Trials of Ascension, Shady Practices and the Big Crowdfunding Debate

[Azrile]

Not to mention that without Teddy, they probably won't be able to build a Mac client for me anyway...

Unity ports to Mac automatically.

[Brigadune]

Unity ports to Mac automatically.

I think that's the joke, no teddy to program anything in game so nothing to port over to mac.

[Kelimbror]

Meanwhile ppl are still talking how cool it will be to fly around with dragons.

If video games could be built on false promises and dreams alone, ToA would be game of the century.

[Azrile]

One thing that still bugs me is that there is no announcement (that I could see) on the Kickstarter that Teddy is no longer developing the game for them. They are literally not moving forward in terms of the game's development while still asking for money from donators. I realise it's kind of a negative thing to broadcast to people and if they ended up getting funded they could hire a proper developer (hopefully more than one) but surely it should be something everyone with even the slightest interest in giving money should know? It's not like every last person with a passing interest is going to seek out the forums and go into that specific thread to see that specific post about it.

They have literally raised like $800 in the past 5 days. Also nobody actually has to pay anything for donating right now because it will never be funded.

Should they tell people that they no longer have a programmer? haha.. you are forgetting, this is a company that did a kickstarter for $750,000 and had 200 items in a cash-shop before they even had that one programmer. You think their integrity is going to suddenly kick in and have them admit somewhere that they don´t have anyone working on the game. The people who should be pissed are the ones who bought eyepatches and dances from the cash-shop.

Their forums are absolutely depressing me at this point. I was really hoping there would be more optimism and people talking about a strong finish to put them over the top, but it is a ghost town over there.

[lawow74]

Sooner or later even the most die-hard Kool-Aid drinkers have to realize they're supporting a bunch of incompetent boobs. Teddy didn't quit because we trolled him into it, he wasn't inundated with Internet hate and flushed down a storm drain. Their KS is doomed, and they can't place but so much blame for that on this thread.

[Fornax-]

Yeah, I guess its that desire to not quit "no matter what!" kind of thing, but they were bothered that I was not on board. I got PMs asking what they could do to win back my support. I said I didn't know. I honestly cant see myself supporting them any longer as they consistently are so short sighted, or blind, to things that are happening. I am pretty sure that Brax feels he has worked hard, and that he probably feels betrayed by people like me and Ildefonse who were some of the longest, most outspoken fans of the game for so long, not to mention Ildefonse being probably the highest financial backer. I know some in the community are still trying to be optimistic, but the success of a Kickstarter should NOT depend on three to five fans deciding to not support it. They cant even see that...They just refuse to SEE.

[Kyanion]

Yeah, I guess its that desire to not quit "no matter what!" kind of thing, but they were bothered that I was not on board. I got PMs asking what they could do to win back my support. I said I didn't know. I honestly cant see myself supporting them any longer as they consistently are so short sighted, or blind, to things that are happening. I am pretty sure that Brax feels he has worked hard, and that he probably feels betrayed by people like me and Ildefonse who were some of the longest, most outspoken fans of the game for so long, not to mention Ildefonse being probably the highest financial backer. I know some in the community are still trying to be optimistic, but the success of a Kickstarter should NOT depend on three to five fans deciding to not support it. They cant even see that...They just refuse to SEE.

But Brax worked so hard to like delegate everything to other people. The only coding that man likely ever did was typing $echo or whatever it was in that shitty KS video. Trying to get a KS funded with 3 CEO's who can't be bothered to work hard doing any and every job they can (like learning to code) is like trying to win the lottery without ever buying a ticket.

[Kyanion]

Man the hype is real, they are doing a tech demo showoff on Twitch, 53 people. They are going places.

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Maybe 10 people in game and it lags horribly, it maybe is an updated version of spaghetti beach but is really bright. Still looks wretched.

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Man you can see so many bugs/rough edges in this demo, it wasn't even close to being polished enough for people to play and try and fund a KS. falling through the floors, teleporting/running in place, hella lag with lots of people around, low FPS. Just terrible.

[Deleted]

Meh, I missed it then! Hopefully it's coming on youtube. It sounds so terrible it must be fun!

[dextersmith]

Isn't one of their rewards for the latest live-stream an in-game pet though? How can you possibly offer something that doesn't, and may never, exist as a reward to people?

More virtual stuff with no Teddy? Can't renag ks the way store disclaimer does!

[Kyanion]

More virtual stuff with no Teddy? Can't renag ks the way store disclaimer does!

I dunno considering how rabid the like 50 people were in twitch and being all happy to get items for a game that isn't even playable was kind of laughable.

[Azrile]

Yeah, I guess its that desire to not quit "no matter what!" kind of thing, but they were bothered that I was not on board. I got PMs asking what they could do to win back my support. I said I didn't know. I honestly cant see myself supporting them any longer as they consistently are so short sighted, or blind, to things that are happening. I am pretty sure that Brax feels he has worked hard, and that he probably feels betrayed by people like me and Ildefonse who were some of the longest, most outspoken fans of the game for so long, not to mention Ildefonse being probably the highest financial backer. I know some in the community are still trying to be optimistic, but the success of a Kickstarter should NOT depend on three to five fans deciding to not support it. They cant even see that...They just refuse to SEE.

