1. #5241
    Haha, as soon as this thread is about to wither away, it rises out of the ashes like a phoenix. Thank you jrhager84 for doing the exact same thing as the ToA-scrubs did before you, come in here and defend the game.

    No matter how much you keep posting here on this irrelevant thread, it's not gonna help you. Start making the game. If I was an actual developer, not a self-proclaimed one, I would not give a flying fuck about what's going on in this thread. I would work on the game, not waste time arguing "but we're SO a gaming company! You'll see!"

    Grown the fuck up.

  2. #5242
    Quote Originally Posted by Maddoc View Post
    Haha, as soon as this thread is about to wither away, it rises out of the ashes like a phoenix. Thank you jrhager84 for doing the exact same thing as the ToA-scrubs did before you, come in here and defend the game.

    No matter how much you keep posting here on this irrelevant thread, it's not gonna help you. Start making the game. If I was an actual developer, not a self-proclaimed one, I would not give a flying fuck about what's going on in this thread. I would work on the game, not waste time arguing "but we're SO a gaming company! You'll see!"

    Grown the fuck up.
    Waste time arguing? I was unaware that I was a programmer, so I didn't really realize that talking on here was impeding progress on the game. Funny how your ENTIRE comment is riddled with insults and flippant remarks, and you close it with 'Grow the fuck up.'

    Maybe heed your own advice? Just a thought.

  3. #5243
    I believe that the team was solid, and was mis-managed. That's my personal belief, and changes will be made should progress not continue.

    You sound exactly like Jason from 2012. You think leadership and team-building is enough? it isn´t. This is computer programming, not marketing. You do not know enough to recognize incompetence. You will fall into the same trap Jason did. You will have to trust James and the other guys when they make excuses for failures. It will never be their fault, they just need XXXX now because YYYYY did not do what they thought it would. Read the chat logs, that is exactly what he did to Jason. Nothing was ever his fault, and there was always a miracle fix coming in a few weeks. He has already pulled it on you with this UMA2 stuff. I am in no way a network expert, but I know UMA, and there is NOTHING coming that is going to help your game in any significant way.

  4. #5244
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
    Waste time arguing? I was unaware that I was a programmer, so I didn't really realize that talking on here was impeding progress on the game. Funny how your ENTIRE comment is riddled with insults and flippant remarks, and you close it with 'Grow the fuck up.'

    Maybe heed your own advice? Just a thought.

    I like this guy . I hope the transition goes well and people who donated get the game they wanted.

  5. #5245
    Quote Originally Posted by Adalaar View Post
    I like this guy . I hope the transition goes well and people who donated get the game they wanted.
    Lol yeah because they are TOTALLY going to make it happen with the same guy who produced that video after 3 years of work. THAT is the person doing the coding not this person talking a good game.

  6. #5246
    Pit Lord Fallen Angel's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Haunting Vegeta
    Posts
    2,368
    What exactly is your intent as far as "giving the backers a game"? Is it just going to be playable? Is it going to be within the scope presented to the backers? What games have your developers worked on so we have an idea of their work?

    These are just a handful of questions that need to be taken into consideration when trying to instill some kind of acceptance into people, especially those who have frequented this thread. We've seen the same things come from the ToA crowd, and look where they are.

    What exactly is it that YOU do as far as GM is concerned?

  7. #5247
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    10 FPS would be worth, but I doubt it would run that low. The unreal engine has always been pretty darn solid and the new one is looking like it will continue that. OK a beast of a rig would be required but it'd run well IMO. Saying that didnt the previous unreal engine get released for general use not that long ago?

    If it is, may have to grab that and have a little prattle around in it.
    Yeah, Unreal is free now, which is probably the thing that forced Unity to make Unity Pro 5.0 free, which was like a Christmas present for me, complete surprise that saved me $1500.

    People do benchmarks all the time comparing Unity to Unreal. There really isn´t that much of a difference as far as what kinda FPS you can get with the exact same scene. I may be remembering it backwards, but Unity 4.0 vs Unreal, Unreal did better up until you started using more than one light source or something like that. The difference was never big enough to make me use it. For unreal, you need to know C++ which is ´real´ programming. Unity uses C# which is more like javascript and built for accomplishing things for games. That was always my reason for using Unity and Hero Engine ( HE uses it´s own script language that is similar to C#)

  8. #5248
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    I believe that the team was solid, and was mis-managed. That's my personal belief, and changes will be made should progress not continue.

