1. #5321
    Warchief Fallen Angel's Avatar
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    What exactly is your intent as far as "giving the backers a game"? Is it just going to be playable? Is it going to be within the scope presented to the backers? What games have your developers worked on so we have an idea of their work?

    These are just a handful of questions that need to be taken into consideration when trying to instill some kind of acceptance into people, especially those who have frequented this thread. We've seen the same things come from the ToA crowd, and look where they are.

    What exactly is it that YOU do as far as GM is concerned?

  2. #5322
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    10 FPS would be worth, but I doubt it would run that low. The unreal engine has always been pretty darn solid and the new one is looking like it will continue that. OK a beast of a rig would be required but it'd run well IMO. Saying that didnt the previous unreal engine get released for general use not that long ago?

    If it is, may have to grab that and have a little prattle around in it.
    Yeah, Unreal is free now, which is probably the thing that forced Unity to make Unity Pro 5.0 free, which was like a Christmas present for me, complete surprise that saved me $1500.

    People do benchmarks all the time comparing Unity to Unreal. There really isn´t that much of a difference as far as what kinda FPS you can get with the exact same scene. I may be remembering it backwards, but Unity 4.0 vs Unreal, Unreal did better up until you started using more than one light source or something like that. The difference was never big enough to make me use it. For unreal, you need to know C++ which is ´real´ programming. Unity uses C# which is more like javascript and built for accomplishing things for games. That was always my reason for using Unity and Hero Engine ( HE uses it´s own script language that is similar to C#)

  3. #5323
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    I believe that the team was solid, and was mis-managed. That's my personal belief, and changes will be made should progress not continue.

    You sound exactly like Jason from 2012. You think leadership and team-building is enough? it isn´t. This is computer programming, not marketing. You do not know enough to recognize incompetence. You will fall into the same trap Jason did. You will have to trust James and the other guys when they make excuses for failures. It will never be their fault, they just need XXXX now because YYYYY did not do what they thought it would. Read the chat logs, that is exactly what he did to Jason. Nothing was ever his fault, and there was always a miracle fix coming in a few weeks. He has already pulled it on you with this UMA2 stuff. I am in no way a network expert, but I know UMA, and there is NOTHING coming that is going to help your game in any significant way.
    Far from it. I know enough to get by, but certainly am no expert. In that sense, I *do* have friends who *are* experts. People who I can rely on to help me if/when needed. Also, from a team standpoint, the additional of new members will ensure that everything moves forward smoothly. If someone is disjointed, it will become apparent quickly. The reason we need the new avatar system is to go with Atavism. Atavism is on our short-list, as we own the license for it. However, we're currently exploring other options that would be better-suited. It also comes down to cost-benefit and time to recode. We don't want to start over, but we'll go as far back as we have to to ensure that we have a stable platform to deliver this game. If you have any ideas - I'm ALL ears. Seriously. Feedback is important. If you dedicated HALF the time helping me as you did criticizing me, then we'd probably release this year! hahaha

    Quote Originally Posted by Adalaar View Post
    I like this guy . I hope the transition goes well and people who donated get the game they wanted.
    I appreciate the kind words. It's had its bumps, but we're making progress.

  4. #5324
    Quote Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
    Waste time arguing? I was unaware that I was a programmer, so I didn't really realize that talking on here was impeding progress on the game. Funny how your ENTIRE comment is riddled with insults and flippant remarks, and you close it with 'Grow the fuck up.'

    Maybe heed your own advice? Just a thought.
    I was unaware that I called you a programmer, can you point it out for me? You are working on this "project", yes?

    Quote Originally Posted by jrhager84
    I'm glad I don't share the same bleak vision as you in regards to this acquisition. I meant you're the minority, as the majority of feedback I've seen personally has been a LOT more positive than your remarks. Even the negative has been constructive, and has helped us move forward. There really isn't anything resembling legitimate critique in your responses, really. You hate the game. Ok. Noted. We're making it better. You think we're doomed. Great. I disagree.
    Are you not?

    If yes, why are you here? Surely, there must be hundreds of different ways for you to spend your time, rather than sitting here on MMOC and defending yourself?