They said they needed $40,000 to make a demo video that would light up KS and get them the funding they needed to finish the game. You gave them $67,000 and they gave you something that is inferior to every other major KS out there that is asking for significant funding. Not only is the tech demo subpar, but the way they did their PR made it even a worse situation. How can they expect people to remain loyal when they have not lived up to anything they have said and the most impressive thing they added has been a website and cash-shop.

So what do you think happens after the KS? I don´t think any of them will be able to learn enough to pick up where Teddy left off... finishing someone´s half-done work is nightmare, even if you know what you are doing, these guys do not. It is doubtful they will hire someone and keep paying $500 per week, and it is very unlikely anyone will join the team in exchange for a share of óur next kickstarter´ money.

If they do try to learn to do some things themselves, it is not easy in that situation. The networking and the fact that it is someone else´s code will make learning difficult. Like I said early in this thread, before you make any type of MMORPG, or even a decent RPG, you should have made a pac-man, asteroids and Mario clone. Believe it or not, a lot of what you learn making simple games carries over to every other project. Starting out trying to learn by working on a MMORPG will be impossible.

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More virtual stuff with no Teddy? Can't renag ks the way store disclaimer does!

But they only have to deliver that stuff if they are fully funded... and the reality is putting a pet in a game is pretty trivial. I am working on AI right now in my game, and most packages you download come with all the AI already included for basic pets. We are using RAIN and once you have the model in game, you just attach a few scripts to it and they take care of all the behaviors, you can then add fluff stuff on top of that basic AI.

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http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ing-my-own-RPG

smt u guys might want to keep an eye on

Looks promising and reasonable. his art style is very unique, probably a lot of people won´t like it. But he put up a video is about what ToA has done, and he did it himself with no funding... and *gasp* was able to get projectile spells working and even some nice collision affects... one spell bounces off the ground, another explodes on a tree.

[siraldric]

Meh, I missed it then! Hopefully it's coming on youtube. It sounds so terrible it must be fun!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eBAOHFESPk

not the live stream ToA did but one i did yesterday

[Deleted]

Yeah, I guess its that desire to not quit "no matter what!" kind of thing, but they were bothered that I was not on board. I got PMs asking what they could do to win back my support. I said I didn't know. I honestly cant see myself supporting them any longer as they consistently are so short sighted, or blind, to things that are happening. I am pretty sure that Brax feels he has worked hard, and that he probably feels betrayed by people like me and Ildefonse who were some of the longest, most outspoken fans of the game for so long, not to mention Ildefonse being probably the highest financial backer. I know some in the community are still trying to be optimistic, but the success of a Kickstarter should NOT depend on three to five fans deciding to not support it. They cant even see that...They just refuse to SEE.

mhm, and the moment I start saying things that they were uncomfortable with, they start to call me a jerk and claim that I wasn't as big a fan as they were at first. Sure my words may have been strong because I was and still am extremely pissed off about the whole thing, but you're absolutely right, they are just blind to it.

In a way it's almost unhealthy for the developers: they are being encouraged by an extreme minority group like this to do things that they probably shouldn't. Though it is all the devs fault in the end, to be fair.

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They said they needed $40,000 to make a demo video that would light up KS and get them the funding they needed to finish the game. You gave them $67,000 and they gave you something that is inferior to every other major KS out there that is asking for significant funding. Not only is the tech demo subpar, but the way they did their PR made it even a worse situation. How can they expect people to remain loyal when they have not lived up to anything they have said and the most impressive thing they added has been a website and cash-shop.

So what do you think happens after the KS? I don´t think any of them will be able to learn enough to pick up where Teddy left off... finishing someone´s half-done work is nightmare, even if you know what you are doing, these guys do not. It is doubtful they will hire someone and keep paying $500 per week, and it is very unlikely anyone will join the team in exchange for a share of óur next kickstarter´ money.

If they do try to learn to do some things themselves, it is not easy in that situation. The networking and the fact that it is someone else´s code will make learning difficult. Like I said early in this thread, before you make any type of MMORPG, or even a decent RPG, you should have made a pac-man, asteroids and Mario clone. Believe it or not, a lot of what you learn making simple games carries over to every other project. Starting out trying to learn by working on a MMORPG will be impossible.

There was some other guy who was like "if the KS fails again, we won't quit, we'll just try again with something different"; they are so determined to ToA that they probably are already planning the next step for ToA. They'll probably try something like Steam Early Access or Greenlight or something, IDK. They've certainly been discussing it. Or Indiegogo, where they could keep the little money they raise from fans.

