Trials of Ascension, Shady Practices and the Big Crowdfunding Debate

[Azrile]

WoW needs to be this!

and if you put that in even a single player game, you are looking at 10 FPS. Gassy did some nice work though. I said before, he should be putting his stuff up for sale on the asset store.

[derium]

Also, did I understand your first video correctly Derium where you showed a picture (Derium's Sword) that appeared to be a reward for donating $35000 to mean that you donated that much to GM?

No no no, I didn't give that much haha. That was a stretch goal for the KS. Sorry, I should have presented that better.

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Sorry, the only thing he is legally required to do is the t-shirts and show an honest effort to make the product he listed.

Exactly my point, he never showed any effort. Refer back to one of the three things I demanded.

Also, with the "go for the throat" comment, you assume (you do that a lot apparently) it was all about Jason. I've said a million times it's not. I apparently can't convince you otherwise, and in a round about way you're claiming I'm a liar. So really, assume what you want. I know what I'm after.

[Deleted]

Greed Monger looks so fucking terrible, how the hell have they managed to get 100k?

What's the 'best' video out there that should motivate me to donate (Although I never will :P), I'm curious.

[Taojnhy]

Greed Monger looks so fucking terrible, how the hell have they managed to get 100k?

What's the 'best' video out there that should motivate me to donate (Although I never will :P), I'm curious.

I don't know, I thought Crowfall looked worth backing; so much so that I made it my first KS. Shroud of the Avatar followed shortly.

Or did you mean the best Greedmonger video? If so, I think the answer is: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Azrile]

Greed Monger looks so fucking terrible, how the hell have they managed to get 100k?

What's the 'best' video out there that should motivate me to donate (Although I never will :P), I'm curious.

You see, that is what James should be held responsible for. Back during the kickstarter 3 years ago, they did EXACTLY what I talked about a few pages ago here. They bought stuff off of the asset store, then they took screenshots of the demo scenes in those assets and used THAT for their kickstarter. Those screenshots looked incredible because they were just showcasing assets... they weren´t a real game that had to deal with FPS issues or load balancing..

Then 3 years later, James released that video in January and people are in an uproar because after 3 years and $100k, the quality of what is presented to players dropped drastically. The excuse he gave was that now they actually had to deal with FPS issues, so they had to reduce the quality of game... well duh.. in other words, they lied back during their KS by making people believe those screenshots were of an actual game.

He only quit GM last week because of that.. because he could not explain away the screenshots used in their KS compared to the crappy video he released. He was getting a ton of heat, so he quit. Now you have this whole drama, but nobody is going back and talking about how deceptive their KS was by using those fake screenshots.

Here is a link to the screenshots they used during the KS to promote the game

http://www.gamerevolution.com/screen/greed-monger

Now take a look at the video they made 100k and 3 years later.

There is no way he will ever be able to get the quality of those screenshots in a game, not even close. Look at his video.. it has 1 player, no real AI, no real work being done in the background... It is like ToA, any gains he makes in performance by tweaking his networkin is going to be more than lost when he actually has to add things to the game.

#1 If you build a complete game with all your systems, all your AI, All your stuff going on and you have a FPS of 20. Then you can go back and tweek everything and get your FPS up to 60.

#2 But these guys have FPS of 15 without having hardly anything in the game.

They then try to confuse people by pointing out that most games do #1, so they then make it sound like they can also increase performance. If ToA and GM actually had all of their systems in the game, it would kill the client.

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Exactly my point, he never showed any effort. Refer back to one of the three things I demanded.

I am not calling you a liar, I just disagree with you. This comment of yours that I quoted.. I just disagree completely with this. I think the chat logs that James posted DO SHOW that Jason did make an effort, he bought everything James asked for, he brought in a lot of team members and paid them. He tried to educate himself. You can say that he was naive and made bad decisions, but I don´t think after reading those chat logs you can say he didn´t make an effort. In fact, at a couple spots he was calling out James for not being around. Jason said something like ´it seems like now that I bought you that new computer, the only thing you have time to do is play games´ (paraphrase for laziness).

And I am saying this honestly. The biggest mistake Jason made in all of this was hiring James and trusting him. James did nothing but waste money and change engines and systems so much that for 3 years he completely negated any progress he made. That Video he released in January after 3 years and $100k is worse than what Teddy was able to do with ToA in 7 months and little money. It almost crushes my soul to say this, but at the point Teddy left ToA, ToA was much further along than GM.