    And indeed, my comment is a ridicule of you, because that's what you are. A joke. You cherrypick the questions you want to answer and avoiding shit like this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    You mean the ´image´ of the priest and the elf on the website? Yeah, Unity Asset Store $25 each I believe. I think the hog-man is $35.

    Here, I will help you out if you want to sue Unity for stealing the copyright on your branding

    Elf Girl $10
    https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/4286

    Your amazing branding.. you didn´t even bother to use your own render... nope, just stole the picture directly from the artist.

    Here is pig head $40
    https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/3770

    Again, didn´t even bother to do your own render, just stole it from the artist and put it on your website for branding.

    And here is the Priest also $40

    https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/2259

    But you are in luck, those last two were done by the same artist, so when you sue them for copyright infringement, you only need to sue two people.

    Is that branding? Can you please define it again?
    You argue around definition of words (branding) but don't have shit to brand.

    So yes, grow the fuck up.
    Last edited by Maddoc; 2015-04-08 at 10:47 AM.

  5. #5325
    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
    What exactly is your intent as far as "giving the backers a game"? Is it just going to be playable? Is it going to be within the scope presented to the backers? What games have your developers worked on so we have an idea of their work?

    These are just a handful of questions that need to be taken into consideration when trying to instill some kind of acceptance into people, especially those who have frequented this thread. We've seen the same things come from the ToA crowd, and look where they are.

    What exactly is it that YOU do as far as GM is concerned?
    Our goal is to provide the backers with a game that is as close to the original concept as possible, within the scope of our abilities. Our old Creative Lead (of which we're trying to get back) did QA for Sony. Others do freelance work for various mobile games/indie titles/etc. Nobody is a 'rockstar' if that's what you're going for.

    I handle the business side of MMOI/GM. I ensure top-down operation, and make sure milestones are being hit. (read: I'm the whip-cracker). I also handle fiscal planning, critical pathing of labor and resources, and maintaining sustainable growth rates. I field PR, and help source labor and tech (servers, etc.) I also finance a lot of this right now.

  6. #5326
    Quote Originally Posted by Adalaar View Post
    I like this guy . I hope the transition goes well and people who donated get the game they wanted.
    I´ve read the plans for GreedMonger. There is no way they are going to pick people up off the street and accomplish anything like they have planned. If James keeps being the man, it is never going to get made. If they turn it over to someone competent, they are going to start from scratch. Nobody competent is going to look at what happened so far with this game and want to join the team. Again, you have the same problem as ToA.. There are some unique ideas, but anyone that could accomplish them would just do it themselves and stay away from the mess. If I had the networking chops to do the housing and plot system that GM wants to do, I would not join GM, I would just do it myself with a fresh kickstarter and no bad press. The same way if I wanted to make a game with permadeath and spider characters, I wouldn´t join ToA, I would just do it myself. GM and ToA, less than zero right now.

  7. #5327
    Quote Originally Posted by Maddoc View Post
    I was unaware that I called you a programmer, can you point it out for me? You are working on this "project", yes?



    Are you not?

    If yes, why are you here? Surely, there must be hundreds of different ways for you to spend your time, rather than sitting here on MMOC and defending yourself?

    And indeed, my comment is a ridicule of you, because that's what you are. A joke. You cherrypick the questions you want to answer and avoiding shit like this:



    You argue around definition of words (branding) but don't have shit to brand.

    So yes, grow the fuck up.
    I cherry-picked nothing. My comments about branding were NOT in reference to those assets, so the precedent argument is consequently moot. If anything, that's a demonstration of *my* comments being cherry-picked. You've also failed to account that we're in the process of transitioning the game to our new servers - (i.e. there's nothing to *do* at this point aside from wait for the servers to be set up). Good looking out, though! :-/

    My time is just that; MY time. I will decide how I spend my time, not you. You have no control over me, and I don't know you or respect you enough to heed ANY of your advice.

    You also don't phase me. I don't care what you think of me. You don't influence my decisions, as you have nothing of value to present to me. I can handle constructive criticism, but blatant attacks will be swiftly forgotten.