    You sound exactly like Jason from 2012. You think leadership and team-building is enough? it isn´t. This is computer programming, not marketing. You do not know enough to recognize incompetence. You will fall into the same trap Jason did. You will have to trust James and the other guys when they make excuses for failures. It will never be their fault, they just need XXXX now because YYYYY did not do what they thought it would. Read the chat logs, that is exactly what he did to Jason. Nothing was ever his fault, and there was always a miracle fix coming in a few weeks. He has already pulled it on you with this UMA2 stuff. I am in no way a network expert, but I know UMA, and there is NOTHING coming that is going to help your game in any significant way.
    Far from it. I know enough to get by, but certainly am no expert. In that sense, I *do* have friends who *are* experts. People who I can rely on to help me if/when needed. Also, from a team standpoint, the additional of new members will ensure that everything moves forward smoothly. If someone is disjointed, it will become apparent quickly. The reason we need the new avatar system is to go with Atavism. Atavism is on our short-list, as we own the license for it. However, we're currently exploring other options that would be better-suited. It also comes down to cost-benefit and time to recode. We don't want to start over, but we'll go as far back as we have to to ensure that we have a stable platform to deliver this game. If you have any ideas - I'm ALL ears. Seriously. Feedback is important. If you dedicated HALF the time helping me as you did criticizing me, then we'd probably release this year! hahaha

    Quote Originally Posted by Adalaar View Post
    I like this guy . I hope the transition goes well and people who donated get the game they wanted.
    I appreciate the kind words. It's had its bumps, but we're making progress.

  9. #5249
    Quote Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
    Waste time arguing? I was unaware that I was a programmer, so I didn't really realize that talking on here was impeding progress on the game. Funny how your ENTIRE comment is riddled with insults and flippant remarks, and you close it with 'Grow the fuck up.'

    Maybe heed your own advice? Just a thought.
    I was unaware that I called you a programmer, can you point it out for me? You are working on this "project", yes?

    Quote Originally Posted by jrhager84
    I'm glad I don't share the same bleak vision as you in regards to this acquisition. I meant you're the minority, as the majority of feedback I've seen personally has been a LOT more positive than your remarks. Even the negative has been constructive, and has helped us move forward. There really isn't anything resembling legitimate critique in your responses, really. You hate the game. Ok. Noted. We're making it better. You think we're doomed. Great. I disagree.
    Are you not?

    If yes, why are you here? Surely, there must be hundreds of different ways for you to spend your time, rather than sitting here on MMOC and defending yourself?

    And indeed, my comment is a ridicule of you, because that's what you are. A joke. You cherrypick the questions you want to answer and avoiding shit like this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    You mean the ´image´ of the priest and the elf on the website? Yeah, Unity Asset Store $25 each I believe. I think the hog-man is $35.

    Here, I will help you out if you want to sue Unity for stealing the copyright on your branding

    Elf Girl $10
    https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/4286

    Your amazing branding.. you didn´t even bother to use your own render... nope, just stole the picture directly from the artist.

    Here is pig head $40
    https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/3770

    Again, didn´t even bother to do your own render, just stole it from the artist and put it on your website for branding.

    And here is the Priest also $40

    https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/2259

    But you are in luck, those last two were done by the same artist, so when you sue them for copyright infringement, you only need to sue two people.

    Is that branding? Can you please define it again?
    You argue around definition of words (branding) but don't have shit to brand.

    So yes, grow the fuck up.
    Last edited by Maddoc; 2015-04-08 at 10:47 AM.

  10. #5250
    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
    What exactly is your intent as far as "giving the backers a game"? Is it just going to be playable? Is it going to be within the scope presented to the backers? What games have your developers worked on so we have an idea of their work?

    These are just a handful of questions that need to be taken into consideration when trying to instill some kind of acceptance into people, especially those who have frequented this thread. We've seen the same things come from the ToA crowd, and look where they are.

    What exactly is it that YOU do as far as GM is concerned?
    Our goal is to provide the backers with a game that is as close to the original concept as possible, within the scope of our abilities. Our old Creative Lead (of which we're trying to get back) did QA for Sony. Others do freelance work for various mobile games/indie titles/etc. Nobody is a 'rockstar' if that's what you're going for.