[Deleted]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ing-my-own-RPG

smt u guys might want to keep an eye on

Yeah saw that and just thought fuck... that's really really good for a solo dev (not even an indie studio, it's literally one guy cranking all that out) and he obviously has really solid ambitions for it while approaching it in the sane an sensible way - "aim for a steam greenlight once I've got solid gameplay and proof of it then a very humble kickstarter so I can finish it up".

That chap and people like him are indie game development done right but I bet he's never going to get anywhere near as much attention as half-baked try-to-fund-before-even-making-anything projects like ToA.

[Azrile]

Yeah saw that and just thought fuck... that's really really good for a solo dev (not even an indie studio, it's literally one guy cranking all that out) and he obviously has really solid ambitions for it while approaching it in the sane an sensible way - "aim for a steam greenlight once I've got solid gameplay and proof of it then a very humble kickstarter so I can finish it up".

That chap and people like him are indie game development done right but I bet he's never going to get anywhere near as much attention as half-baked try-to-fund-before-even-making-anything projects like ToA.

yep, I agree completely. The whole idea is that you should be playing something before anyone else in the world even knows about it. The big thing is if he can keep his ambition in check. Once you go public, people are going to start filling his head with ideas that might outreach his abilities. It is one of the biggest problems with new developers, the idea of feature creep, especially when it is something that you are not even sure you have the tech ability to accomplish. So far, I think the only limitation he mentioned is his inability to model in 3d, but for a game like his, that is cheaply solved. Where things will break down is on the programming side if he can´t do something himself and needs something custom done.

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There was some other guy who was like "if the KS fails again, we won't quit, we'll just try again with something different"; they are so determined to ToA that they probably are already planning the next step for ToA. They'll probably try something like Steam Early Access or Greenlight or something, IDK. They've certainly been discussing it. Or Indiegogo, where they could keep the little money they raise from fans.

I don´t know, they have pretty much outed themselves that they can´t do anything themselves. As far as Indiegogo.. it is interesting because I am sure they could trick people out of money who are not aware that it is different than kickstarter, but I think it would be significantly less than the 24k they have now. I would think that most people would realize that 10k is not enough to make this game and that giving $100 out of that $10,000 is going to basically be lost money.

The number of people posting on their forums right now is less than are posting in this thread. This is for a game that is going through an active kickstarter. I gave them this advice last spring. They need to shut their mouths, go underground and finish a large part of the game themselves. Their problem is they are everywhere, sending out press releases, and just failing miserably at actually making a game. Just search engines are going to kill them in the future.. Trials of Ascension is basically dead weight at this point, they almost need to change the name and name of the company again.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I kind of wonder of that 50.000$ how much is left.

[dextersmith]

The number of people posting on their forums right now is less than are posting in this thread. This is for a game that is going through an active kickstarter. I gave them this advice last spring. They need to shut their mouths, go underground and finish a large part of the game themselves. Their problem is they are everywhere, sending out press releases, and just failing miserably at actually making a game. Just search engines are going to kill them in the future.. Trials of Ascension is basically dead weight at this point, they almost need to change the name and name of the company again.

Someone with multiple identities isn't suspicious.....

[Kyanion]

I was impressed really, considering what they had shown us so far.
Also, you can’t forget that it was made by a single person with 3 “CEOs” telling him what to do, try to develop something like a game by yourself with a couple of different people forcing you with unrealistic requests, then tell me how it goes ~

Also bugs like those are kind of normal considering the state of the game, what kind of troubles me is the priorities, instead of focusing on further developing the humans and the content that surrounds them, things such as their building system (I personally enjoyed it), like having a couple of mobs to show PvE and shit, they added stuff like the Rakni, that so far can only walk around the map and perform auto-attacks just to say they have an entire new race!

Silly really >.<



Typical, soon they will be saying that is our fault, we brainwashed you guys xD
Well, on the bright side could be worse! Considering there were people being called dumbasses and idiots for asking what would happen if the kickstarter failed xD

I get that it is much harder with 3 CEO's trying to direct you but at the same time for the amount of money that was being paid out it does not look worthy of that. It wasn't even close to being ready for being shown off for people to stream it to others and try a KS. That last part has nothing to do with Teddy but some of the really bad aspects, like the waves showing up weirdly through the sand and stuff is just some quality control failures.

But you make a great point, the priorities were totally messed up. Instead of having enemies using AI to fight players they had that crappy looking spider whiffing auto attacks everywhere, and trust me, that combat was NOT ready to be shown off. The stamina system wasn't working so people rolling all over, auto attacks would cleanly go through people (which I imagine is due to the numbers of players on at once making everything lag), just all sorts of little issues that add up to the demo not being ready. Streamers that were unbiased (and not being paid for it) would have ripped it apart because you just don't try and fund a KS with a piece of shoddy work like that.

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I love how they are determined to keep up with that fan-fic.errrr lore of that dragon story on the KS updates.

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on another side note, Crowfall is 114% funded.

[aehbb]

thank you man