplished this/ any ability with a short cooldown that felt slightly more powerful than your filler, but nowhere near ultimate abilities)

HoG is your only hard-hitting ability (provided you're able to read numbers together).
Even Soul Fire is very weak by default as you really do got plenty of them.

Demos primary abilities are particularly terrible, since their only purpose is resource generation. Corruption does nothing numerically (very low %) and is almost obsolete for single target questing, and shadow bolt is plainly unrewarding.


In retrospective it can be solved by reducing maximum meta up-time by half (500 fury max) and making meta abilities more powerful. They will then serve in-between filler as more powerful nukes.
- We're not allowed to have powerful (relatively compared to other classes) resource spenders as Demo outside of DS because we can under 95% of circumstances spend resource spenders within procs unlike other classes.

[Erestron]

quick question on the side. if can someone explain how to use demonbolt correctly and should i use cataclysm in or outside of meta?

[ataraxia123]

I don't know what the old one was, but I got a book on the beta yesterday that changed locks' Enslave Demon into a different spell that allowed them to enslave any NPC. Is that new or old?

Sounds like you can't use Wrathguard with that spellbook, is it true?

I mean, if you have a pet active, does it mean you cannot use that skill?

[Nalistar]

I don't get why they want to keep the design that makes SF the best spell to spam in meta (by saving MC procs). I've always found counterintuitive that the spell of choice to do more damage in meta is one of the few spells that doesn't change from caster form. Wouldn't it be more in "theme" with the concept of turning into a demon to unleash your demonic fury that the most damage you can do comes from something you can cast only while being a demon? And iirc SF > ToC in meta wasn't always a thing (but I might be wrong on this)...

[Jessicka]

I don't get why they want to keep the design that makes SF the best spell to spam in meta (by saving MC procs). I've always found counterintuitive that the spell of choice to do more damage in meta is one of the few spells that doesn't change from caster form. Wouldn't it be more in "theme" with the concept of turning into a demon to unleash your demonic fury that the most damage you can do comes from something you can cast only while being a demon? And iirc SF > ToC in meta wasn't always a thing (but I might be wrong on this)...

It didn't take much Haste for SF to overtake ToC, but you're right at the start of the expansion it was the case. With current tuning though, SF simply cannot overtake ToC.

Several reasons why SF though:
Firstly, mobility. Getting 100% mobility baseline the moment you pop all your cooldowns is unquestionably overpowered.
PvP. Tied to mobility, but getting maximum bust from an uninterruptable Chaos Damage instant spammable ability... Yeah, no.
SF gets its own limited resource in Molten Core procs, saving them and managing them for Meta should be a good thing.
Spec needs a Fury dump, better for that to be ToC than Soul Fire.

[Nighthaven-]

What if...

Soul Fire takes the role of Shadow bolt.
- Shadow bolt requires procs. Shadow bolt is more limited proc-wise hard hitting single target nuke in caster form.

Shadow bolt becomes Shadow bolt volley in meta. WIN WIN

[Narwhalosh Whalescream]

What if...

Soul Fire takes the role of Shadow bolt.
- Shadow bolt requires procs. Shadow bolt is more limited proc-wise hard hitting single target nuke in caster form.

Shadow bolt becomes Shadow bolt volley in meta. WIN WIN

More spells to use for demonology aoe yay.

[Soulzar]

Yes. Cataclysm also will always benefit from your caster form Mastery bonus, just not the additional you gain from going Meta. Casting Dark Soul and using Cataclysm in caster and then Meta do basically identical damage. So it's likely still worth using the 1 minute Dark Soul sync up, it's just not as ridiculous as it was.

edit: The good thing with this now is that there's also some flexibility. You can drop a Corruption Cataclysm on a shorter duration AoE and for a large amount of Fury then Meta burn for the remaining 7.5 seconds (assuming fight mechanics line up) or you can drop an AoE Doom as a large Fury consumer for longer AoE/cleaving without having the impact damage being drastically different and skewing things.

The situations where you would want the AoE Corruption may be less common due to needing to use 2.5 seconds of your Dark Soul in caster form to do it but at least it is an option now for shorter lived AoE packs.

Did anyone check out the 2pc and 4pc t17 set bonuses? 2pc looks like a good bonus and the 4pc looks really cool, but it's vague so I'm very curious as to what it does. A 50% chance on 3 charges of HoG makes it seem like it should be proccing a lot so the effect probably isn't too high in damage, but it should add up.

2pc:
Hand of Gul'dan now has 1 additional maximum charge, and Corruption has a 10% chance to generate 1 charge of Hand of Gul'dan when dealing damage.

4pc:
Hand of Gul'dan has a 50% chance empower your inner demon, temporarily bringing your Metamorphosis form out even while you are not transformed.

With the Tier 17 procs, non Meta Cata could an interesting option for shorter AoE than MetaCata which would be superior for sustained. Drop your HoG Shadowflame stacks and multiple Corruptions with an opening Cata and use the tier procs to Chaos Wave to victory. Or right, likely wont have the Fury income from a few corruptions and Shadowflames to take advantage of multiple 2pT17 procs while inside Meta... :/

The tier bonus also are a good indication that we are intended to be casting more SB than SF in caster form.

[Deleted]

More spells to use for demonology aoe yay.

At least it would be something to actually use instead of just activate and stand around in melee. Demo AoE is not only clunky to use, because it is a mess to set up and get going, it's also not really sustainable and feels pretty boring.

So instead of activating your shit, standing in melee and go back to single target, you would activate your shit and cast something to actually do aoe damage. They could then, in return, lower the damage of the rest of your shit, so you wouldn't be as dependent on all of your shit being ready at the same time.

[Zevoa]

at least it would be something to actually use instead of just activate and stand around in melee. Demo aoe is not only clunky to use, because it is a mess to set up and get going, it's also not really sustainable and feels pretty boring.

So instead of activating your shit, standing in melee and go back to single target, you would activate your shit and cast something to actually do aoe damage. They could then, in return, lower the damage of the rest of your shit, so you wouldn't be as dependent on all of your shit being ready at the same time.

no thank you.

[Xorn]

New. The old one did something to the Doomguard iirc. Was useless with the Servitude talent, and pretty shite anyway.

The new one is still useless with the Sevitude talent as enslaved pets replace our main pet.

In fact, now it's useless with both Servitude AND Supremacy. One step forward two steps back.

[ataraxia123]

The new one is still useless with the Sevitude talent as enslaved pets replace our main pet.

In fact, now it's useless with both Servitude AND Supremacy. One step forward two steps back.

Cool, changes for the worse
Hope they revamp it soon

[Alarinth]

The new one is still useless with the Sevitude talent as enslaved pets replace our main pet.

In fact, now it's useless with both Servitude AND Supremacy. One step forward two steps back.

I don't know what the old one was, but I got a book on the beta yesterday that changed locks' Enslave Demon into a different spell that allowed them to enslave any NPC. Is that new or old?

Err. Am I the only one that goes "O_O" at "any NPC"? If that is the case, you're basically saying you refuse to believe our Observer, Shivarra etc is weaker than "any NPC" on the isle. I'm very excited about seeing this!

[Deleted]

Compared to the other three Grimoires, Grimoire of Synergy is simply not exciting enough.

I suggest that it be replaced by something more exciting, like say a Grimoire that surrounds the Warlock with a permanent swarm of Imps, or even a Grimoire that allows the Warlock to summon a Pit Lord for 15 minutes.

Merged with the appropriate topic.

[Deleted]

I think Grimoire of Synergy is awesome. Gives you another proc to work with. It's kind of an exact copy of our T16 2pc.