1. #5721
    Quote Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
    No - Not entirely. We were going to file when things were getting more serious, but then people got poached, and it made no sense to put up a vapor company at that point
    So it is okay to make the vapor company now? Cool!

  2. #5722
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    Killing me man. MMOI is a company that doesn´t even exist yet. It was created for GreedMonger. People are not that stupid to think everything is magically sunshine because you started a new company.

    Atavism will never be able to make a MMORPG, let alone one that is as intensive as your plot/housing system. Did you even watch your own video? Honestly, you are falling into the same mistakes as Jason. You don´t have the tech background to understand this stuff, so you are just listening to James talk about some magic stuff that is going to fix it all. It isn´t. GreedMonger would struggle with networking even if it was built by Blizzard, it is brutally hard on the networking side of things. Throw in the fact that you are using an engine not built for MMORPGs and using a hacked mmorpg kit that has never actually produced a MMORPG and still has not even added core MMORPG features (coming soon! lol). I would never even start using something like Atavism unilt he devs have all the required features in the kit and have their own MMORPG running with 200 concurrents.
    I never insinuated people were stupid, and I never insinuated that it would be 'sunshine.' Far from it. Again, that's not my concern. My concern is doing what we can to honor the backers, and getting something in their hands. I'm working very closely with some contacts that I have, that are going through the code and letting me know where our bottlenecks are, and what we need to change/improve to get things going. Rest assured, as much as I trust and admire James, I don't take ANYBODY's word completely. I want hard data - I want numbers that mean something. If you have an idea on how GM can be made better, I'm all ears. Heck, wouldn't it be nice to work towards getting a better game into peoples' hands?

    This is why we're in a holding pattern. If I decide that something's not working, then we're going to change it. It's really that simple. My hope is that people will see that we're trying to change, and support us in doing so. I'd like to think that the more you get to know me, the more you'll realize that I'm not some scammer or idiot jumping into something stupidly. I'm fighting an uphill battle to ensure that people get a product.

    Now, from a business perspective, I get assets. Assets that are of value. Assets that can be used to produce *other* projects, that will START from a good place. However, our commitment as it stands right now, will be Greed Monger -- Whether it succeeds or fails. Any good businessman has a backup plan. If GM fails, then we will learn from what happened, and move on. However, moving on (to me) is NOT abandoning something.

    We'll finish it, and if it flops; it flops. Even after that, we'll have code we can reuse. We'll have assets and anims amassed. We'll have artwork and the like. Positioning is key. Honesty is paramount. I'm certainly not a saint, and I certainly don't run a charity. What I do espouse, are principles. I will not abandon this IP. It will succeed or fail, and then we'll move on. There are other projects that are shelved that can be developed the moment that GM concludes. I gave my word that we would do EVERYTHING in our power to honor these backers, and push forward, and I intend on doing so.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    So it is okay to make the vapor company now? Cool!
    See, now we're just stooping to flippant attacks. I'd like to think that I've been very forthright and honest when it pertains to this. I would hope that a bit of civility could be used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    and please.. for the love of God stop using terms like ´branding´ until you actually make a game. GreedMonger is that January video, nothing more.
    I'll just leave this here:

    Branding: 'The process involved in creating a unique name and image for a product in the consumers' mind, mainly through advertising campaigns with a consistent theme. Branding aims to establish a significant and differentiated presence in the market that attracts and retains loyal customers.'

    You'll have to excuse me -- I think the GM 'brand' is a lot more comprehensive than a video. I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree. ;-)

  3. #5723
    You are right, the GM 'brand' is 3 years of failures and 1 god awful video. After seeing almost a year's worth of Forged Chaos do shit tons of talking while showing nothing this really does not surprise me here. Words are great, but how about you show us something. Right now from what I understand your 'brand' is 2 people, one that produced a terrible video and the other is the 'social media' team. There is a company that is being created with no financial backing that is going to try and get people on board to make this game? *shrugs* I have no horse in this race but I'll enjoy watching this one all the same.

    "Branding: 'The process involved in creating a unique name and image for a product in the consumers' mind, mainly through advertising campaigns with a consistent theme. Branding aims to establish a significant and differentiated presence in the market that attracts and retains loyal customers." Umm yes there is a unique image that comes to mind when people talk about GM. What is there to advertise? You can't establish a presence in a market when you aren't even CLOSE to getting a game out. Ther are no 'customers' because you have nothing to sell them.

  4. #5724
    well yeah, you can´t just come right out and say that GreedMonger is dead right after you take it over. Give it 3-6 months of forum posts and some sincere anguish.. gather some sympathy for the brave and honorable uphill battle you fought trying to save a tarnished GreedMonger. That way when you start over with GameX that is built with all of the assets the backers of the Geedmonger Kickstarter paid for, you can do so with a clear conscious.