In the end, this is all just banter anyway. ToA And GM are never getting made. Nothing you are saying in your videos is going to matter because Jason is gone now, and James and Joel took over all responsibility. Jason will never be able to do anything in the gaming industry again, but that was true 2 years ago also. His reputation is no worse now than it was before, and probably the chat logs that James released probably helped it a bit. I know in my case, it did.. up until the lawsuit threats on MMORPG, the stuff he said in the first two years of that chat are reasonable, but a little naive.

And just to point out, when this thing all started a week ago, I was a fan of James, I even mentioned him a few times earlier in this thread. But after reading the logs that he posted himself, I realized how incompetent and immature he is.

[draykorinee]

I don't know, I thought Crowfall looked worth backing; so much so that I made it my first KS. Shroud of the Avatar followed shortly.

Or did you mean the best Greedmonger video? If so, I think the answer is: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

How did SoTA come after Crowfall, I backed SoTA in 2013 :S

[derium]

I am not calling you a liar, I just disagree with you. This comment of yours that I quoted.. I just disagree completely with this. I think the chat logs that James posted DO SHOW that Jason did make an effort, he bought everything James asked for, he brought in a lot of team members and paid them. He tried to educate himself. You can say that he was naive and made bad decisions, but I don´t think after reading those chat logs you can say he didn´t make an effort. In fact, at a couple spots he was calling out James for not being around. Jason said something like ´it seems like now that I bought you that new computer, the only thing you have time to do is play games´ (paraphrase for laziness).
.

I agree about the chat logs, I'm just saying it was stupid on Jason's part to only slam James in public, while it was James releasing the chat logs. Jason failed in an epic manner to present the public with that information. Again, since he is the owner, I feel it was on his shoulders to explain the entire clusterfuck.

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Greed Monger looks so fucking terrible, how the hell have they managed to get 100k?

What's the 'best' video out there that should motivate me to donate (Although I never will :P), I'm curious.

Their KS video was SUPER misleading. It made the game look like so much progress was already done, including some smoothing of graphics. Of course they just used the base foundations of the engine. they in no way expressed that the game code wasn't even started at the time.

[Taojnhy]

How did SoTA come after Crowfall, I backed SoTA in 2013 :S

Well...truth be told, I only found SoTA after I got a "Hey, check out this project that we think is cool and deserves help!" KS message from the Crowfall team. I stopped keeping up with Garriot after the Tabula Rasa fiasco.

[Azrile]

I agree about the chat logs, I'm just saying it was stupid on Jason's part to only slam James in public, while it was James releasing the chat logs. Jason failed in an epic manner to present the public with that information. Again, since he is the owner, I feel it was on his shoulders to explain the entire clusterfuck.
.

Again, I disagree. You are forgetting to mention that James quit by announcing it first on the forums, and locking Jason out of the forums at the same time. Jason probably spent the first few hours after James´s announcement just getting control back of the forums so he could make an announcement. And come on. James made the first post on the forums, blamed everything on Jason while blocking Jason from even giving his side of the story. When Jason finally got back on the forums, you expect him to be reasonable? Jason finally came back and gave his side of the story, which was mainly supported by the chat logs that James released himself. Even at the end, James bought that Vortex package which is useless for an MMORPG and was just a final big waste of Kickstarter money.

Seriously, you hate this guy way too much. If you want to demand to know about the KS money, freaking ask James about all the stupid stuff he kept buying every week that if he had spent 5 minutes doing research, he would have known would never work for what he wanted to do. There must be 10-15 times in that thread where James spends days trying to convince Jason to buy something.. telling him how needed it is, and how much it will change everything... and most of the time, not even 2 days after buying it, James says ´ah, this is garbage, I can´t use this at all´.. REPEATEDLY.

THAT IS WHERE YOUR KICKSTARTER MONEY IS.

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Greed Monger looks so fucking terrible, how the hell have they managed to get 100k?

What's the 'best' video out there that should motivate me to donate (Although I never will :P), I'm curious.

