WoD Beta Demonology Discussion

[Santoisms]

Anyone having mana problems with demo?

I'm finding I oom constantly. It's not preventing me from doing competitive dmg, but I feel like I'm just life tapping all the time on my premade 100.

You're not alone. I am going OOM consistently as well in Demo, it's due to Soul Fire still having an insane mana cost of 24k per. Plus since you are using Imp Swarm again + 3 Gul'dan charges you are getting more Molten Cores.

[Mammon]

Anyone having mana problems with demo?

I'm finding I oom constantly. It's not preventing me from doing competitive dmg, but I feel like I'm just life tapping all the time on my premade 100.

Isn't that a problem Demo also had back at the start of MoP and later gear fixed it? At least I remember Life Tapping a lot in T14.

[Baconeggcheese]

You're not alone. I am going OOM consistently as well in Demo, it's due to Soul Fire still having an insane mana cost of 24k per. Plus since you are using Imp Swarm again + 3 Gul'dan charges you are getting more Molten Cores.

the cost is halved with MC, meaning its only 12k. You can very easily and quickly oom casting nothing but HoG and SB.

Isn't that a problem Demo also had back at the start of MoP and later gear fixed it? At least I remember Life Tapping a lot in T14.

I wouldn't know, I pretty much played nothing but aff during T14.

The only thing gear really does is give us more mana back per life tap which is great, but I'm ooming ludicrously fast. Like... once I oom the first time I life tap cast a few spells and I'm oom again. Gotta life tap several times in a row if I don't wanna cast it every few spells.

[Santoisms]

Isn't that a problem Demo also had back at the start of MoP and later gear fixed it? At least I remember Life Tapping a lot in T14.

Yes. Very similar to Demo T14. Imp Swarm being a DPS increase again, especially with it being used faster due to Glyph of Dark Soul, the main cause is the Soul Fire spending. If we're capped at 165k mana, that's 13 SF's-ish without Life Tap. They need to half the cost of Soul Fire imo.

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the cost is halved with MC, meaning its only 12k. You can very easily and quickly oom casting nothing but HoG and SB.

Right, imo it needs to be halved, or 30% reduction. So maybe 18k or 9k with Molten Core. The mana cap is becoming more annoying.

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As well as the 2p T17 is an indirect nerf to Mana due to you casting more HoG and getting more SF procs. That's how I look at it anyway.

[Jessicka]

You shouldn't be using Soul Fire so much in Caster in the first place, nevermind enough to OOM.

[Baconeggcheese]

You shouldn't be using Soul Fire so much in Caster in the first place, nevermind enough to OOM.

If you cast demon bolt 3-4x per DS you pretty much never have fury to use on SF and because you have near 100% up time on HoG you pretty much always have excess MC procs.

So you use it all the time in caster form as things stand.

but again... Hog + Sb are enough to oom you faster than seems normal and they only cost 8k each.

[Mammon]

The only thing gear really does is give us more mana back per life tap which is great, but I'm ooming ludicrously fast. Like... once I oom the first time I life tap cast a few spells and I'm oom again. Gotta life tap several times in a row if I don't wanna cast it every few spells.

Haste also increases mana regen.

[Kashii]

You shouldn't be using Soul Fire so much in Caster in the first place, nevermind enough to OOM.

Sitting on so many MC Procs if you take Demonbolt and actually cast it more than once each Meta.

[Baconeggcheese]

Haste also increases mana regen.

and the speed at which you spend it. That mostly balances out.

[Mammon]

Yeah, didn't think about that detail.
But still, what you describe was also an early MoP problem. Not that I like the idea of depending on gear to play smoothly, but at least it is almost garanteed that later it will be beter, so... yay?

[Jessicka]

Sitting on so many MC Procs if you take Demonbolt and actually cast it more than once each Meta.

If you cast demon bolt 3-4x per DS you pretty much never have fury to use on SF and because you have near 100% up time on HoG you pretty much always have excess MC procs.

So you use it all the time in caster form as things stand.

but again... Hog + Sb are enough to oom you faster than seems normal and they only cost 8k each.

Right, so you're judging this based on Demonbolt and set bonuses being knowingly massively overtuned...

[venomRED]

Think Glyph of Life Pact will become req for Demo? Normally I can get by with intelligent Life Tapping and letting the healers know when it's coming, but if you're Tapping that much more, not sure how to balance if it's worth taking the glyph or not. Thinking maybe SL/SL would offset the slow incoming dmg.

[Brusalk]

Think Glyph of Life Pact will become req for Demo? Normally I can get by with intelligent Life Tapping and letting the healers know when it's coming, but if you're Tapping that much more, not sure how to balance if it's worth taking the glyph or not. Thinking maybe SL/SL would offset the slow incoming dmg.

At the moment you go OoM with the glyph, so no. Since it replaces Life Tap you just have to wait to generate enough mana. It's worse than normal life tap.

[Baconeggcheese]

Right, so you're judging this based on Demonbolt and set bonuses being knowingly massively overtuned...

... not as massively overtuned as you might think.

[Kashii]

Right, so you're judging this based on Demonbolt and set bonuses being knowingly massively overtuned...

Well Demonbolt talent exists, so you're saying that the ideal balance would have us casting Demonbolt once per Meta or just during some burst phase?

That would be crap game play.

[Jessicka]

Well Demonbolt talent exists, so you're saying that the ideal balance would have us casting Demonbolt once per Meta or just during some burst phase?

That would be crap game play.

Previous builds had us casting it twice for those reasons, and that intent was backed up with blue tweets.

[Baconeggcheese]

Previous builds had us casting it twice for those reasons, and that intent was backed up with blue tweets.

They can't nerf it much without it being pointless vs cataclysm, I'd be surprised if they find that balance.

I wouldn't be surprised if they like it this way since it basically takes up your entire fury dump.

[Deleted]

Maybe they should just change the scaling mechanism of the fury cost increase.
If its cost was for example [80 + 40^x] with x being the number of debuff stacks, the third one would already be quite expensive and probably not worth casting. That way they could keep a high spellpower coefficient so it can stand against cataclysm.
If they just lower its damage until we are back at two efficient casts per cycle, they will ultimately need to nerf cataclysm so demon bolt stays a viable option, watering down our level 100 talents alltogether and also affecting other specs.

edit: then again.. how do you explain exponential growth in a retard-proof tooltip.

[Nighthaven-]

"Deals lotser damage per cast"

[Jessicka]

They can't nerf it much without it being pointless vs cataclysm, I'd be surprised if they find that balance.

I wouldn't be surprised if they like it this way since it basically takes up your entire fury dump.

They can give Cataclysm different coefficients based on spec as well to balance the talents within the specs. They did that with Mage talents. I doubt they'd leave it, apparently it's causing issues in PvP and we know Demo can't be allowed to be viable for PvP. And if you're not using Glyph of Dark Soul, then blowing away all your Fury inside 8 seconds is really lame. In fact it's lame anyway.