    Nobody would devote time and money into a game with GreedMongers reputation unless all that time and money is easily transfered to the real project later on.

    New Poll ladies and Gentleman. In what Month will MMOI announce their new project. I am taking 4 months from now.. so that would be August. I still have June as the month when Brax finally announces the end of ToA.

  5. #5725
    Azrile, if I didn't know better I'd feel like I'm talking to Brax 2.0

    These guys should write a book on how to make a game company that has a 'brand'.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    well yeah, you can´t just come right out and say that GreedMonger is dead right after you take it over. Give it 3-6 months of forum posts and some sincere anguish.. gather some sympathy for the brave and honorable uphill battle you fought trying to save a tarnished GreedMonger. That way when you start over with GameX that is built with all of the assets the backers of the Geedmonger Kickstarter paid for, you can do so with a clear conscious.

    Nobody would devote time and money into a game with GreedMongers reputation unless all that time and money is easily transfered to the real project later on.

    New Poll ladies and Gentleman. In what Month will MMOI announce their new project. I am taking 4 months from now.. so that would be August. I still have June as the month when Brax finally announces the end of ToA.
    MMOI will announce the new project: Trials of Ascension~GreedMonger. A project that has a significant brand presence and other fancy sounding business words that don't apply because there is no game.

  6. #5726
    Potential customers are customers in that sense. The 'image' of GM is the website, the forums, etc. I'm just being tactical when referencing it. I'm not sure why it's become such a sticking point...

  7. #5727
    Quote Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post

    Branding: 'The process involved in creating a unique name and image for a product in the consumers' mind
    You missed my point. I know what branding is... do you know what a product is? You do not have a product, so it is silly to talk about branding it.

  8. #5728
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    It reminds me of the email I got the other week giving me a free copy of a new zombie MMO from the infestation guys, they basically want to 'rebrand' themselves away from the nightmare that was that development and team. It won't work, once something is toxic in the gaming world it is very hard to recover.

  9. #5729
    Quote Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
    Potential customers are customers in that sense. The 'image' of GM is the website, the forums, etc. I'm just being tactical when referencing it. I'm not sure why it's become such a sticking point...
    Oh I KNOW what image GM invokes when I think about it. 3 years of failures and the waste of 100k in KS money. A video after 3 years of 'work' on the game that is one of the worst things I've ever seen as far as gaming is concerned. The image of GM is a failed game with a forum/website. Wooo.

  10. #5730
    Quote Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
    The 'image' of GM is the website
    You mean the ´image´ of the priest and the elf on the website? Yeah, Unity Asset Store $25 each I believe. I think the hog-man is $35.

    Here, I will help you out if you want to sue Unity for stealing the copyright on your branding

    Elf Girl $10
    https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/4286

    Your amazing branding.. you didn´t even bother to use your own render... nope, just stole the picture directly from the artist.

    Here is pig head $40
    https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/3770

    Again, didn´t even bother to do your own render, just stole it from the artist and put it on your website for branding.

    And here is the Priest also $40

    https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/2259

    But you are in luck, those last two were done by the same artist, so when you sue them for copyright infringement, you only need to sue two people.

    Is that branding? Can you please define it again?
    Last edited by Azrile; 2015-04-08 at 09:46 AM.

  11. #5731
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    You missed my point. I know what branding is... do you know what a product is? You do not have a product, so it is silly to talk about branding it.
    We do have a product. The product just isn't finished. Big difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    It reminds me of the email I got the other week giving me a free copy of a new zombie MMO from the infestation guys, they basically want to 'rebrand' themselves away from the nightmare that was that development and team. It won't work, once something is toxic in the gaming world it is very hard to recover.
    It's a far different story when it's a different company with a different structure moving forward. You're actually referring to The War Z, right? Which had to change their name? Sergei Titov is the leader of that pack, and I called him out as well. I'd hope you can see the differences between these two scenarios... If not, I'd be more than happy to point them out.

    Final thoughts:
    I'm noticing a disturbing trend of things devolving into more ad hominem-style remarks. Look - I get where you guys are coming from. No amount of character judgements or snide remarks are going to help here. Can we dispense with the puffery, and stick to points? I'll be happy to answer any questions, and be as transparent as humanly possible. Also, I couldn't care less what you guys think of me. I couldn't care less about what you think my character is. That's not the point here. My point was to clarify key issues, and provide a plan moving forward. The 'peanut gallery' forum is not helpful, nor is it a constructive appropriation of time.

    It's almost as though you get a kick out of stirring the pot. After all, we *are* in the internet.

  12. #5732
    What exactly is there to be transparent about? How many people are working on this game RIGHT NOW? Who is backing this game? How long will you seek funds from other companies before shelving this project?

    I just don't get WHY you'd want this 'project' to be under your company/personal name. A 3 year project that has had its name drug through the mud and 100k in Kickstarter money basically being wasted isn't exactly the image I'd want to project.