    If there's something constructive you'd like to say, then I'd suggest you get on with it. Otherwise, I can think of a thousand different more-constructive ways for YOU to spend your time as well... ;-)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    I´ve read the plans for GreedMonger. There is no way they are going to pick people up off the street and accomplish anything like they have planned. If James keeps being the man, it is never going to get made. If they turn it over to someone competent, they are going to start from scratch. Nobody competent is going to look at what happened so far with this game and want to join the team. Again, you have the same problem as ToA.. There are some unique ideas, but anyone that could accomplish them would just do it themselves and stay away from the mess. If I had the networking chops to do the housing and plot system that GM wants to do, I would not join GM, I would just do it myself with a fresh kickstarter and no bad press. The same way if I wanted to make a game with permadeath and spider characters, I wouldn´t join ToA, I would just do it myself. GM and ToA, less than zero right now.
    Your assessment is valid, however much I disagree with it. If it weren't for our prior involvement in this project, we would have walked. Giving the KS backers nothing was just not in the cards as far as we were concerned.

  8. #5328
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    Yeah, Unreal is free now, which is probably the thing that forced Unity to make Unity Pro 5.0 free, which was like a Christmas present for me, complete surprise that saved me $1500.

    People do benchmarks all the time comparing Unity to Unreal. There really isn´t that much of a difference as far as what kinda FPS you can get with the exact same scene. I may be remembering it backwards, but Unity 4.0 vs Unreal, Unreal did better up until you started using more than one light source or something like that. The difference was never big enough to make me use it. For unreal, you need to know C++ which is ´real´ programming. Unity uses C# which is more like javascript and built for accomplishing things for games. That was always my reason for using Unity and Hero Engine ( HE uses it´s own script language that is similar to C#)
    Yeh dabbling with unity for the last few weeks, it works pretty well. Having to dust off a lot of my programming knowledge which was well out of date. I will have to get the unreal engine as well and see whats on offer there. It is good that unity followed suit and put 5.0 for free, stuff like that is always welcome. Just like when valve used to put their world building tools out there. Used to love making little mods and maps etc for them.

    I will be working on my own indie game mostly for fun, but first I have been following the online tutorials for unity and then dabbling with ideas on my own time. The guys who run both the ToA project and GM seem to just outsource it which IMO for such a small unit is just suicide. If I was to do what they did it would be no better than trying to run a KS with project notes on the back of a fag packet.

    Not saying I am going onto KS or anything but you get the point. I will make my own little game for my friends and I but it won't be a fast project, certainly since I am learning how to use unity (which is pretty simple so far but I only do a bit of work on it during weekends). If these guys seriously want to make a game they should have put the time in to do it them selves. Which was your point all along tbh.

  9. #5329
    Warchief Fallen Angel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
    Our goal is to provide the backers with a game that is as close to the original concept as possible, within the scope of our abilities. Our old Creative Lead (of which we're trying to get back) did QA for Sony. Others do freelance work for various mobile games/indie titles/etc. Nobody is a 'rockstar' if that's what you're going for.
    What I'm going for is specific examples of what your developers have done. I would want to know the people I'm supporting actually have experience in creating some semblance of a successful game. Do they have experience working on an MMO? It takes very little to say X has worked on "something" because it's providing no information at all.

    Who was your CL? Why are you trying to get them back?

    I hope you don't think I'm trying to attack you, but I'd rather have the full picture for what you're spinning rather than bits of information that really mean nothing.

  10. #5330
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Yeh dabbling with unity for the last few weeks, it works pretty well. Having to dust off a lot of my programming knowledge which was well out of date. I will have to get the unreal engine as well and see whats on offer there. It is good that unity followed suit and put 5.0 for free, stuff like that is always welcome. Just like when valve used to put their world building tools out there. Used to love making little mods and maps etc for them.

    I will be working on my own indie game mostly for fun, but first I have been following the online tutorials for unity and then dabbling with ideas on my own time. The guys who run both the ToA project and GM seem to just outsource it which IMO for such a small unit is just suicide. If I was to do what they did it would be no better than trying to run a KS with project notes on the back of a fag packet.

    Not saying I am going onto KS or anything but you get the point. I will make my own little game for my friends and I but it won't be a fast project, certainly since I am learning how to use unity (which is pretty simple so far but I only do a bit of work on it during weekends). If these guys seriously want to make a game they should have put the time in to do it them selves. Which was your point all along tbh.
    C'mon man! Outsourcing MMO's is the future! Stop living in the past! It is way easier to talk a good game on forums than actually do anything that looks like work or coding!

  11. #5331
    Quote Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
    The reason we need the new avatar system is to go with Atavism. Atavism is on our short-list, as we own the license for it. However, we're currently exploring other options that would be better-suited.
    And James is BSing you again...... You need UMA2 to go with Atavism? First off, that is completely untrue. Second, I already gave you a link to where you could have downloaded UMA2 many months ago. If this was really holding up your development on Atavism (not true anyway) then the solution has been available.

    How I can help you? The problem you have is like I said. You are making a MMORPG ( the hardest possible game to make) using an engine ( Unity) that was not created to make MMORPGs and you are using an MMORPG kit that doesn´t have many of the most important features to make a MMORPG. This isn´t about willpower or uphill battle... This is about reality... GM is not getting made anywhere near how it is designed with plots and stuff like that.

    My advice to save yourself some money. The first thing you should do is get them to build a small world, and get 100 people logged in at the same time using the client. If you cannot get 100 people running around an empty world without lag, than there is no sense buying artwork, or coders or nothing... the system simply will never be able to scale high enough for the game you have designed.

    I am curious, I have never seen this. Have Atavism devs ever actually did a test like this on any of their games? Have you ever seen a screenshot with a 100 people logged in at the same time?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    I will be working on my own indie game mostly for fun, but first I have been following the online tutorials for unity
    Did you see the tutorials they did with the Nightmare survival shooter and Rogue-like game. They basically walk you through making an entire game and give you the art assets along with it. I watch every video they put up, I am always amazed at how I can take 50 lines of code to do something they did in 3. I never fail to learn some technique, even from their basic tutorials

    http://unity3d.com/learn/tutorials/modules

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    C'mon man! Outsourcing MMO's is the future! Stop living in the past! It is way easier to talk a good game on forums than actually do anything that looks like work or coding!
    The only thing better than outsourcing an MMORPG is getting your forum posters volunteer to build it for you...

  12. #5332
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    Did you see the tutorials they did with the Nightmare survival shooter and Rogue-like game. They basically walk you through making an entire game and give you the art assets along with it. I watch every video they put up, I am always amazed at how I can take 50 lines of code to do something they did in 3. I never fail to learn some technique, even from their basic tutorials

    http://unity3d.com/learn/tutorials/modules

    - - - Updated - - -



    The only thing better than outsourcing an MMORPG is getting your forum posters volunteer to build it for you...
    The nightmare one I did it was really easy to do. Having multiple monitors made it very simple at home (I have a 4 Meter Long work station I built at home that runs along a wall in my spare room where I have my PC then my 32" TV for playing xbox/watching sky tv on and another space for my GFs PC) Had unity tutorial on one screen and the program in another. Just downloaded the assets and did a monkey see monkey do. Then after I did it I had a little play around with what they showed me to see if I could change the level around a bit. Helps me understand what they did a little more tbh.

    Its the way forward on learning tbh, much better than when I first did modding years ago on half life! I just don't get why they did not put a little effort in. Imagine if they took the time in 2012 to before their KS and took a few years to plug away and learn. You could really have made a lot more than toilet paper notes. I think War for the underworlds a good example. I think they are using unity now the games "released" it is a bit buggy being a small team but it does play well when it works (memory leaks aside making level 10 almost unplayable) Those guys took the time to put up their work and actually produced something after all that time.

  13. #5333
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    I think War for the underworlds a good example. I think they are using unity now the games "released" it is a bit buggy being a small team but it does play well when it works (memory leaks aside making level 10 almost unplayable) Those guys took the time to put up their work and actually produced something after all that time.
    It is, and they have. Their launch was messy, it was really rushed(some suggested on account of Dungeons 2 coming out), but they're trying to squash their bugs and get the rest of the game's functionality up and going. They were very transparent about their project, kept it updated and talked about its development week to week. They were fans of a classic game and wanted to make a spiritual successor. And because they spent their time working on the game and not sitting around with their fingers in their noses waiting for some schlub to make it for them, guess what?

    They succeeded.

    Food for thought, wannabe's.

  14. #5334
    Quote Originally Posted by lawow74 View Post
    It is, and they have. Their launch was messy, it was really rushed(some suggested on account of Dungeons 2 coming out), but they're trying to squash their bugs and get the rest of the game's functionality up and going. They were very transparent about their project, kept it updated and talked about its development week to week. They were fans of a classic game and wanted to make a spiritual successor. And because they spent their time working on the game and not sitting around with their fingers in their noses waiting for some schlub to make it for them, guess what?

    They succeeded.

    Food for thought, wannabe's.
    Indeed, the rushed release aside they've done a really good job considering. I like how the game is very simple, yet has a lot of complex elements you can delve into. You can tell its made by fans as its got the very same feel that Dungeon Keeper had right down to the voice acting. They did release too early IMO with some glaring problems. But it is a small team and they are doing regular updates to the game AND to the community via posts etc. So they are a good example of an indie team making something worth while. Then we see the mess of ToA and now GM? Makes me shake my head that things like this come to light as I like the idea of kick starter and I dont want peoples faith in it shaken by setups like this polluting it.

  15. #5335
    I'd like to suggest that we tone down the vitriol against Joel here. Not much point in our, to borrow Derium's phrase, going for the throat. Clearly the majority of us posting recently here, myself included, don't see GM having a snowball's chance in Scottsdale; yet we are all perfectly capable of expressing that without unnecessary personal attacks and name-calling.

    That said Joel, while I appreciate that you're trying to cleanup and damage control for not only GM but also Mr. Proctor, I hope you understand that most of us here are not remotely fans of Mr. Appleton, but we also see that while perhaps Mr. Proctor couldn't be held -legally- accountable for GM's technical failings under ECG we certainly do hold him responsible nonetheless. In truth, you're not only having to work on GM's brand (which I agree with others here seems premature right now; but I'm hardly qualified to offer marketing advice), but more importantly on Mr. Proctor's brand.

    This is the sticking point, I feel: by essentially replacing Mr. Appleton with yourself while Mr. Proctor still is employed in making GM, you would have us believe that Mr. Appleton was the reason that GM has stagnated. We see it a bit differently though, and again I want to stress that we are -not- supporters of Mr. Appleton, but we can't ignore that the one person we consider directly responsible for the work done on GM over the last three years and the content of that video is still at the technical helm.

  16. #5336
    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
    What I'm going for is specific examples of what your developers have done. I would want to know the people I'm supporting actually have experience in creating some semblance of a successful game. Do they have experience working on an MMO? It takes very little to say X has worked on "something" because it's providing no information at all.

    Who was your CL? Why are you trying to get them back?

    I hope you don't think I'm trying to attack you, but I'd rather have the full picture for what you're spinning rather than bits of information that really mean nothing.
    I'll have to go through and ask again. Like I said, it's nothing 'notable' in any sense, and we're not 'rockstars' at all. We're just working towards having something to show at present. Our CL Jesse worked on 1st party QA for Sony. Some people did some small freelance work for other, various companies (usually under NDA). I'd never make any illusions that we're some 'mega group' that's developed a million successful franchises, because that would be untrue...

    Quote Originally Posted by lawow74 View Post
    It is, and they have. Their launch was messy, it was really rushed(some suggested on account of Dungeons 2 coming out), but they're trying to squash their bugs and get the rest of the game's functionality up and going. They were very transparent about their project, kept it updated and talked about its development week to week. They were fans of a classic game and wanted to make a spiritual successor. And because they spent their time working on the game and not sitting around with their fingers in their noses waiting for some schlub to make it for them, guess what?

    They succeeded.

    Food for thought, wannabe's.
    Aside from the blatant attack at the end, you make a lot of great points. There's not really much to speak about in the context you've provided. I can only say that we're definitely not sitting here 'with our fingers in our noses' - we're moving forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Indeed, the rushed release aside they've done a really good job considering. I like how the game is very simple, yet has a lot of complex elements you can delve into. You can tell its made by fans as its got the very same feel that Dungeon Keeper had right down to the voice acting. They did release too early IMO with some glaring problems. But it is a small team and they are doing regular updates to the game AND to the community via posts etc. So they are a good example of an indie team making something worth while. Then we see the mess of ToA and now GM? Makes me shake my head that things like this come to light as I like the idea of kick starter and I dont want peoples faith in it shaken by setups like this polluting it.
    I can certainly agree with a lot of the sentiments here. This is *exactly* why we didn't abandon GM. We don't want GM contributing to the long line of messy games that ruin peoples' feelings about indie game development. We've made mistakes, but if we right the ship, at least GM won't be completely contributing to that negative image. Hopefully that gives you more insight as to *why* we're doing this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taojnhy View Post
    I'd like to suggest that we tone down the vitriol against Joel here. Not much point in our, to borrow Derium's phrase, going for the throat. Clearly the majority of us posting recently here, myself included, don't see GM having a snowball's chance in Scottsdale; yet we are all perfectly capable of expressing that without unnecessary personal attacks and name-calling.

    That said Joel, while I appreciate that you're trying to cleanup and damage control for not only GM but also Mr. Proctor, I hope you understand that most of us here are not remotely fans of Mr. Appleton, but we also see that while perhaps Mr. Proctor couldn't be held -legally- accountable for GM's technical failings under ECG we certainly do hold him responsible nonetheless. In truth, you're not only having to work on GM's brand (which I agree with others here seems premature right now; but I'm hardly qualified to offer marketing advice), but more importantly on Mr. Proctor's brand.

    This is the sticking point, I feel: by essentially replacing Mr. Appleton with yourself while Mr. Proctor still is employed in making GM, you would have us believe that Mr. Appleton was the reason that GM has stagnated. We see it a bit differently though, and again I want to stress that we are -not- supporters of Mr. Appleton, but we can't ignore that the one person we consider directly responsible for the work done on GM over the last three years and the content of that video is still at the technical helm.
    I appreciate your defense, but I knew this was going to happen going into this. I'm not a big fan of personal attacks, but if there's a point to be had in there as well, I'll take that out of it. If it's just a personal attack, then it will just be ignored, and doesn't bother me in the slightest.

    The video was a mistake - Plain and simple. There were some changes in direction that happened, that if I were at the helm I would've waited on. I use this steak analogy, as it relates perfectly to this circumstance, and everybody has dealt with this before (even if not steak, something else).

    Would you rather send out an over-cooked steak so it's on time, or make the customer wait another 10 minutes for a PERFECT steak?

    We're trying to cook a perfect steak now. People are going to be mad. People might get impatient. Though, I'd rather fight through that and have something real to show people, rather than half-bake something and hit a magical deadline that we've already monumentally failed.

  17. #5337
    Quote Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
    I appreciate your defense, but I knew this was going to happen going into this. I'm not a big fan of personal attacks, but if there's a point to be had in there as well, I'll take that out of it. If it's just a personal attack, then it will just be ignored, and doesn't bother me in the slightest.

    The video was a mistake - Plain and simple. There were some changes in direction that happened, that if I were at the helm I would've waited on. I use this steak analogy, as it relates perfectly to this circumstance, and everybody has dealt with this before (even if not steak, something else).

    Would you rather send out an over-cooked steak so it's on time, or make the customer wait another 10 minutes for a PERFECT steak?

    We're trying to cook a perfect steak now. People are going to be mad. People might get impatient. Though, I'd rather fight through that and have something real to show people, rather than half-bake something and hit a magical deadline that we've already monumentally failed.
    To be perfectly frank, my position here I imagine is somewhat parallel to yours; I'm more concerned about the image we in this thread are presenting towards those who come here to engage us. I don't want us to be viewed as "those trolls at MMO-C" and that excuse used to obfuscate legitimate criticisms such as we've had happen with our dealings with Forged Chaos and their Trials of Ascension project. I have no doubts that you can handle yourself Joel.

