1. #5281
    Seriously, I feel so bad for Teddy.. we gave him so much crap for that combat video, which he did in just a couple of months with no money.

    But hey, UMA2 will cure everything.

  2. #5282
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    Basically my point was just made by Azrile there. You guys are making the exact same comedy of errors that ToA did. You guys are a small time rinky-dink outfit that won't be taken serious by real game dev companies. The KS money is gone and you won't be using fan money (not that you'd get much more) and so you plan on getting this backed by a real company?

    The 'image' this company has is beyond repair by using words to talk about what you 'plan' to do. Until a REAL playable version of the game comes out it is just that, words. That gameplay crap from January was the most tragic thing I've seen in some time, and I saw the 'combat' demo video for ToA.
    To be clear -- The damaged image is GreedMonger, not MMOI. MMOI acquired the brand, and we hope to show through releases that we're making progress. You are correct though, that pretty much everything is just 'talk' at this point. I wish I had more answers. All I can say is behind the scenes we're working. I really do look forward to the day where you can say 'Hey, for what it's worth, you guys really did show us something.' Whether or not you like it or hate it, I can't wait for that day.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'll have you know that I have proposed a workaround for our issue with Atavism in regards to U5 compatibility, and we're working on getting something together. I understand your skepticism, but give me some time to get things together. Then, if we fail, you'll have carte blache in regards to ripping me a new one. Deal?

  3. #5283
    Quote Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
    The papers have been filed for MMOI from me.
    So, when James was talking about being the CEO of MMOI and having a board of directors? just a little fib? You know he was saying that to reassure people that Jason was not in control anymore... small fib, huh. Amazong how many small fibs he has made to keep this thing from blowing up years ago...

    Come on.. and let me guess.. you have a 5-man social media team already in place.

    And we come back to ToA. You are in the exact same situation. You have very little code done, you have an IP that has so much negativity wrapped around it that it is less than zero at this point. At this point, both GreedMonger and ToA would be better off if you just completely turned off the lights, moved next door and started over with a new game and fake names.

    If you ask any competent developer if they would take GM or ToA for free, they would all say no. ( although to be honest, I would take GM just because of some of the software licenses Jason bought would be useful for other games). At this point, even if a real dev team made either game exactly how is was described 3 years ago, your entire launch and marketing would be nothing except talking about the crap that happened in the past.

  4. #5284
    Titan draykorinee's Avatar
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    For me GM is DoA, I really wanted to back it in the KS but never did, now, I can't see me going anywhere near it. Good luck, you're going to seriously need it.

  5. #5285
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    So, when James was talking about being the CEO of MMOI and having a board of directors? just a little fib? You know he was saying that to reassure people that Jason was not in control anymore... small fib, huh. Amazong how many small fibs he has made to keep this thing from blowing up years ago...

    Come on.. and let me guess.. you have a 5-man social media team already in place.

    And we come back to ToA. You are in the exact same situation. You have very little code done, you have an IP that has so much negativity wrapped around it that it is less than zero at this point. At this point, both GreedMonger and ToA would be better off if you just completely turned off the lights, moved next door and started over with a new game and fake names.

    If you ask any competent developer if they would take GM or ToA for free, they would all say no. ( although to be honest, I would take GM just because of some of the software licenses Jason bought would be useful for other games). At this point, even if a real dev team made either game exactly how is was described 3 years ago, your entire launch and marketing would be nothing except talking about the crap that happened in the past.
    Bro bro bro, they are going to have MORE than 1 programmer so that social media team will be 10 people strong! Heh so this jrhager guy is the CEO of a company that isn't even officially formed yet (paperwork all done and stuff). Good luck MMOI and GM. You will need it.

  6. #5286
    No - Not entirely. We were going to file when things were getting more serious, but then people got poached, and it made no sense to put up a vapor company at that point, especially since Jason offered James a job at EGC. Remember - If you're actively looking for controversy, you're gonna find it hints of it somewhere.

    Again - You're looking at it from the wrong angle. James is already wrapped up in it. He's not escaping it. It's not about money. This is about getting something out. You're absolutely free to hate it. You don't have to like us. I'd like to think that we at least get a *little* credit for not abandoning the backers, and taking the heat and moving forward. It's like one hand of the argument you blame us for making a crap game, and on the other hand you blame us for sticking around. Which is it? Would you rather we walk away and leave everybody empty-handed? I personally would appreciate a crap game made to the best of somebody's abilities over nothing because somebody walked away when it became difficult. I suppose that's a matter of personal perception.

    Also - No. there's no 'social media team.' It's James and me, actively listening to what people are saying, taking the constructive parts, and moving forward.