There are 3 interview videos that Jason did with Markee Dragon that are impressive. Markee Dragon is an old-school UO player with a lot of experience and even he donated to GM. In the third video, Markee Dragon asked Jason about all the rumors about it being a scam and Jason´s past. This was all while the KS was still live

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDo3YtgjwUo

Most of the stuff Jason addressed, like selling viagra and running for Governor of Ohio. They also talked about using Unity Assets in the game. I mostly agree with Jasons position and said this early in the thread. As an indy developer, you are stupid if you are making a realistic looking game and you are not buying plants, rocks and typical creatures (wolves bears etc). It is just a waste of time.. buy the everyday stuff, and have your artists instead make the stuff that is unique to your game. I do think GM and Jason went overboard with it though.. I would never use bought stuff as the highlight artwork for my website. Jason was also off about the price of creating a model. He said $18,000 to create a fully animated boss mob... $1800 is more accurate (about 2 weeks of work for a skilled artist). So yeah, if you can buy that dragon for $50, or have one of your artists spend two weeks making a similar model.. you buy the dragon.

[Azrile]

http://www.trialsofascension.com/for...gendered.4802/

Roflmao xD

well, at least they are talking about the game. for the past week, the only comments on their forums at all were two guys talking about their forum avatars.

[Kyanion]

well, at least they are talking about the game. for the past week, the only comments on their forums at all were two guys talking about their forum avatars.

Yeah let's talk about specific things that will be done in the game, because that game is totally getting made! Clueless forum people on ToA stay clueless!

[dextersmith]

http://www.trialsofascension.com/for...gendered.4802/

Roflmao xD

Forget about making a game, let's talk armor!

[jrhager84]

He showed up on mmorpg, said he's new to gm and that he's sorry. I asked him what he's apologizing for and he said he heard Jason was unpopular and he's here to fix things. I asked how he could apologize when he doesn't even know why he's sorry (without cussing) and found I was reported for verbally attacking him and had my post deleted. James then pm-ed me to try to win me over for gm and his new company with Joel. I paraphrased fuck off, I don't give a shit then deleted it. Both are d-bags imo. Iirc, he may have hinted at how things might improve with him and Joel leading the project in a new direction. I may have misinterpreted but wonder if this recent gm incident was conspired.

Edit: Joel started here as jrhager84

I can absolutely assure you that I have NEVER reported anybody's posts on ANY forum regard GM or anything. In that regard, I have no idea who reported you, but I can guarantee you it was not me. To be honest, I've seen a lot worse hahaha. I know that GM's brand is tarnished. I'd also like to point out that in our contract, we only took over the IP and assets to finish the game; Not a hold harmless or complete indemnification for Jason. We are only responsible for GM from the point of the contract forward. Any other legal matters are Jason's to tend to. We are indemnified.

We took on GM for these reasons:

1. There is ZERO recourse for any KS backer. There's no legal case, and no way for people to get their money back. If we abandoned the project, it would've just fallen by the wayside, and nobody would ever get anything. As long as we were legally protected against any potential legal backlash, we wanted to do everything in our power to resume development and get KS backers a product in their hands. I'm also personally financing the shipment of the shirts that Jason is sending to me this week, to honor pledges.

2. We've made mistakes. Nobody is coming out of this looking good. Our pride is WAY less important than fulfilling a promise we made to the backers and community. Sure we've made some terrible decisions, but I'd like to think that we're doing something right by standing up and taking the beating instead of running away. Remember - It would have been VERY easy for James and myself to walk away with ZERO accountability. Taking that into consideration though - Who benefits from that? James would have lost years of work, I would have lost the money I've spent trying to put us in a new direction, and the KS community will have watched the GM ship finally sink in flames - along with their money.

3. Moving forward, all of these experiences and negative comments serve as a reminder to us. A reminder of how NOT to run things, and of how NOT to treat the community. I am personally responding to every single hate comment/mail/critique/issue/etc to let people know that we're here, and we're listening. Sure, we're not going to win everybody over, but that was never the point to begin with. I *welcome* dissent. If you do a little bit of research, you can see me engaging in every single vocal critic of GM. I do so because these are the people we should be listening to. These are the people that are mad because they once cared enough to put money down, or back this project. We take that very seriously, and James and I have been really trying to gauge the critics. In the spirit of transparency, I'm actually surprised at how *little* negativity is being perpetuated. I anticipated far greater, and I'm thankful that there *are* those that believe in us to pull this thing around. For those that don't agree, I suppose time will tell. I'm a man of my word, and I feel that people will realize that as time moves on.