  13. #5733
    Branding/Image also applies to public perception, which is the facet I'm referring to in this instance. It seems you're so bent on arguing, that you're willing to subvert an entire conversation to keep the pressure on. I'm not quite sure what you think you're doing, aside from maybe bolstering your ego by 'white knighting' the poor KS backers. You've misappropriated nearly every one of my points to near ludicrousness. I never said the 'art' was the image. But here you go, down the rabbit hole.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Right now, we have about 10 people of various backgrounds and various commitment levels, with more in the pipeline being vetted. I am backing this company at present. We will release this game no matter what. Whether it's taking a while because we're financing it ourselves, or with help from publishers or investors. This project will NOT get shelved. It WILL be released to our best efforts.

    We didn't *want* this project. I told James to run. After Interdiction Studios passed on it, we thought about it. We thought about all of the money that people have spent, and how much James worked on this project. I assumed the risk of acquiring a damaged IP so that we may have the tools to fix it, and after this release goes, the next project. Even if the game turns out to be a monumental failure, my hope is that people will *see* what we've done to correct the mistakes. At least then, people will see effort being made to fulfill the commitment.

    You're also exactly right about negative image. Which is why I'm focused on imaging and branding. This company is NOT responsible for wasting KS money - We haven't seen a dime of it. We haven't had our name drug through the mud - We're coming on to finish what was started incorrectly (in my opinion). I knew this wasn't going to be easy, but that's not why I do things. I don't choose the easy path. This was a perfect chance for us to use the attention of GM (however negative) to show people the changes, and to listen to the negative feedback to strengthen ourselves. We're in a great position from a QA standpoint; We've already got a pack of vicious naysayers that'll tear our game to shreds each release. My hope is that as updates continue, the list of qualms shrinks. All we can do is move forward, and see what happens.

  14. #5734
    We gave you the best advice, shut the fuck up and make the game before you talk shit like James has been doing the past 3 years.

    And it is really hard to take this ´new´ company seriously since James has already done the same thing in the past. ´I am in control of GM now, I am CEO of MMOI and Jason is just a silent member of my board of directors´..

    Oh, but we should believe you now, because you know, it is YOU this time, and not just some random nobody that nobody has heard of before.. oh wait.. you are some random nobody that nobody has heard of before. Care to list the games you have completed? Asteroid clones are great! But nobody should worry, because now Joel is here to save the day.

    You sound so similar to Jason back during the KS. Vetting people who are just throwing themselves at you to work for you.
    Last edited by Azrile; 2015-04-08 at 10:00 AM.

  15. #5735
    If you think he is trying to 'white knight' for the KS backers then you have really missed the point.

  16. #5736
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    Is that branding? Can you please define it again?
    Branding/Image also applies to public perception, which is the facet I'm referring to in this instance. It seems you're so bent on arguing, that you're willing to subvert an entire conversation to keep the pressure on. I'm not quite sure what you think you're doing, aside from maybe bolstering your ego by 'white knighting' the poor KS backers. You've misappropriated nearly every one of my points to near ludicrousness. I never said the 'art' was the image. But here you go, down the rabbit hole.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    What exactly is there to be transparent about? How many people are working on this game RIGHT NOW? Who is backing this game? How long will you seek funds from other companies before shelving this project?

    I just don't get WHY you'd want this 'project' to be under your company/personal name. A 3 year project that has had its name drug through the mud and 100k in Kickstarter money basically being wasted isn't exactly the image I'd want to project.
    Right now, we have about 10 people of various backgrounds and various commitment levels, with more in the pipeline being vetted. I am backing this company at present. We will release this game no matter what. Whether it's taking a while because we're financing it ourselves, or with help from publishers or investors. This project will NOT get shelved. It WILL be released to our best efforts.

    We didn't *want* this project. I told James to run. After Interdiction Studios passed on it, we thought about it. We thought about all of the money that people have spent, and how much James worked on this project. I assumed the risk of acquiring a damaged IP so that we may have the tools to fix it, and after this release goes, the next project. Even if the game turns out to be a monumental failure, my hope is that people will *see* what we've done to correct the mistakes. At least then, people will see effort being made to fulfill the commitment.

    You're also exactly right about negative image. Which is why I'm focused on imaging and branding. This company is NOT responsible for wasting KS money - We haven't seen a dime of it. We haven't had our name drug through the mud - We're coming on to finish what was started incorrectly (in my opinion). I knew this wasn't going to be easy, but that's not why I do things. I don't choose the easy path. This was a perfect chance for us to use the attention of GM (however negative) to show people the changes, and to listen to the negative feedback to strengthen ourselves. We're in a great position from a QA standpoint; We've already got a pack of vicious naysayers that'll tear our game to shreds each release. My hope is that as updates continue, the list of qualms shrinks. All we can do is move forward, and see what happens.

  17. #5737
    Quote Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
    Branding/Image also applies to public perception, which is the facet I'm referring to in this instance. It seems you're so bent on arguing, that you're willing to subvert an entire conversation to keep the pressure on. I'm not quite sure what you think you're doing, aside from maybe bolstering your ego by 'white knighting' the poor KS backers. You've misappropriated nearly every one of my points to near ludicrousness. I never said the 'art' was the image. But here you go, down the rabbit hole.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Right now, we have about 10 people of various backgrounds and various commitment levels, with more in the pipeline being vetted. I am backing this company at present. We will release this game no matter what. Whether it's taking a while because we're financing it ourselves, or with help from publishers or investors. This project will NOT get shelved. It WILL be released to our best efforts.

    We didn't *want* this project. I told James to run. After Interdiction Studios passed on it, we thought about it. We thought about all of the money that people have spent, and how much James worked on this project. I assumed the risk of acquiring a damaged IP so that we may have the tools to fix it, and after this release goes, the next project. Even if the game turns out to be a monumental failure, my hope is that people will *see* what we've done to correct the mistakes. At least then, people will see effort being made to fulfill the commitment.

    You're also exactly right about negative image. Which is why I'm focused on imaging and branding. This company is NOT responsible for wasting KS money - We haven't seen a dime of it. We haven't had our name drug through the mud - We're coming on to finish what was started incorrectly (in my opinion). I knew this wasn't going to be easy, but that's not why I do things. I don't choose the easy path. This was a perfect chance for us to use the attention of GM (however negative) to show people the changes, and to listen to the negative feedback to strengthen ourselves. We're in a great position from a QA standpoint; We've already got a pack of vicious naysayers that'll tear our game to shreds each release. My hope is that as updates continue, the list of qualms shrinks. All we can do is move forward, and see what happens.
    See that is the thing. You guys may not be the ones that got the KS money but when you took on this game you are now the ones behind the game that had a KS generate 100k and in 3 years hasn't gotten close to producing a game. That may not be fair but it is exactly what it is. Any negative light is going to be shone on the people working on the game.

  18. #5738
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    We gave you the best advice, shut the fuck up and make the game before you talk shit like James has been doing the past 3 years.

    And it is really hard to take this ´new´ company seriously since James has already done the same thing in the past. ´I am in control of GM now, I am CEO of MMOI and Jason is just a silent member of my board of directors´..

    Oh, but we should believe you now, because you know, it is YOU this time, and not just some random nobody that nobody has heard of before.. oh wait.. you are some random nobody that nobody has heard of before. Care to list the games you have completed? Asteroid clones are great! But nobody should worry, because now Joel is here to save the day.

    You sound so similar to Jason back during the KS. Vetting people who are just throwing themselves at you to work for you.
    Fair points. I have nothing to say to satisfy your arguments. All I have is a commitment. If that's not good enough for you, then I'm sorry. I'm not asking for your trust. I'm asking for your attention. If you don't like something - Say it. But please - At least make it constructive. Calling me a random nobody doesn't really help anything. You've said it yourself - No big-time dev would take this on. Maybe I'm a dreamer. Maybe I'm stupid. Who knows? Time will tell. All I can do is try my best, and deal with people like you making assumptions and personal attacks.

    I've never said I was special. I never said we were perfect. Is that what you really took away from all that I've typed? I never said that people were 'throwing themselves at us.' Again, more presumption. Silliness.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    See that is the thing. You guys may not be the ones that got the KS money but when you took on this game you are now the ones behind the game that had a KS generate 100k and in 3 years hasn't gotten close to producing a game. That may not be fair but it is exactly what it is. Any negative light is going to be shone on the people working on the game.
    ...and we're painfully aware of that reality, but our own desires are not the priority; Getting the KS backers a game is. We'll either be forged in the flame of criticism, or burn up in it. Either way is fine by me. At least at the end of the day we can say we gave it our all.

  19. #5739
    What is the point of backing this game? You aren't the one that got the KS money so why do this to yourselves? You are like trying to be the hero of the day and save GM from incompetence but you keep one of the people that is incompetent involved in the project. You are supposedly going to toss your own money at this project to fulfill KS backers and to also finish this game in hopes that it does what exactly?

    You are like trying to fulfill the KS agreement by giving people t-shirts and then being okay with the game if it gets released and it is a total failure? I mean you think a failed game will look good for your new company?

  20. #5740
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    If you think he is trying to 'white knight' for the KS backers then you have really missed the point.
    Not even sure what I am doing here LOL.

    But one point to remember, James is the one who wasted the KS money, and he is still a key part of the new company to the point where he was calling himself CEO of it. No doubt a big part of their branding will be to diminish the appearance of James going forward, but he is still going to be the main one making the game.

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