    I handle the business side of MMOI/GM. I ensure top-down operation, and make sure milestones are being hit. (read: I'm the whip-cracker). I also handle fiscal planning, critical pathing of labor and resources, and maintaining sustainable growth rates. I field PR, and help source labor and tech (servers, etc.) I also finance a lot of this right now.

  11. #5251
    Quote Originally Posted by Adalaar View Post
    I like this guy . I hope the transition goes well and people who donated get the game they wanted.
    I´ve read the plans for GreedMonger. There is no way they are going to pick people up off the street and accomplish anything like they have planned. If James keeps being the man, it is never going to get made. If they turn it over to someone competent, they are going to start from scratch. Nobody competent is going to look at what happened so far with this game and want to join the team. Again, you have the same problem as ToA.. There are some unique ideas, but anyone that could accomplish them would just do it themselves and stay away from the mess. If I had the networking chops to do the housing and plot system that GM wants to do, I would not join GM, I would just do it myself with a fresh kickstarter and no bad press. The same way if I wanted to make a game with permadeath and spider characters, I wouldn´t join ToA, I would just do it myself. GM and ToA, less than zero right now.

  12. #5252
    Quote Originally Posted by Maddoc View Post
    I was unaware that I called you a programmer, can you point it out for me? You are working on this "project", yes?



    Are you not?

    If yes, why are you here? Surely, there must be hundreds of different ways for you to spend your time, rather than sitting here on MMOC and defending yourself?

    And indeed, my comment is a ridicule of you, because that's what you are. A joke. You cherrypick the questions you want to answer and avoiding shit like this:



    You argue around definition of words (branding) but don't have shit to brand.

    So yes, grow the fuck up.
    I cherry-picked nothing. My comments about branding were NOT in reference to those assets, so the precedent argument is consequently moot. If anything, that's a demonstration of *my* comments being cherry-picked. You've also failed to account that we're in the process of transitioning the game to our new servers - (i.e. there's nothing to *do* at this point aside from wait for the servers to be set up). Good looking out, though! :-/

    My time is just that; MY time. I will decide how I spend my time, not you. You have no control over me, and I don't know you or respect you enough to heed ANY of your advice.

    You also don't phase me. I don't care what you think of me. You don't influence my decisions, as you have nothing of value to present to me. I can handle constructive criticism, but blatant attacks will be swiftly forgotten.

    If there's something constructive you'd like to say, then I'd suggest you get on with it. Otherwise, I can think of a thousand different more-constructive ways for YOU to spend your time as well... ;-)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    I´ve read the plans for GreedMonger. There is no way they are going to pick people up off the street and accomplish anything like they have planned. If James keeps being the man, it is never going to get made. If they turn it over to someone competent, they are going to start from scratch. Nobody competent is going to look at what happened so far with this game and want to join the team. Again, you have the same problem as ToA.. There are some unique ideas, but anyone that could accomplish them would just do it themselves and stay away from the mess. If I had the networking chops to do the housing and plot system that GM wants to do, I would not join GM, I would just do it myself with a fresh kickstarter and no bad press. The same way if I wanted to make a game with permadeath and spider characters, I wouldn´t join ToA, I would just do it myself. GM and ToA, less than zero right now.
    Your assessment is valid, however much I disagree with it. If it weren't for our prior involvement in this project, we would have walked. Giving the KS backers nothing was just not in the cards as far as we were concerned.

  13. #5253
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    Yeah, Unreal is free now, which is probably the thing that forced Unity to make Unity Pro 5.0 free, which was like a Christmas present for me, complete surprise that saved me $1500.

    People do benchmarks all the time comparing Unity to Unreal. There really isn´t that much of a difference as far as what kinda FPS you can get with the exact same scene. I may be remembering it backwards, but Unity 4.0 vs Unreal, Unreal did better up until you started using more than one light source or something like that. The difference was never big enough to make me use it. For unreal, you need to know C++ which is ´real´ programming. Unity uses C# which is more like javascript and built for accomplishing things for games. That was always my reason for using Unity and Hero Engine ( HE uses it´s own script language that is similar to C#)
    Yeh dabbling with unity for the last few weeks, it works pretty well. Having to dust off a lot of my programming knowledge which was well out of date. I will have to get the unreal engine as well and see whats on offer there. It is good that unity followed suit and put 5.0 for free, stuff like that is always welcome. Just like when valve used to put their world building tools out there. Used to love making little mods and maps etc for them.