Hopefully you guys can give us the time to show you that we're doing everything we can to fix the GM brand. I know a lot of people have been speaking ill of Jason, and I am not here to go either way in that regard. All I can say is now, Jason is COMPLETELY removed from GM in every aspect. He has NO further involvement in the development of this game, and James and I are completing this project out of love. We have not received one red cent from KS funding, and are working on options that would allow us to continue to develop the game with no additional public funding. I've already paid for things out of my pocket, as a gesture of good faith. I can certainly understand everybody's grievances with GM so far, but it's under new ownership now, with a new direction.

If anybody has any specific questions in regards to the recent acquisition, please feel free to reach out to me. I encourage any and ALL feedback. Thanks guys. I certainly appreciate the dialogue!

-Joel

[Kyanion]

I have some feedback for you. Good fucking luck getting that game off the ground and actually playable. That game looks just awful, has very little fan support left and it just wasting people's time by trying to drag it along further and eventually cough and wheeze its way into the market before it dies the painful death that is what happens to most small time MMOs that have no idea how to create/market such a game.

[Azrile]

Hi Joel,

It is great of you to post here. I really dont´want to talk about legalities, reputation, blame or any of that ( although I can admit I have done some of it). All of my comments are just about reality.

The reality is that James has had 3 years with this project, he has had an open wallet for most of that time and had the ability to get people hired under him and the logs show all of the crazy stupid things he bought and later discarded because he had no clue what he was buying, nor had any financial discipline to research stuff before wasting money. Right now, he admitted he is developing 3 versions of the game because he still doesn´t know which networking solution will actually work. The video he released in January is pathetic.

In every post James has made, it all comes down to the same pattern. Blame someone else for what has gone wrong and promise some amazing progress soon. In 2012, he was talking about Alpha being 3 weeks away.

I never met or talked to Jason, but I can imagine one of the things he is doing now is making a nice long list of all the stuff he bought for James that James immediately decided he didn´t need after begging for it like a 2 year old in a candy store. $90k doesn´t really go that far when you are spending $3k on stuff that your lead developer said was vital, but then discards after 2 days.

All of that stuff now belongs to James, was bought with KS money, and is in no way helping GM be developed. There was very little in the chat log that showed Jason was hamstringing James, so there is no reason to believe that James is suddenly going to produce much more than that crappy January video.

But I guess we will all wait for an update from James, where he promises some miraculous progress that is coming ´soon´ . I personally think you are worrying too much about reputation and how to treat a community. You shouldn´t even be worrying at all about a community because you still don´t have a game to even talk about.

I will give you the same advice I gave the ToA devs. Shut your mouth, disappear from forums, learn to program and get some actual freakin work done in your game and stop making these ´I feel it is necessary to clear the air´.. posts that don´t mean shit when everyone can look at that January video and know you guys don´t have shit done yet in your game. Shut up and make the game.

Honestly, this game is dead. All of the best ideas of this game ( which I like) regarding plots and housing are crazy server intensive and require some technical things that have never been done before. Look at the lag in that video, the lack of anything other than a few spells and mobs with no AI ( which I guess is one step up over ToA). There is no way a guy who made the game in that video will be able to pull off the networking needed to do the major features of your game. And after all the stuff James revealed about himself, you can pretty much count on not a dime of players money until after the game launches.

[Espe]

I will give you the same advice I gave the ToA devs. Shut your mouth, disappear from forums, learn to program and get some actual freakin work done in your game and stop making these ´I feel it is necessary to clear the air´.. posts that don´t mean shit when everyone can look at that January video and know you guys don´t have shit done yet in your game. Shut up and make the game.

Could not have said it better myself.

[Kyanion]

Could not have said it better myself.

Yup if you want that game to actually get made, shut the hell up and make it. Otherwise the game is exactly what I said it is. Dead.

[jrhager84]

I have some feedback for you. Good fucking luck getting that game off the ground and actually playable. That game looks just awful, has very little fan support left and it just wasting people's time by trying to drag it along further and eventually cough and wheeze its way into the market before it dies the painful death that is what happens to most small time MMOs that have no idea how to create/market such a game.