    A rebrand is also in the future. What has to happen first, is we need to differentiate ourselves in our ethic. Then, when we've satisfied the community's curiosity/scrutiny, then we can work on either rebuilding the GM name, or rebranding to avoid any temporal confusion.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    For me GM is DoA, I really wanted to back it in the KS but never did, now, I can't see me going anywhere near it. Good luck, you're going to seriously need it.
    Thanks for the luck. Even if it may be passive-aggressive. I'll still take it! :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    Bro bro bro, they are going to have MORE than 1 programmer so that social media team will be 10 people strong! Heh so this jrhager guy is the CEO of a company that isn't even officially formed yet (paperwork all done and stuff). Good luck MMOI and GM. You will need it.
    I appreciate the positive thoughts! ;-)

  7. #5287
    Quote Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
    To be clear -- The damaged image is GreedMonger, not MMOI. MMOI acquired the brand.

    I'll have you know that I have proposed a workaround for our issue with Atavism in regards to U5 compatibility, and we're working on getting something together. I understand your skepticism, but give me some time to get things together. Then, if we fail, you'll have carte blache in regards to ripping me a new one. Deal?
    Killing me man. MMOI is a company that doesn´t even exist yet. It was created for GreedMonger. People are not that stupid to think everything is magically sunshine because you started a new company.

    Atavism will never be able to make a MMORPG, let alone one that is as intensive as your plot/housing system. Did you even watch your own video? Honestly, you are falling into the same mistakes as Jason. You don´t have the tech background to understand this stuff, so you are just listening to James talk about some magic stuff that is going to fix it all. It isn´t. GreedMonger would struggle with networking even if it was built by Blizzard, it is brutally hard on the networking side of things. Throw in the fact that you are using an engine not built for MMORPGs and using a hacked mmorpg kit that has never actually produced a MMORPG and still has not even added core MMORPG features (coming soon! lol). I would never even start using something like Atavism unilt he devs have all the required features in the kit and have their own MMORPG running with 200 concurrents.

    I'd like to think that we at least get a *little* credit for not abandoning the backers, and taking the heat and moving forward.

    You want credit for something you haven´t done yet? You haven´t taken any heat, James made a post and blamed everything on Jason. You say that everything is fresh as roses because you paid $35 to register a new company. i haven´t seen you are James explain why he spent 3 years buying all that crap and wasting all the KS money. It was James that wasted the KS money, not Jason. And you glossed over the part where James was telling backers that he already was CEO of MMOI and Jason was taken a back seat.

    I doubt anything gets accomplished with the game, this was more about James not wanting to give all that software back to Jason. Oh, he will mess around and maybe make another horrible video, but mostly you are going to see what you are seeing now. Two guys running around the internet trying to say ´give us a chance, Jason was the bad guy, not us´..

    and please.. for the love of God stop using terms like ´branding´ until you actually make a game. GreedMonger is that January video, nothing more.
    Last edited by Azrile; 2015-04-08 at 09:15 AM.

  8. #5288
    Quote Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
    No - Not entirely. We were going to file when things were getting more serious, but then people got poached, and it made no sense to put up a vapor company at that point
    So it is okay to make the vapor company now? Cool!

  9. #5289
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    Killing me man. MMOI is a company that doesn´t even exist yet. It was created for GreedMonger. People are not that stupid to think everything is magically sunshine because you started a new company.

    Atavism will never be able to make a MMORPG, let alone one that is as intensive as your plot/housing system. Did you even watch your own video? Honestly, you are falling into the same mistakes as Jason. You don´t have the tech background to understand this stuff, so you are just listening to James talk about some magic stuff that is going to fix it all. It isn´t. GreedMonger would struggle with networking even if it was built by Blizzard, it is brutally hard on the networking side of things. Throw in the fact that you are using an engine not built for MMORPGs and using a hacked mmorpg kit that has never actually produced a MMORPG and still has not even added core MMORPG features (coming soon! lol). I would never even start using something like Atavism unilt he devs have all the required features in the kit and have their own MMORPG running with 200 concurrents.
    I never insinuated people were stupid, and I never insinuated that it would be 'sunshine.' Far from it. Again, that's not my concern. My concern is doing what we can to honor the backers, and getting something in their hands. I'm working very closely with some contacts that I have, that are going through the code and letting me know where our bottlenecks are, and what we need to change/improve to get things going. Rest assured, as much as I trust and admire James, I don't take ANYBODY's word completely. I want hard data - I want numbers that mean something. If you have an idea on how GM can be made better, I'm all ears. Heck, wouldn't it be nice to work towards getting a better game into peoples' hands?

    This is why we're in a holding pattern. If I decide that something's not working, then we're going to change it. It's really that simple. My hope is that people will see that we're trying to change, and support us in doing so. I'd like to think that the more you get to know me, the more you'll realize that I'm not some scammer or idiot jumping into something stupidly. I'm fighting an uphill battle to ensure that people get a product.

