I think i finally understand now

[Apexis]

I am not following the logic here, if there is any. You talk about why so many hate the LFR, but don't actually explain why that is, will get back to that one.

Then you go off about normal and then having to grind out heroic content boss's. If you are falling asleep at the keyboard because you done the LFR, normal, and heroic of the same content. That does not equate into why people hate doing the LFR. If you are doing the any raiding for the sole purpose of gear and not for the content, then sir you completely miss the really intention of raiding. Beat the boss for the first time will always and above be head over heals better than any gear your going to receive. Gear is only good until the next content comes out. Killing the boss for the first time is something that is forever remembered. I have sat in many of a vent over the year listening to those that conquer the boss or boss's, I never here them talk about the gear first, that is always second to the first kill and it does not matter if your the number one guild in the world or the ten thousandth. That feeling live with you forever and you remember those that were in the group when that happened.

Truly, I wish I was good enough to raid on the heroic level, I truly think I would enjoy it. I love raiding most for the pure joy of killing the boss or conquering the entire content. Gear is nice, but before transmog, it was only good until the next tier of content came out and you very saw it again. Now it is not so bad since you can transmog, only you might of got the gear when it was current, but in the next xpac the gear is always easier for those that could not get in to obtain it, so in essence gear really does not matter, when you look at it in the context. Killing the boss or the level of content will always mean way more to those that don't hunt gear the hunt the next savage in their way.

[Barnabas]

Gear is just a means to an end for me. The type of players I've raided with that were in it just for that ended up getting kicked at some point or leaving on their own when they didn't get their way with loot. While at the same time it was hilarious. It was also kinda sad knowing people have such petty motivation to raid. If you don't enjoy the challenge then why not just get a spot in a sales run? You don't have to worry about wiping and even if it does happen you'll still get loot, titles etc. Then you free up the spot you are taking to someone who actually is having fun.

[Apexis]

Gear is just a means to an end for me. The type of players I've raided with that were in it just for that ended up getting kicked at some point or leaving on their own when they didn't get their way with loot. While at the same time it was hilarious. It was also kinda sad knowing people have such petty motivation to raid. If you don't enjoy the challenge then why not just get a spot in a sales run? You don't have to worry about wiping and even if it does happen you'll still get loot, titles etc. Then you free up the spot you are taking to someone who actually is having fun.

I seem so bad right now, far worse than it used to be, it been enough for me to stop, check myself and tell raid leader I am leaving because of this constant need for gear and not putting the effort into actually killing the boss. I stop raiding at the beginning of MoP, I went through so many guilds at the beginning it felt worse than actually pugging a raid most weeks. I am going to try to do better this time around to find a decent group to get myself up to a high enough level to compete for better spots and guilds. If I don't cut it, then I will just fall back and try to find a decent pug from time to time and do the LFR on the weeks I cannot seem to find a run. But if I keep running into the same level of pettiness, I'll just pvp instead, its going to be the same looking gear anyway, just not as fun getting it.

[RoKPaNda]

Feeling forced to do anything, whether it's forced to do heroics to keep playing with your guild, or forced to do LFR because your guild is abusive, it sucks. I can relate with the OP somewhat. When I was in a cutting edge guild it was actually fun, switching to a casual guild trying to be more than a casual guild was an absolute nightmare. That's what lead to me quitting WoW originally.

Though it's odd, now that I'm back to playing WoW I'm quite content being a casual scrubcake and only raiding Flex. Ran into one of the people that I used to raid hardcore with while I was tanking Flex and they invited me back to join their heroic raiding guild. I can honestly say I wasn't even remotely interested.

[Deleted]

Actually there is, effort is effort and generally someone who puts their full effort into most things will succeed. Not saying those who don't in wow won't but its generally a character trait that extends to other aspects of their life.

*facepalm*

[clevin]

I know exactly how you feel op.
Trying the next step up in difficulty when you have no interest in it is incredibly boring. It leads to me being burnt out crazy fast but I don't wanna leave the guild and friends, y'know? It's a weird situation that makes playing this video game feel more like a chore.

So as I told OP... Grow a spine. You ,OP and others refuse to act like adults and stand up for yourselves, so that's your issue and no one else's.

[Dormie]

If you're sitting there wiping on the same boss, and then say you're only half paying attention, guess why you're wiping.

[anaxie]

No offense but people who arent knee deep in heroics or done at this point should stay in normals. They are wasting their time.

[Artorius]

Getting loot just to feel stronger is something I can't even imagine... It's just pixels. Seriously, loot is needed to do the game's content, if you play to get loot than you're doing something wrong...

[crakerjack]

I'll agree that heroic raiding is boring when you're constantly wiping... but maybe you should find a guild that's more serious. I loved heroic raiding, mainly because there wasn't constant wiping. For the first couple weeks there was, but eventually we got all the bosses on farm and all that was left to do was gear us all out. IMO, there shouldn't be more than 5 wipes per boss on heroic, hell there shouldn't even be more than 3. Some mistake my attitude as cocky, but it really isn't. Fights are scripted... it's not like the boss will start casting some AoE fireball if his tooltip says he doesn't. Before you even engage the boss, you should know what abilities he'll use and during what phase he'll use them. Sure the order of which the boss uses his abilities will vary, but you always have to be prepared. I'd take back my view if a boss worked with 30+ mechanics and you'd never really know what to expect, but most bosses don't have more than 4 mechanics per phase, which is like facing a person in arena who uses 4 out of his 40+ abilities.

If it didn't seem easy enough then, there's addons that tell you when he'll specifically use an ability, so to say you weren't prepared is an absolute lie. I loved raiding, but I think what really made me hate it was when I wasn't in a top 100 guild. Guilds that couldn't comprehend what a scripted fight really irked me. I'd ask people if they were paying attention to their DBM or if they even read up on the fight... most would reply out of hostility thinking I was trying to insult them. "Of course I was, I just couldn't move out of the way in time" which just contradicts that they were even paying attention to DBM. Most raiders used excuses as to why they're messing up, but in my eyes, I just saw bad players pretending they're good. IMO raiding isn't hard. I'm not saying it isn't fun, it really is... but when you play with people that think it's challenging and continue to mess up, it gets really irritating. It became so irritating that I'd whisper people between wipes asking why there even here when their dps isn't good and they're one of the first ones dying in the encounter.

[Binko]

I remember when I first tried raiding and discovered that there are some people who are willing to spend hours and hours wiping on a boss. My rule of thumb used to be three wipes on the same boss and we're done. People get tired and frustrated and you get diminishing returns.

But the fanatical few who want to "keep trying" tend to be the ones in charge. So I don't do organized raids any longer.

My preference would be for an improved version of LFR that requires a certain proving grounds achievement and makes it easier to boot non-performing players.

[Tech Priest Bojangles]

So as I told OP... Grow a spine. You ,OP and others refuse to act like adults and stand up for yourselves, so that's your issue and no one else's.

So what is he supposed to do?
-Ask his guild to not even try heroic raiding and just stay in normals? I doubt the entire guild would make that change to accommodate him.
-Find a new guild? That could mean leaving his friends behind, switching guilds, and maybe even servers.
-Just suck it up and keep raiding even though it's not even fun and to certain degree, exhausting? Like a said it's gonna burn him out crazy fast.

I'm not real sure what you're suggesting when you say "Grow a spine."

[Hoffafiles]

I stopped raiding in Wrath, the obligation to log on to raid, and no time to do anything else in the game but raid, caused me to quit. Once LFR came along, I loved the idea of just killing one boss, and leaving, or if I had the time, stay to complete the wing. The main reason I wanted raiding gear is so I could be more efficient in the things I wanted to do outside of "raiding". I feel LFR kind of equates to farming for profession mats, you can just go on auto pilot and relax, and take your mind off of real life problems.

I get the feeling of doing the challenging content, it does feel rewarding. I remember those days fondly, but it's just not for me anymore.

Guess I will be in my dungeon blues come WoD lol