Think of the alternative. I'd rather work my ass off getting *something* to people, than to have them pay money and get nothing. My hope is that in the future, your views will be different. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, no matter how much I personally disagree with them. You are also in the minority (thankfully), as many have offered their support of this. Only time will tell, but I'm confident that we'll change some minds. I also pray you never have to have your work so viciously attacked by people that may or may not have even half of the story. It's a very stressful situation, and one that not many have the strength to overcome. It also takes more of a man to stand and take his licks, rather than run away. Remember - James could have left and never looked back, with ZERO consequences, but here he is; Standing front row taking the hits, and promising to do better. Not a bad way to handle this, I'd conclude.

Hi Joel,

It is great of you to post here. I really dont´want to talk about legalities, reputation, blame or any of that ( although I can admit I have done some of it). All of my comments are just about reality.

The reality is that James has had 3 years with this project, he has had an open wallet for most of that time and had the ability to get people hired under him and the logs show all of the crazy stupid things he bought and later discarded because he had no clue what he was buying, nor had any financial discipline to research stuff before wasting money. Right now, he admitted he is developing 3 versions of the game because he still doesn´t know which networking solution will actually work. The video he released in January is pathetic.

In every post James has made, it all comes down to the same pattern. Blame someone else for what has gone wrong and promise some amazing progress soon. In 2012, he was talking about Alpha being 3 weeks away.

I never met or talked to Jason, but I can imagine one of the things he is doing now is making a nice long list of all the stuff he bought for James that James immediately decided he didn´t need after begging for it like a 2 year old in a candy store. $90k doesn´t really go that far when you are spending $3k on stuff that your lead developer said was vital, but then discards after 2 days.

All of that stuff now belongs to James, was bought with KS money, and is in no way helping GM be developed. There was very little in the chat log that showed Jason was hamstringing James, so there is no reason to believe that James is suddenly going to produce much more than that crappy January video.

But I guess we will all wait for an update from James, where he promises some miraculous progress that is coming ´soon´ . I personally think you are worrying too much about reputation and how to treat a community. You shouldn´t even be worrying at all about a community because you still don´t have a game to even talk about.

I will give you the same advice I gave the ToA devs. Shut your mouth, disappear from forums, learn to program and get some actual freakin work done in your game and stop making these ´I feel it is necessary to clear the air´.. posts that don´t mean shit when everyone can look at that January video and know you guys don´t have shit done yet in your game. Shut up and make the game.

Honestly, this game is dead. All of the best ideas of this game ( which I like) regarding plots and housing are crazy server intensive and require some technical things that have never been done before. Look at the lag in that video, the lack of anything other than a few spells and mobs with no AI ( which I guess is one step up over ToA). There is no way a guy who made the game in that video will be able to pull off the networking needed to do the major features of your game. And after all the stuff James revealed about himself, you can pretty much count on not a dime of players money until after the game launches.

1. We're not asking for any more money; At least not from the public. Any funding will be done from a business perspective, and won't cost any consumer a penny. I've already incurred personal expenses regarding this acquisition, and it's a cost I'm willing to take on. Our commitment will always be to honor the kickstarter backers. That will never change.

2. I apologize, but the 'shut up and make the game' comment is a moot point, and is a pointless comment at that. Firstly, I'm not involved in the programming of the game, so to assume that my time spent here infringes on the game's development is facile, in my opinion. The image of the brand is VITAL to our success, and it's very advantageous for us to publicly announce the change in leadership regarding GM, as people have been VERY vocal about the previous management of the IP. In this way, people will be able to see the changes, and come to their own conclusions in time. I certainly don't aim to waste my time with this, but I *did* know that we were going to encounter vehement opposition. It's also vital that we listen to feedback, whether it be good or bad, so that people can take the new information, and change (or keep) their opinions. This is a new era of transparency in the GM movement. If you don't like this decision, then the blame rests entirely with me.

3. I've been a silent participant/observer since this IP was announced. I was not affiliated with GM directly at the time, but offered consultation with James (and a couple of times with Jason) throughout the process. I thoroughly disagreed with how the game was being handled and developed, but I had no authority to make any changes. All I could offer was some sage advice from the business perspective. I *will* say that James is a very driven person, but can be overwhelmed. That said, I absolutely have NO doubt that the scenarios as you described them are not specifically how things have went. Remember, he and I started a different IP together, with a team of about 25, and before our devs were poached by higher-level companies (of which we're immensely proud of them, by the way) we only changed directions when we hit an obstacle regarding compatibility, costs, etc. I have a very hard time believing that his demeanor completely changed when he got involved in GM. I also have to say (as I've said to Jason directly on multiple occasions): It doesn't even matter, even if it WERE true. The fact of the matter is Jason was the head honcho, and it was his job to delegate, and ensure things were getting done. Now that Jason has stepped away from the GM brand, it now falls on my shoulders to make sure that we're hitting milestones, and making real progress.

4. I *completely* understand that it's foolish to think that James can single-handedly deliver the calibre of game we're seeking to create. Even in the brief period that MMOI has acquired the GM brand, we've already made contact with numerous studios and industry professionals for help in finishing this project. We've been very fortunate to have people behind us in that regard, as without help, we're doomed. After having chats with even the most staunch critics about our new vision for GM, the VAST majority seem to really understand our position, and support us moving forward. I am grateful for that.

I should have you know that we've finally gotten the remainder of the server data from Jason, and are setting up our own dedicated server this week. We've also since ported the code to Unity 5, and are awaiting a UMA Avatar system update to polish the networking framework. That should be available for inclusion in our client by end of April. There *has* been progress, but we're stuck in the cycle of making sure we put out a game that *looks* good using tech that we can afford.

In time, this transitional period will be over, and we will be back at work, making a game that people with either love or hate -- but at least there will be a game for people to love or hate. This has never been about that. Nobody is doing this to look good. We're doing this because we made a commitment to backers, and we're gonna give them our best. If that's not good enough, then that will be on us, and we will have to live with that.

Hopefully, moving forward, you'll see changes in GM leadership and progress that will challenge your prior beliefs of GM and of James. I suppose time will tell. Thank you for your opinions, and I hope for a continued dialogue.

Best,

-Joel

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Could not have said it better myself.

Yup if you want that game to actually get made, shut the hell up and make it. Otherwise the game is exactly what I said it is. Dead.

Please read section 2 in my reply to Azrile, regarding that comment.

[Kyanion]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, no matter how much I personally disagree with them. You are also in the minority (thankfully), as many have offered their support of this.

In which part am I in the minority? You think I'm in the minority in thinking that game looks like a pile of crap? Because I saw the 'gameplay' video and holy crap that was just awful. If that isn't it, am I in the minority in thinking the game is dead? Nope. Am I am in the minority in thinking getting *something* to the people that backed the KS instead of you know a legit game is okay? Because I'm sorry, what is going to come out of this with no more funding? A wonderful MMO that people can't wait to play or a game that gets cancelled or is just terrible when it is released.

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Also, I really DO think you just need to shut up and make the game even if that does not mean YOU personally go and make any part of it. But to have these talking heads that are associated with this game rush to defend things or post to 'clear the air' or whatever it is actually HURT more than they help. You know what people WANT to see? People busting their ass working hard to get this game out. They really don't care about people posting in threads, or defending this and that.

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"We're not asking for any more money; At least not from the public. Any funding will be done from a business perspective, and won't cost any consumer a penny." You think game dev companies are going to back this project? Where is this funding going to come from? You have as much chance as getting a dime of funding as ToA does, which is no chance at all.

[Taojnhy]

Well Joel, for what it's worth I wish you the best of luck getting GM off of the ground. I'm not sure how you plan to accomplish that task though since as far as we've been able to dig up, Mr. Proctor has yet to release a complete product with or without your guidance, including the project you mentioned above (Rise of Heroes, I assume?). Hopefully you know him well enough by now to know how best to motivate and keep him on track.

Another point that bears repeating: in three years time, the only tangible thing the GM community has seen was that recent video which, to put it kindly, didn't appear to be have been worth the delay. I understand that you're looking to bring more help on board, but considering that Mr. Proctor has previously both a) chased off hired help and b) personally recommended hiring at least one person who was something of a scam artist, I really hope you have a plan to handle this as well.

I'm sure he's a great person once you really get to know him but personally I wouldn't trust Mr. Proctor to run a lemonade stand let alone handle any kind of management position for a company; my opinion of him is that he's about as stable as nitroglycerin and has the judgmental prowess of a sponge.

I do wish you all the best though Joel; you've got a long and uphill road ahead. I appreciate that you took the time to post here, and I suppose we'll just have to see if MMO Interactive can pull GM off to the general satisfaction of the community.