    I have to admit I'm a bit stuck on your steak analogy; if a steak is overcooked how is taking more time going to make it perfect? Did you mean undercooked? If you meant undercooked, okay, I see where you're coming from. But as this relates to GM we're now talking about a steak that's taken three years to cook (despite assurances from the cook that far more progress was being made than was actually the case) and when we finally lay eyes on what turns out to be a cooked hoof and express our displeasure to the cook, knowing full well that more time is needed for the steak that we paid in advance for, we also are still hungry and that the chances of our saying, "screw this, let's go get Thai" start climbing.

    I'm either overthinking this or you need a better analogy.

  18. #5338
    Quote Originally Posted by Taojnhy View Post
    To be perfectly frank, my position here I imagine is somewhat parallel to yours; I'm more concerned about the image we in this thread are presenting towards those who come here to engage us. I don't want us to be viewed as "those trolls at MMO-C" and that excuse used to obfuscate legitimate criticisms such as we've had happen with our dealings with Forged Chaos and their Trials of Ascension project. I have no doubts that you can handle yourself Joel.

    I have to admit I'm a bit stuck on your steak analogy; if a steak is overcooked how is taking more time going to make it perfect? Did you mean undercooked? If you meant undercooked, okay, I see where you're coming from.

    I'm either overthinking this or you need a better analogy.
    In food service, you throw away the bad steak, and recook it. Apologies for not being clear enough.

  19. #5339
    Quote Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
    In food service, you throw away the bad steak, and recook it. Apologies for not being clear enough.
    Oh, that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.

    So is this meant to suggest that the previous work on GM is being discarded and MMO Interactive will be making a fresh start on the metaphorical steak, or am I reading too much into your explanation?

  20. #5340
    yeah. Here is what I see.

    There is absolutely no difference betweeen you and Jason. No game development or programming skills, just a lot of talk about PR, Branding and team-building and you are committed to this game. Neither of you can provide details of any game that either you or any of your employees actually created and you are already buying into the fake excuses and promises James was making to Jason for the last 3 years. That you believe in James makes me question your ability to recognize talent.. 3 years, $100,000 and he produced that January video. Hilarious that you talk about all these other employees that lining up to work for you..they must have some killed videos out there too.

    And what you type and talk about.. seriously it is exactly what James has been doing for 3 years on the forums. A lot of fault blamed on everyone else that has now been taking care of.. A lot of technical excuses that honestly make no sense. Republique was a completed game that went from Unity4 to Unity5 in less than a day. My own project took less than a few hours to switch over, but yet the video James released somehow requires 4 months to use Unity5? And this talk about UMA2 is a fake excuse also. But here you are, doing exactly what James did for years.. making promises of something that is coming ´real soon´.. but rest assured, when it doesn´t happen, it will be the fault of someone else... UMA, Atavism.. someone... but at the same time.. fear not, because the newer solution will be coming soon. Do you not realize this is exactly why your fans abandoned the game over the last 2 years? And why we are all giving the same advice to shut up and make the game first? Show progress before you talk about progress.

    The game is now apparently in Alpha, which means nothing except James called it Alpha, just like he called himself CEO of MMOI. There is absolutely no reason anyone should think the game is anywhere past that January video. God, it is the same as ToA.. spending all their time on the forums talking about progress, but not actually making any.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Taojnhy View Post
    Oh, that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.

    So is this meant to suggest that the previous work on GM is being discarded and MMO Interactive will be making a fresh start on the metaphorical steak, or am I reading too much into your explanation?
    Yes, they are going to change engines, change network solutions, change everything. Read James on his forums for the last 3 years, it was what he has been doing all along, it is his excuse for not making progress. It is always the fault of engine/networking etc... but they want to make the perfect steak, so they are going to use new stuff, that will make everything perfect. Joel just doesn´t know enough to know that James is just making excuses. Psst.. the bad steak is James and the idea that a CEO who has never made a game can suddenly create a team from thin air to create one.

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