Trials of Ascension, Shady Practices and the Big Crowdfunding Debate

[Fornax-]

Nattering nabobs of negativity rejoice!

Tophat has a point, but his presence here is also a potential negative.

Hell my post is pointing out negativity too! Gah! We're all assholes!

The one redeeming thing is the fact that only unreasonable people get anything done.

[lawow74]

You speak of people throwing insults then use the old tried and true 'acting like schoolchildren' line. Classy!

Oh, but it's okay for him to do it cos he's The Great White Knight, Champion of Fair Play on the Internet! He wants to look down his nose at people posting here, fine. But he's no better for judging us than we are for judging these fools/liars/thieves we call out. At least the people we're insulting actually hurt others by taking money for things they can't and/or won't ever complete. All the rest of us did was call them names.

[Kyanion]

Oh, but it's okay for him to do it cos he's The Great White Knight, Champion of Fair Play on the Internet! He wants to look down his nose at people posting here, fine. But he's no better for judging us than we are for judging these fools/liars/thieves we call out. At least the people we're insulting actually hurt others by taking money for things they can't and/or won't ever complete. All the rest of us did was call them names.

Yup pretty much. Which is why I could care less what he has to say, if he does not like it he can skip over my posts or put us on ignore. I'm not going to have someone White Knight for people that are foolish CEO/Devs that have ripped off people of plenty of money. 100k for GreedMonger and 67k for ToA. Neither one of those two 'gaming companies' had any business trying to make a MMO out of the gate.

[dextersmith]

The 'peanut gallery' forum is not helpful, nor is it a constructive appropriation of time.

You joined the 'peanut gallery' forum and seem to believe everyone is required to help. Don't dictate what's appropriate for my time.
GM's Jason 2.0

[Kyanion]

You joined the 'peanut gallery' forum and seem to believe everyone is required to help. Don't dictate what's appropriate for my time.
GM's Jason 2.0

Haha. Wait...you mean we were supposed to actually try and help this group of fails build a MMO? Isn't that the reason they got 100k from a Kickstarter? I mean they've had this programmer guy for 3 years! He's still there! They can do this and they shouldn't need OUR help for it! Oh...wait.

[Kyanion]

They totally didn't get any KS money! I mean that guy working on the game with all those mod packs for Unity totally didn't get those through KS money! That computer he is using...nope not the KS money!! Pssht totally not responsible!

[lawow74]

You joined the 'peanut gallery' forum and seem to believe everyone is required to help. Don't dictate what's appropriate for my time.
GM's Jason 2.0

They can read the thread, they can see how we respond to people who've done the same kind of stuff they have, and somehow they think it'll be different for them? Okay, if you think poking the wasp's nest won't get you stung because you're somehow different from the other people that tried it, go ahead. Just don't cry when the inevitable happens. And don't be surprised when we laugh at your stupidity, either. Like Azrile said, we're here for entertainment, too.

[Azrile]

They totally didn't get any KS money! I mean that guy working on the game with all those mod packs for Unity totally didn't get those through KS money! That computer he is using...nope not the KS money!! Pssht totally not responsible!

Dude, but you are forgetting, that was only when MMOI was a fake company that had James as the CEO and Jason on the board of directors. Now MMOI is a ´real´company. And let´s not gloss over the fact that even back then, 2 years ago, Joel here was one of the first 10 people to actually set foot in the gameworld.

Joel, sorry, but nobody is going to buy you coming in at the last second as a completely different company to deliver for the backers. The only 3 people, yourself, james and the community manager that anyone knows is involved in the new company, were also involved in the old GreedMonger. Again, the similarities to ToA when Brax tried to change company names from Shadowpool to Forged Chaos, yet kept the same people.

[jrhager84]

You joined the 'peanut gallery' forum and seem to believe everyone is required to help. Don't dictate what's appropriate for my time.
GM's Jason 2.0

I meant 'forum' as 'public forum' (i.e. place for expression). I was not referring to MMO-C as a 'peanut gallery.' You have not been helpful in the least, so I would be remiss to point that out. Nobody is *required* to help. That said, calling me Jason 2.0 doesn't really serve any purpose either. Again, I guess your time is that cheap that you can sit here taking pot-shots. I'm OK with that. Just don't expect me to give credence to your opinions.....

I haven't taken a dime of anybody's money. None. So yeah, I'd say there's a difference.