    I will be working on my own indie game mostly for fun, but first I have been following the online tutorials for unity and then dabbling with ideas on my own time. The guys who run both the ToA project and GM seem to just outsource it which IMO for such a small unit is just suicide. If I was to do what they did it would be no better than trying to run a KS with project notes on the back of a fag packet.

    Not saying I am going onto KS or anything but you get the point. I will make my own little game for my friends and I but it won't be a fast project, certainly since I am learning how to use unity (which is pretty simple so far but I only do a bit of work on it during weekends). If these guys seriously want to make a game they should have put the time in to do it them selves. Which was your point all along tbh.

  14. #5254
    Pit Lord Fallen Angel's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Haunting Vegeta
    Posts
    2,368
    Quote Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
    Our goal is to provide the backers with a game that is as close to the original concept as possible, within the scope of our abilities. Our old Creative Lead (of which we're trying to get back) did QA for Sony. Others do freelance work for various mobile games/indie titles/etc. Nobody is a 'rockstar' if that's what you're going for.
    What I'm going for is specific examples of what your developers have done. I would want to know the people I'm supporting actually have experience in creating some semblance of a successful game. Do they have experience working on an MMO? It takes very little to say X has worked on "something" because it's providing no information at all.

    Who was your CL? Why are you trying to get them back?

    I hope you don't think I'm trying to attack you, but I'd rather have the full picture for what you're spinning rather than bits of information that really mean nothing.

  15. #5255
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Yeh dabbling with unity for the last few weeks, it works pretty well. Having to dust off a lot of my programming knowledge which was well out of date. I will have to get the unreal engine as well and see whats on offer there. It is good that unity followed suit and put 5.0 for free, stuff like that is always welcome. Just like when valve used to put their world building tools out there. Used to love making little mods and maps etc for them.

    I will be working on my own indie game mostly for fun, but first I have been following the online tutorials for unity and then dabbling with ideas on my own time. The guys who run both the ToA project and GM seem to just outsource it which IMO for such a small unit is just suicide. If I was to do what they did it would be no better than trying to run a KS with project notes on the back of a fag packet.

    Not saying I am going onto KS or anything but you get the point. I will make my own little game for my friends and I but it won't be a fast project, certainly since I am learning how to use unity (which is pretty simple so far but I only do a bit of work on it during weekends). If these guys seriously want to make a game they should have put the time in to do it them selves. Which was your point all along tbh.
    C'mon man! Outsourcing MMO's is the future! Stop living in the past! It is way easier to talk a good game on forums than actually do anything that looks like work or coding!

  16. #5256
    Quote Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
    The reason we need the new avatar system is to go with Atavism. Atavism is on our short-list, as we own the license for it. However, we're currently exploring other options that would be better-suited.
    And James is BSing you again...... You need UMA2 to go with Atavism? First off, that is completely untrue. Second, I already gave you a link to where you could have downloaded UMA2 many months ago. If this was really holding up your development on Atavism (not true anyway) then the solution has been available.

    How I can help you? The problem you have is like I said. You are making a MMORPG ( the hardest possible game to make) using an engine ( Unity) that was not created to make MMORPGs and you are using an MMORPG kit that doesn´t have many of the most important features to make a MMORPG. This isn´t about willpower or uphill battle... This is about reality... GM is not getting made anywhere near how it is designed with plots and stuff like that.

    My advice to save yourself some money. The first thing you should do is get them to build a small world, and get 100 people logged in at the same time using the client. If you cannot get 100 people running around an empty world without lag, than there is no sense buying artwork, or coders or nothing... the system simply will never be able to scale high enough for the game you have designed.

    I am curious, I have never seen this. Have Atavism devs ever actually did a test like this on any of their games? Have you ever seen a screenshot with a 100 people logged in at the same time?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    I will be working on my own indie game mostly for fun, but first I have been following the online tutorials for unity
    Did you see the tutorials they did with the Nightmare survival shooter and Rogue-like game. They basically walk you through making an entire game and give you the art assets along with it. I watch every video they put up, I am always amazed at how I can take 50 lines of code to do something they did in 3. I never fail to learn some technique, even from their basic tutorials

    http://unity3d.com/learn/tutorials/modules

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    C'mon man! Outsourcing MMO's is the future! Stop living in the past! It is way easier to talk a good game on forums than actually do anything that looks like work or coding!
    The only thing better than outsourcing an MMORPG is getting your forum posters volunteer to build it for you...