    Now, from a business perspective, I get assets. Assets that are of value. Assets that can be used to produce *other* projects, that will START from a good place. However, our commitment as it stands right now, will be Greed Monger -- Whether it succeeds or fails. Any good businessman has a backup plan. If GM fails, then we will learn from what happened, and move on. However, moving on (to me) is NOT abandoning something.

    We'll finish it, and if it flops; it flops. Even after that, we'll have code we can reuse. We'll have assets and anims amassed. We'll have artwork and the like. Positioning is key. Honesty is paramount. I'm certainly not a saint, and I certainly don't run a charity. What I do espouse, are principles. I will not abandon this IP. It will succeed or fail, and then we'll move on. There are other projects that are shelved that can be developed the moment that GM concludes. I gave my word that we would do EVERYTHING in our power to honor these backers, and push forward, and I intend on doing so.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    So it is okay to make the vapor company now? Cool!
    See, now we're just stooping to flippant attacks. I'd like to think that I've been very forthright and honest when it pertains to this. I would hope that a bit of civility could be used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    and please.. for the love of God stop using terms like ´branding´ until you actually make a game. GreedMonger is that January video, nothing more.
    I'll just leave this here:

    Branding: 'The process involved in creating a unique name and image for a product in the consumers' mind, mainly through advertising campaigns with a consistent theme. Branding aims to establish a significant and differentiated presence in the market that attracts and retains loyal customers.'

    You'll have to excuse me -- I think the GM 'brand' is a lot more comprehensive than a video. I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree. ;-)

  10. #5290
    You are right, the GM 'brand' is 3 years of failures and 1 god awful video. After seeing almost a year's worth of Forged Chaos do shit tons of talking while showing nothing this really does not surprise me here. Words are great, but how about you show us something. Right now from what I understand your 'brand' is 2 people, one that produced a terrible video and the other is the 'social media' team. There is a company that is being created with no financial backing that is going to try and get people on board to make this game? *shrugs* I have no horse in this race but I'll enjoy watching this one all the same.

    "Branding: 'The process involved in creating a unique name and image for a product in the consumers' mind, mainly through advertising campaigns with a consistent theme. Branding aims to establish a significant and differentiated presence in the market that attracts and retains loyal customers." Umm yes there is a unique image that comes to mind when people talk about GM. What is there to advertise? You can't establish a presence in a market when you aren't even CLOSE to getting a game out. Ther are no 'customers' because you have nothing to sell them.

  11. #5291
    well yeah, you can´t just come right out and say that GreedMonger is dead right after you take it over. Give it 3-6 months of forum posts and some sincere anguish.. gather some sympathy for the brave and honorable uphill battle you fought trying to save a tarnished GreedMonger. That way when you start over with GameX that is built with all of the assets the backers of the Geedmonger Kickstarter paid for, you can do so with a clear conscious.

    Nobody would devote time and money into a game with GreedMongers reputation unless all that time and money is easily transfered to the real project later on.

    New Poll ladies and Gentleman. In what Month will MMOI announce their new project. I am taking 4 months from now.. so that would be August. I still have June as the month when Brax finally announces the end of ToA.

  12. #5292
    Azrile, if I didn't know better I'd feel like I'm talking to Brax 2.0

    These guys should write a book on how to make a game company that has a 'brand'.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    well yeah, you can´t just come right out and say that GreedMonger is dead right after you take it over. Give it 3-6 months of forum posts and some sincere anguish.. gather some sympathy for the brave and honorable uphill battle you fought trying to save a tarnished GreedMonger. That way when you start over with GameX that is built with all of the assets the backers of the Geedmonger Kickstarter paid for, you can do so with a clear conscious.

    Nobody would devote time and money into a game with GreedMongers reputation unless all that time and money is easily transfered to the real project later on.

    New Poll ladies and Gentleman. In what Month will MMOI announce their new project. I am taking 4 months from now.. so that would be August. I still have June as the month when Brax finally announces the end of ToA.
    MMOI will announce the new project: Trials of Ascension~GreedMonger. A project that has a significant brand presence and other fancy sounding business words that don't apply because there is no game.

  13. #5293
    Potential customers are customers in that sense. The 'image' of GM is the website, the forums, etc. I'm just being tactical when referencing it. I'm not sure why it's become such a sticking point...

  14. #5294
    Quote Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post

    Branding: 'The process involved in creating a unique name and image for a product in the consumers' mind
    You missed my point. I know what branding is... do you know what a product is? You do not have a product, so it is silly to talk about branding it.

  15. #5295
    Titan draykorinee's Avatar
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    It reminds me of the email I got the other week giving me a free copy of a new zombie MMO from the infestation guys, they basically want to 'rebrand' themselves away from the nightmare that was that development and team. It won't work, once something is toxic in the gaming world it is very hard to recover.

  16. #5296
    Quote Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
    Potential customers are customers in that sense. The 'image' of GM is the website, the forums, etc. I'm just being tactical when referencing it. I'm not sure why it's become such a sticking point...
    Oh I KNOW what image GM invokes when I think about it. 3 years of failures and the waste of 100k in KS money. A video after 3 years of 'work' on the game that is one of the worst things I've ever seen as far as gaming is concerned. The image of GM is a failed game with a forum/website. Wooo.

  17. #5297
    Quote Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
    The 'image' of GM is the website
    You mean the ´image´ of the priest and the elf on the website? Yeah, Unity Asset Store $25 each I believe. I think the hog-man is $35.

    Here, I will help you out if you want to sue Unity for stealing the copyright on your branding

    Elf Girl $10
    https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/4286

    Your amazing branding.. you didn´t even bother to use your own render... nope, just stole the picture directly from the artist.

    Here is pig head $40
    https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/3770

    Again, didn´t even bother to do your own render, just stole it from the artist and put it on your website for branding.

    And here is the Priest also $40

    https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/2259

    But you are in luck, those last two were done by the same artist, so when you sue them for copyright infringement, you only need to sue two people.

    Is that branding? Can you please define it again?
    Last edited by Azrile; 2015-04-08 at 09:46 AM.

  18. #5298
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    You missed my point. I know what branding is... do you know what a product is? You do not have a product, so it is silly to talk about branding it.
    We do have a product. The product just isn't finished. Big difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    It reminds me of the email I got the other week giving me a free copy of a new zombie MMO from the infestation guys, they basically want to 'rebrand' themselves away from the nightmare that was that development and team. It won't work, once something is toxic in the gaming world it is very hard to recover.
    It's a far different story when it's a different company with a different structure moving forward. You're actually referring to The War Z, right? Which had to change their name? Sergei Titov is the leader of that pack, and I called him out as well. I'd hope you can see the differences between these two scenarios... If not, I'd be more than happy to point them out.

    Final thoughts:
    I'm noticing a disturbing trend of things devolving into more ad hominem-style remarks. Look - I get where you guys are coming from. No amount of character judgements or snide remarks are going to help here. Can we dispense with the puffery, and stick to points? I'll be happy to answer any questions, and be as transparent as humanly possible. Also, I couldn't care less what you guys think of me. I couldn't care less about what you think my character is. That's not the point here. My point was to clarify key issues, and provide a plan moving forward. The 'peanut gallery' forum is not helpful, nor is it a constructive appropriation of time.

    It's almost as though you get a kick out of stirring the pot. After all, we *are* in the internet.

  19. #5299
    What exactly is there to be transparent about? How many people are working on this game RIGHT NOW? Who is backing this game? How long will you seek funds from other companies before shelving this project?

    I just don't get WHY you'd want this 'project' to be under your company/personal name. A 3 year project that has had its name drug through the mud and 100k in Kickstarter money basically being wasted isn't exactly the image I'd want to project.

  20. #5300
    Branding/Image also applies to public perception, which is the facet I'm referring to in this instance. It seems you're so bent on arguing, that you're willing to subvert an entire conversation to keep the pressure on. I'm not quite sure what you think you're doing, aside from maybe bolstering your ego by 'white knighting' the poor KS backers. You've misappropriated nearly every one of my points to near ludicrousness. I never said the 'art' was the image. But here you go, down the rabbit hole.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Right now, we have about 10 people of various backgrounds and various commitment levels, with more in the pipeline being vetted. I am backing this company at present. We will release this game no matter what. Whether it's taking a while because we're financing it ourselves, or with help from publishers or investors. This project will NOT get shelved. It WILL be released to our best efforts.

    We didn't *want* this project. I told James to run. After Interdiction Studios passed on it, we thought about it. We thought about all of the money that people have spent, and how much James worked on this project. I assumed the risk of acquiring a damaged IP so that we may have the tools to fix it, and after this release goes, the next project. Even if the game turns out to be a monumental failure, my hope is that people will *see* what we've done to correct the mistakes. At least then, people will see effort being made to fulfill the commitment.

    You're also exactly right about negative image. Which is why I'm focused on imaging and branding. This company is NOT responsible for wasting KS money - We haven't seen a dime of it. We haven't had our name drug through the mud - We're coming on to finish what was started incorrectly (in my opinion). I knew this wasn't going to be easy, but that's not why I do things. I don't choose the easy path. This was a perfect chance for us to use the attention of GM (however negative) to show people the changes, and to listen to the negative feedback to strengthen ourselves. We're in a great position from a QA standpoint; We've already got a pack of vicious naysayers that'll tear our game to shreds each release. My hope is that as updates continue, the list of qualms shrinks. All we can do is move forward, and see what happens.

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