- - - Updated - - -

Dude, but you are forgetting, that was only when MMOI was a fake company that had James as the CEO and Jason on the board of directors. Now MMOI is a ´real´company. And let´s not gloss over the fact that even back then, 2 years ago, Joel here was one of the first 10 people to actually set foot in the gameworld.

Joel, sorry, but nobody is going to buy you coming in at the last second as a completely different company to deliver for the backers. The only 3 people, yourself, james and the community manager that anyone knows is involved in the new company, were also involved in the old GreedMonger. Again, the similarities to ToA when Brax tried to change company names from Shadowpool to Forged Chaos, yet kept the same people.

Time will tell.

[Azrile]

I already predicted what will happen, you guys are currently developing your new game, you will post some rah-rah crap for a few months, then abandon GM. I think you are similar to Jason, and you are underestimating the s-storm that is coming.

[khalltusk]

I already predicted what will happen, you guys are currently developing your new game, you will post some rah-rah crap for a few months, then abandon GM. I think you are similar to Jason, and you are underestimating the s-storm that is coming.

I hate to say it, but I can see it happening. The way this guy responds to your posts is very similar to the way the ToA "devs" replied to you. These supposed server migrations when are they due to complete? As it seems to be rather convenient that all work must stop until thats done. Like no art assets can be made no storyboarding road maps for in game areas can't be done etc.

¬_¬

[NotADevAlt]

Hi - long-time lurker here momentarily de-lurking to say you guys are hilarious. Please carry on!

I hate to say it, but I can see it happening. The way this guy responds to your posts is very similar to the way the ToA "devs" replied to you. These supposed server migrations when are they due to complete? As it seems to be rather convenient that all work must stop until thats done. Like no art assets can be made no storyboarding road maps for in game areas can't be done etc.

Based on his self-professed role in the project as the 'whip-cracker', Joel is effectively working in a project management capacity. I am honestly surprised he has the capacity and inclination to be in these forums and post so frequently as he should be working on the above things highlighted above, in addition to making an honest assessment of his assets, what he needs, and creating a realistic budget/project plan, among many other things. MMOI was officially created just this past week and the new deal/management has only been in place since last weekend - this is a crucial time to make sure your game's foundation is solid before you proceed. And honestly? If Joel & co. don't know if what they have is solid, they should be seeking professional advice and opinions and entirely discounting the possibility that they would or should find anything helpful or useful in learning how to make a MMORPG from anonymous users of an obscure internet forum (no offense intended to MMO-C).

[lawow74]

And honestly? If Joel & co. don't know if what they have is solid, they should be seeking professional advice and opinions and entirely discounting the possibility that they would or should find anything helpful or useful in learning how to make a MMORPG from anonymous users of an obscure internet forum (no offense intended to MMO-C).

Welcome, none taken, and spot on. Of course, professionals cost money. Opinionated people on the Interwebs is free.

[Taojnhy]

Hi - long-time lurker here momentarily de-lurking to say you guys are hilarious. Please carry on!



Based on his self-professed role in the project as the 'whip-cracker', Joel is effectively working in a project management capacity. I am honestly surprised he has the capacity and inclination to be in these forums and post so frequently as he should be working on the above things highlighted above, in addition to making an honest assessment of his assets, what he needs, and creating a realistic budget/project plan, among many other things. MMOI was officially created just this past week and the new deal/management has only been in place since last weekend - this is a crucial time to make sure your game's foundation is solid before you proceed. And honestly? If Joel & co. don't know if what they have is solid, they should be seeking professional advice and opinions and entirely discounting the possibility that they would or should find anything helpful or useful in learning how to make a MMORPG from anonymous users of an obscure internet forum (no offense intended to MMO-C).

Hey, welcome to the show!

Some people have said the same thing you have here, albeit in more succinct and acrimonious phrasing. Joel has explained that by stating that his purpose here is to work on their image and GM branding. A bit premature and cynical in my opinion, but there you go.

[jrhager84]

Hi - long-time lurker here momentarily de-lurking to say you guys are hilarious. Please carry on!



Based on his self-professed role in the project as the 'whip-cracker', Joel is effectively working in a project management capacity. I am honestly surprised he has the capacity and inclination to be in these forums and post so frequently as he should be working on the above things highlighted above, in addition to making an honest assessment of his assets, what he needs, and creating a realistic budget/project plan, among many other things. MMOI was officially created just this past week and the new deal/management has only been in place since last weekend - this is a crucial time to make sure your game's foundation is solid before you proceed. And honestly? If Joel & co. don't know if what they have is solid, they should be seeking professional advice and opinions and entirely discounting the possibility that they would or should find anything helpful or useful in learning how to make a MMORPG from anonymous users of an obscure internet forum (no offense intended to MMO-C).

A few points:

I'm a VERY fast reader and typer. I also only check when I have free moments. I don't expect you to believe me, and it honestly doesn't matter.

We are working on a new budget/plan while the servers are migrated. No work has *stopped* as khalltusk mentions.

I'm smart enough to know that I *don't* know everything needed to get this off the ground. That's exactly *why* I've solicited the help of other, more-experienced developers and programmers to tell us what we need to do.

Honestly, if you had really read the thread, and my posts, those questions and concerns would have already been answered.

Again, at this point, there's nothing I can say to make you believe me. I've bowed out of the conversation, and will let you know when there's something note-worthy.

Also, cute name. I see what you did there. ;-)

[Scyclone]

Hey, welcome to the show!

Some people have said the same thing you have here, albeit in more succinct and acrimonious phrasing. Joel has explained that by stating that his purpose here is to work on their image and GM branding. A bit premature and cynical in my opinion, but there you go.

Just hopping in as this thread has been quite entertaining but I fully agree with Taojnhy's response here. To be honest, if he REALLY wants to work on the image and branding, he should stop giving a damn or wasting his time with what people are saying on a random forum. There are expectations that need to be met. If he wants to improve the image, they should start by delivering first. No one is expecting some incredible thing over night... but the work needs to be done, and to beat a dying horse... why are they spending any fraction of time delaying themselves from working on something clearly more important.

For the 'new'/'old' whatever developer here: You earn a reputation, you don't demand one. If you've earned a shitty reputation, it is on you to redeem that reputation, not on everyone else to give you a break. Either take the lashings and begin digging yourself free from the hole, or collapse under it to be buried and left behind.

Actions speak louder than words, make something happen, then come talk to us lol.

[jrhager84]

Just hopping in as this thread has been quite entertaining but I fully agree with Taojnhy's response here. To be honest, if he REALLY wants to work on the image and branding, he should stop giving a damn or wasting his time with what people are saying on a random forum. There are expectations that need to be met. If he wants to improve the image, they should start by delivering first. No one is expecting some incredible thing over night... but the work needs to be done, and to beat a dying horse... why are they spending any fraction of time delaying themselves from working on something clearly more important.

For the 'new'/'old' whatever developer here: You earn a reputation, you don't demand one. If you've earned a shitty reputation, it is on you to redeem that reputation, not on everyone else to give you a break. Either take the lashings and begin digging yourself free from the hole, or collapse under it to be buried and left behind.

Actions speak louder than words, make something happen, then come talk to us lol.

I never demanded a reputation. In fact, I said I *understood* why people were upset and skeptical. Again, please point out where I demanded *anything* from anybody? I never expected people to implicitly trust what I'm doing. I never expected anybody to do anything. Although, it seems equally harmful for others to 'predict' my intentions. It's just a way to stir the pot, and ensure more chaos. If you really feel I'm gonna do something shady, wait and see. I'm not taking money from anybody, and the damage was already done by a prior company I had ZERO control over. I had NO say in the actions of ECG in regards to the GM brand. In fact, I fought James/Jason about certain decisions - but it was outside my scope. Now that I have authority, I aim to fix those mistakes.

All my aim was, was to come in here and tell people that we're listening, and that we've made TONS of mistakes, and that we're changing how things are done. I'm not sure what else is expected of me. Also, for the nth time, saying 'stop talking and go do something' is implying that I can't do both. The appropriate steps are being taken; This conversation is not impeding on that. So I don't understand why people keep bringing up that moot point.

[Scyclone]

I never demanded a reputation. In fact, I said I *understood* why people were upset and skeptical. Again, please point out where I demanded *anything* from anybody? I never expected people to implicitly trust what I'm doing. I never expected anybody to do anything. Although, it seems equally harmful for others to 'predict' my intentions. It's just a way to stir the pot, and ensure more chaos. If you really feel I'm gonna do something shady, wait and see. I'm not taking money from anybody, and the damage was already done by a prior company I had ZERO control over. I had NO say in the actions of ECG in regards to the GM brand. In fact, I fought James/Jason about certain decisions - but it was outside my scope. Now that I have authority, I aim to fix those mistakes.

All my aim was, was to come in here and tell people that we're listening, and that we've made TONS of mistakes, and that we're changing how things are done. I'm not sure what else is expected of me. Also, for the nth time, saying 'stop talking and go do something' is implying that I can't do both. The appropriate steps are being taken; This conversation is not impeding on that. So I don't understand why people keep bringing up that moot point.

It can all simply be summarized as, you shouldn't do both. You should stay quiet, get your house in order, make some of these changes you are talking about, and then come here to discuss things. You are trying to do a marathon before you know how to walk. You can't just waltz in and expect things to change just because you are here now and trying to fix things. Start fixing some of them, then take the credit for it.

[jrhager84]

It can all simply be summarized as, you shouldn't do both. You should stay quiet, get your house in order, make some of these changes you are talking about, and then come here to discuss things. You are trying to do a marathon before you know how to walk. You can't just waltz in and expect things to change just because you are here now and trying to fix things. Start fixing some of them, then take the credit for it.

Fair point. I can't possibly disagree with that. My intent was not to 'take credit' for anything, but to inform people that we KNOW that we messed up. I apologize if people think that I'm doing anything else. Hopefully that clears it up some.

[Azrile]

Just hopping in as this thread has been quite entertaining but I fully agree with Taojnhy's response here. To be honest, if he REALLY wants to work on the image and branding, he should stop giving a damn or wasting his time with what people are saying on a random forum. There are expectations that need to be met. If he wants to improve the image, they should start by delivering first. No one is expecting some incredible thing over night... but the work needs to be done, and to beat a dying horse... why are they spending any fraction of time delaying themselves from working on something clearly more important.

For the 'new'/'old' whatever developer here: You earn a reputation, you don't demand one. If you've earned a shitty reputation, it is on you to redeem that reputation, not on everyone else to give you a break. Either take the lashings and begin digging yourself free from the hole, or collapse under it to be buried and left behind.

Actions speak louder than words, make something happen, then come talk to us lol.

You guys are missing the WHOLE point of why he is here. He is not here to salvage GM, or build the reputation of GM. The only purpose he has right now is to build up the reputation of MMOI. That has nothing to do with building a game, or creating anything. They have already abandoned GM development and are just now waiting the mandatory amount of time to announce it... you know, you can´t take over a game, steal it´s assets, and then the next day announce you stopped working on it. No way man, you have to fill the internet with posts professing your love of the backers and your commitment and devotion to following through and giving 100%. Devotion, you bleed for the old game, you work tirelessly... all those PR words he and James have been spouting. He has to make sure that everyone thanks you for taking over a dead game for no reason except that you think the backers of that game are owed your best effort.

He has been co-owner of a new company for 4 days and already has made 46 posts on some random forum defending MMOI´s intentions. For good measure, he has also linked concept art for the game they will announce in about 3 months. You are all confused because you are thinking his purpose here is to get GM up and running it is not. His purpose is to get the brand MMOI up and running... and that requires nothing but posting on different forums. He and James have been just as active on RPGCodex and the few threads that are on MMORPG.com before getting deleted.

As far as branding. Just curious why you stuck with the MMOI name. You see, it has already been spread around the internet that James Proctor said Jason is on the board of directors of MMOI. James Proctor has already said Jason is on the board of directors, and it has been quoted numerous places along with the fact that James said he is the CEO. I´ll tell you the same thing I told the Devs of ToA.. there is this company called Google, and they are in the business of making it easy for people to find stuff. For the next 3 months, when people search for MMOI, what they are going to find stuff that says that Jason Appleton is on the board of directors of MMOI and that James, the CEO is the one who is quoted as saying it.

As far as MMOI, you are also going to get people finding out that while James said he was CEO and Jason Appleton was on the board of directors, some internet slueths found out that the company never existed and for years James has been using CEO of MMOI in his signature on various forums despite there not being a company at all. I could be wrong, but when James was asked about the other members of the BoD, didn´t he say something about ´other industry execs´ or something like that.

Sorry Mr. PR boss, but you done fucked up using MMOI. This is the internet, there is nothing more important to branding than Google when you are a nobody. People Google MMOI, they are going to get Jason on the board of directors, James as CEO, James getting called out for the company not being a real company and of course that MMOI was working on GreedMonger a year ago.

things in italics are wild speculation based on the most likely outcome and are no way slanderous because the writer of this post could very well have mental illness and be short on meds. Or possibly just have a slight friday afternoon buzz after cutting out of work an hour early.