  17. #5257
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    Did you see the tutorials they did with the Nightmare survival shooter and Rogue-like game. They basically walk you through making an entire game and give you the art assets along with it. I watch every video they put up, I am always amazed at how I can take 50 lines of code to do something they did in 3. I never fail to learn some technique, even from their basic tutorials

    http://unity3d.com/learn/tutorials/modules

    - - - Updated - - -



    The only thing better than outsourcing an MMORPG is getting your forum posters volunteer to build it for you...
    The nightmare one I did it was really easy to do. Having multiple monitors made it very simple at home (I have a 4 Meter Long work station I built at home that runs along a wall in my spare room where I have my PC then my 32" TV for playing xbox/watching sky tv on and another space for my GFs PC) Had unity tutorial on one screen and the program in another. Just downloaded the assets and did a monkey see monkey do. Then after I did it I had a little play around with what they showed me to see if I could change the level around a bit. Helps me understand what they did a little more tbh.

    Its the way forward on learning tbh, much better than when I first did modding years ago on half life! I just don't get why they did not put a little effort in. Imagine if they took the time in 2012 to before their KS and took a few years to plug away and learn. You could really have made a lot more than toilet paper notes. I think War for the underworlds a good example. I think they are using unity now the games "released" it is a bit buggy being a small team but it does play well when it works (memory leaks aside making level 10 almost unplayable) Those guys took the time to put up their work and actually produced something after all that time.

  18. #5258
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    I think War for the underworlds a good example. I think they are using unity now the games "released" it is a bit buggy being a small team but it does play well when it works (memory leaks aside making level 10 almost unplayable) Those guys took the time to put up their work and actually produced something after all that time.
    It is, and they have. Their launch was messy, it was really rushed(some suggested on account of Dungeons 2 coming out), but they're trying to squash their bugs and get the rest of the game's functionality up and going. They were very transparent about their project, kept it updated and talked about its development week to week. They were fans of a classic game and wanted to make a spiritual successor. And because they spent their time working on the game and not sitting around with their fingers in their noses waiting for some schlub to make it for them, guess what?

    They succeeded.

    Food for thought, wannabe's.

  19. #5259
    Quote Originally Posted by lawow74 View Post
    It is, and they have. Their launch was messy, it was really rushed(some suggested on account of Dungeons 2 coming out), but they're trying to squash their bugs and get the rest of the game's functionality up and going. They were very transparent about their project, kept it updated and talked about its development week to week. They were fans of a classic game and wanted to make a spiritual successor. And because they spent their time working on the game and not sitting around with their fingers in their noses waiting for some schlub to make it for them, guess what?

    They succeeded.

    Food for thought, wannabe's.
    Indeed, the rushed release aside they've done a really good job considering. I like how the game is very simple, yet has a lot of complex elements you can delve into. You can tell its made by fans as its got the very same feel that Dungeon Keeper had right down to the voice acting. They did release too early IMO with some glaring problems. But it is a small team and they are doing regular updates to the game AND to the community via posts etc. So they are a good example of an indie team making something worth while. Then we see the mess of ToA and now GM? Makes me shake my head that things like this come to light as I like the idea of kick starter and I dont want peoples faith in it shaken by setups like this polluting it.

  20. #5260
    I'd like to suggest that we tone down the vitriol against Joel here. Not much point in our, to borrow Derium's phrase, going for the throat. Clearly the majority of us posting recently here, myself included, don't see GM having a snowball's chance in Scottsdale; yet we are all perfectly capable of expressing that without unnecessary personal attacks and name-calling.

    That said Joel, while I appreciate that you're trying to cleanup and damage control for not only GM but also Mr. Proctor, I hope you understand that most of us here are not remotely fans of Mr. Appleton, but we also see that while perhaps Mr. Proctor couldn't be held -legally- accountable for GM's technical failings under ECG we certainly do hold him responsible nonetheless. In truth, you're not only having to work on GM's brand (which I agree with others here seems premature right now; but I'm hardly qualified to offer marketing advice), but more importantly on Mr. Proctor's brand.

    This is the sticking point, I feel: by essentially replacing Mr. Appleton with yourself while Mr. Proctor still is employed in making GM, you would have us believe that Mr. Appleton was the reason that GM has stagnated. We see it a bit differently though, and again I want to stress that we are -not- supporters of Mr. Appleton, but we can't ignore that the one person we consider directly responsible for the work done on GM over the last three years and the content of that video is still at the technical helm.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •