WoD Beta Demonology Discussion

[Skayth]

I assume Warlocks will not have any overhaul and any of these spec specific issues won't be addressed for at least 6.0. - Sadly.
I also wish that Warlock talent's were not that: 'you have this one option for this fight for that spec' either.
I doubt we'll have resources dedicated to us to fix Warlock specific issues, so you'll have to push for what you can reach.

You realize how easy it is to fix the issue I am talking about, dont you? For example, lets just go with making Rain of Fire. Well, that is a straight swap for aoe. Then, it upgraded form? Well, rain of chaos sounds pretty good. We have the assets already for it in the form of Hand of Gul'dan, or the unused rain that Chaos wave used to do. Mark each rain aspect of the Upgraded form to this purple rain, and have it lay and forget about. There, done, till they want to actually make new things. A quick fix. Or another quick fix, have Hellfire/ immolation aura Targetable. Another quick fix.

Do we not want? It's not like that's even true right now. KJC effects AoE spells, making is awesome for Siegecrafter, AD effects AoE spells making it still useful on fights where there's like 1 phase of AoE burst if you want to use it for that. MF is just AoE, and just every minute. Fights don't work like that. It's shit. It should be 3 abilities that help in all circumstances, just like the alternatives.

yes, but he said make MF a passive for demo. So basically the Increased radius all over again. And we remember how that worked prior to its change.

[Jessicka]

yes, but he said make MF a passive for demo. So basically the Increased radius all over again. And we remember how that worked prior to its change.

Yeah, I think that lasted about 3 weeks in Cataclysm when it was also baseline.

I'd just be happy to see it gone altogether, a blank slate in it's place so we're not balanced around it in some weird theoretical situation that never actually happens that leads us to sucking in any normal situation. The row is 2 universal talents, and a talent ignored by 2 specs and taken by necessity for the third. Why not just have 3 universally useful talents?

[Nighthaven-]

It wasn't demo that was abusing passive MF, that was Destruction.

[Jessicka]

It wasn't demo that was abusing passive MF, that was Destruction.

In Cataclysm, it was only Demo that had it as a passive.

[Skayth]

Yeah, I think that lasted about 3 weeks in Cataclysm when it was also baseline.

I'd just be happy to see it gone altogether, a blank slate in it's place so we're not balanced around it in some weird theoretical situation that never actually happens that leads us to sucking in any normal situation. The row is 2 universal talents, and a talent ignored by 2 specs and taken by necessity for the third. Why not just have 3 universally useful talents?

Haha I completely agree with that. Mf has been a bane for a while (along with KJC) They fixed AV (to AD), which, even if it was just a lazy and easy change, is still better than the other 2. MF is currently only used by us, and no other spec ever specs it. KJC is currently used by the other 2 only. I still see KJC being the dominent one in WoD for the other 2 specs, and AD for us. Basically saying, our lvl 90 talents are completely shit.

But, for me, while we have had a few "QoL" changes, even if theytook some skill away, why are they not focusing on our aoe? Could it be sheer laziness and not wanting to do much for the Lock class? Yea, it could be. But, with mythic raiding, our lowered survivability, our lowered movement, and still they aim abilities at us, why are we the only class to need to be in melee in order to aoe. It makes no sense, with the way they are trying to make ranged. I do not know if we were overlooked, or they remember the backlash from last time they changed it.... which we only yelled back at simply because we had MF during those times, but with the current way of things, Demonology might be at the bottom of the list in aoe, as we are not compensated for our movement into melee and out.

It wasn't demo that was abusing passive MF, that was Destruction.

I abused the hell out of it during 5.2

[striderZA]

In Cataclysm, it was only Demo that had it as a passive.

Mannoroth's Fury existed in Cataclysm? Or am I missing something?

[Jessicka]

Mannoroth's Fury existed in Cataclysm? Or am I missing something?

It was called Cremation or Inferno, lasted for like 3-4 weeks before it was changed.

[Hellfury]

yes, but then that would push us into a single talent, which we do not want. We actually want to have some diversity.

totaly disagree, for demo there is no diversity in that row in 6.0

MF with passive radius would allow us to have a choise for cleave and AOE with MF, and another for single target with AV

[Zharradan]

i just want aoe drain life back =/ it was my favorite spell ever

[Hellfury]

i just want aoe drain life back =/ it was my favorite spell ever

something like that but without the life would be great for demo, since we are locked into melee for aoe, but sadly iam sure it wont ever happen they wont give us another button.

BUT thinking again MF could had been it.

[Nighthaven-]

Drain life can potentially be upgraded to Harvest Life in Meta and tuned properly.

[Soulzar]

I too would like to see Demo's AoE less melee focused, but the only way for that to happen is for Hellfire to go.. and I do not want to see that happen... so... melee it is..

[Hellfury]

1 idea for MF
MF: Hellfire can be cast at any target including self, or simply hellfire source its the pet not the warlock

Other idea for MF

MF: Replaces Hellfire, Drainlife becomes Corrupt Soul(or w/e name),
Caster: Hits all targets in a cone 40y for X%increase damage no longer heals the warlock, channel
Meta: Hits all targets in a cone for 40y for X increased damage, no longer heals the warlock, aura

[Skayth]

I too would like to see Demo's AoE less melee focused, but the only way for that to happen is for Hellfire to go.. and I do not want to see that happen... so... melee it is..

And that is the reason we are in this predicament.

In mop beta, they had replaced with Rain of Fire. Which makes sense, since they did not want us in melee. But, since we had that 500% increase to hellfire through MF (then nerfed to 300%), we still had a good way to do aoe, without going into melee. That was the reason most people saved it. Nostalgia and the ORIGINAL Mf. Now we dont have the Mf. Now your soul reason to save it is because of Nostalgia, and its a shitty spell at that. Hellfire does not do any more damage than any other aoe, rather it does less, and we lose health for it. Stop defending such a worthless spell, because it reminds you of the good old days that was actually useful to kill yourself and save yourself from a repair bill in a wipe.

They can give me Shadowbolt Volley and id be so very happy.

[Jessicka]

Shadow Bolt Volley would be amazing. I love Hellfire/Immolation conceptionally, but it just isn't practical anymore.

Just a note the "change" to aoe was just of phrasing from radius to area, it didn't actually change anything.

[Deleted]

well, they could change it so that your target starts to immolate, doing the dmg that hellfire/immolation aura does now but at a distance and only 1 immolate target at a time. the idea of having to be in melee range as a ranged dps doesnt make much sense to me, i think they need to make it a ranged aoe.

[Soulzar]

And that is the reason we are in this predicament.

In mop beta, they had replaced with Rain of Fire. Which makes sense, since they did not want us in melee. But, since we had that 500% increase to hellfire through MF (then nerfed to 300%), we still had a good way to do aoe, without going into melee. That was the reason most people saved it. Nostalgia and the ORIGINAL Mf. Now we dont have the Mf. Now your soul reason to save it is because of Nostalgia, and its a shitty spell at that. Hellfire does not do any more damage than any other aoe, rather it does less, and we lose health for it. Stop defending such a worthless spell, because it reminds you of the good old days that was actually useful to kill yourself and save yourself from a repair bill in a wipe.

They can give me Shadowbolt Volley and id be so very happy.

My warm fuzzies of Meta Immolation Aura IWIN has little to do with Vanilla Hellfire durability savings, Shadowbolt Volley is something I can get on board with.

[Skayth]

My warm fuzzies of Meta Immolation Aura IWIN has little to do with Vanilla Hellfire durability savings, Shadowbolt Volley is something I can get on board with.

if Immolation Aura is your warm and Fuzzy feelings core, then you realize there is no point to it, since any aoe can take its place as long as Non channeled and Instant. Even the visual is the same vanilla visual for Hellfire. The reason it is the IWIN button, in any form of aoe, is because we pack it on with both Fel Guard Felstorms and now the MF. It was fine during ToT and prior, but then they nerfed it and then MF. Really, now it is, is CD stacking.

So shadowbolt volley is something most people can get on board with, specially since we have been wanting it since Vanilla. We got it in WoTLK beta, but was taken away... "feeling it was to op". But, it can easily be balanced now. Could be worked into a channel. And then for the Meta Upgrade, Doombolt Volley, instant and nonchanneled for 8 seconds. Visually, I want to be that badass demon shotgunning those bolts out while still throwing out tocs.

[DesireKT]

if Immolation Aura is your warm and Fuzzy feelings core, then you realize there is no point to it, since any aoe can take its place as long as Non channeled and Instant. Even the visual is the same vanilla visual for Hellfire. The reason it is the IWIN button, in any form of aoe, is because we pack it on with both Fel Guard Felstorms and now the MF. It was fine during ToT and prior, but then they nerfed it and then MF. Really, now it is, is CD stacking.

So shadowbolt volley is something most people can get on board with, specially since we have been wanting it since Vanilla. We got it in WoTLK beta, but was taken away... "feeling it was to op". But, it can easily be balanced now. Could be worked into a channel. And then for the Meta Upgrade, Doombolt Volley, instant and nonchanneled for 8 seconds. Visually, I want to be that badass demon shotgunning those bolts out while still throwing out tocs.

Fire and Brimstone copy much?

[Mokrengar]

MF radius as a passive for hellfire/IA, and perhaps change the MF talent to affect only HoG/CW? Would retain the flavor of hellfire while making it slightly more practical; also, makes MF a fairly attractive talent once again.

Edit: let us not forget the absurdity of carrion swarm with the old MF- cone interrupt & knockback(if it was desired) with a massive radius was a little much.