Trials of Ascension, Shady Practices and the Big Crowdfunding Debate

[Orange Joe]

No, it'll mess up google again.

Oh christ...... stop with that. It never messed it up in the first place.

[Taojnhy]

ok, forgive me for 'mis-quoting' Appleton then.

Proctor is the useless dude in this particular story then.

What's the general stance about Appleton then? Honest guy who had to unfortunately deal with Proctor? I'm still a bit puzzled about this particular story, them being called almost identical only made me more confused :P

I wouldn't call Appleton "honest"; far from it. In the case of GM however, it appears that his honesty wasn't the main reason behind GM failing so spectacularly; Appleton was supremely ignorant and incompetent. At least, not from the evidence seen thus far. Proctor's honesty, on the other hand, does seem questionable as does his competency.

[Deleted]

I wouldn't call Appleton "honest"; far from it. In the case of GM however, it appears that his honesty wasn't the main reason behind GM failing so spectacularly; Appleton was supremely ignorant and incompetent. At least, not from the evidence seen thus far. Proctor's honesty, on the other hand, does seem questionable as does his competency.

Thanks you for clarifying it to me. Perhaps now I can follow the discussion much better :P I never even knew what happened with Greed Monger, I only saw Azrile bring it up every now and then prior the ToA Kickstarter.

[Azrile]

ok, forgive me for 'mis-quoting' Appleton then.

Proctor is the useless dude in this particular story then.

What's the general stance about Appleton then? Honest guy who had to unfortunately deal with Proctor? I'm still a bit puzzled about this particular story, them being called almost identical only made me more confused :P

Appleton - Narcissistic, asshole, douche bag..... oh wait, that is me..... my personal opinion. He had some success in his past and has some money. I think this all happened because he saw the asset store for the first time in 2012. In the chat logs, he seems convinced that the cheap stuff he could buy in the store could get him most of the way to a MMORPG. He bragged in the logs and in Unity forums about having bought everything. I think he spent the first year convinced that Proctor could get the job done. After the first year I think he realized his mistake, and then a year later he started trying to get out of the project. Again, Proctor is the one who released those chat-logs, and I think it is clear that Appleton was not trying to scam anyone. He was buying everything Proctor asked for, he was hiring a bunch of people with varying degrees of success, but most of all he was trying to manage the team and get things done. The first year of chat log, it was obvious to anyone with a tech background that Proctor was feeding him shit and taking advantage of the fact that Appleton didn´t know anything tech-side. Aside from the blow-up no MMORPG.com when someone called him a scammer, and some of the BS about the t-shirts, it is hard to see where he did anything wrong except being naive and trusting Proctor those first two years. But in the end, he is accountable because he is the one who hired Proctor without any due diligence or common sense. The first 5 minutes of the chat log is all I would have had to see to know the Proctor wasn´t capable of being anything more than a volunteer quality assurance person.

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Sooo.. I just received this PM sent to me here on MMO-C. It appears that someone tried to contact Chaud and get my personal information to contact me about ToA. Instead of giving my personal contact information, Chaud instead forwarded it to me as a PM..which begs the question that if someone wants to contact me, why wouldnt´they just PM me here themselves.....

Originally Posted by grahamtempleton
Hello, I'm a writer at Vice.com and I'm looking to reach out to a user named Azrile, to do with his thread on Trials of Ascension (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...s+of+ascension). I don't want to spam your forum with 10 posts to reach out for an interview. If you would, could you please forward this on to Azrile? It would be much appreciated.
---

For the user Azrile:
Hello, my name is Graham Templeton. I'm researching a possible piece about Trials of Ascension's odd development history. Particularly, the behind-the-scenes process of "making" the game, of spending years coming home from a day-job and dreaming about something with the help of a community of dedicated fans. And about the process of slowly being forced to let go of those dreams in the face of harsh reality, and continued failure.

Anyway, you're a big part of that story. I'm looking to get at the human side of it all, and a big part of that has to do with their feelings about all the negative buzz that exists around them. If only by virtue of your ToA thread's google ranking, you've had a lot to do with that buzz. My personal feeling on it, having spoken to them, is that they are just extremely naive, not intentionally manipulative. However, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter as well.

Let me know if you're open to talking. I always find audio (phone or skype) is the best way to discuss thing like this, but text could do as well if you prefer. Let me know what works for you and I'll do my best to accommodate your schedule for a quick chat.

Let me know,
Graham

__________________________________________

So this professional tech writer thinks that one thread in a 3rd party website mainly about WOW is the reason TOA´s KS failed? And really, I think I´ve shown over the past year that it would not take 10 posts to get my attention in this thread LOL.. and finally, MMO-C has a PM system...

- - - Updated - - -

I wouldn't call Appleton "honest"; far from it. In the case of GM however, it appears that his honesty wasn't the main reason behind GM failing so spectacularly; Appleton was supremely ignorant and incompetent. At least, not from the evidence seen thus far. Proctor's honesty, on the other hand, does seem questionable as does his competency.

you nailed it. The other big difference between the two is that Appleton is abrasive with the community, so isn´t liked very much. Proctor is the ´victim´ who spent 3 years on the forums getting people to like him. And as someone pointed out early in this thread, James seemed to like to report people on MMORPG.com and get their posts deleted when they called him out on his lies. Proctor = ´why doesn´t everyone like me and trust in me´ Appleton = ´STFU or I´ll sue you´.

[Osoroshii]

Sooo.. I just received this PM sent to me here on MMO-C. It appears that someone tried to contact Chaud and get my personal information to contact me about ToA. Instead of giving my personal contact information, Chaud instead forwarded it to me as a PM..which begs the question that if someone wants to contact me, why wouldnt´they just PM me here themselves.....

Originally Posted by grahamtempleton
Hello, I'm a writer at Vice.com and I'm looking to reach out to a user named Azrile, to do with his thread on Trials of Ascension (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...s+of+ascension). I don't want to spam your forum with 10 posts to reach out for an interview. If you would, could you please forward this on to Azrile? It would be much appreciated.
---

For the user Azrile:
Hello, my name is Graham Templeton. I'm researching a possible piece about Trials of Ascension's odd development history. Particularly, the behind-the-scenes process of "making" the game, of spending years coming home from a day-job and dreaming about something with the help of a community of dedicated fans. And about the process of slowly being forced to let go of those dreams in the face of harsh reality, and continued failure.

Anyway, you're a big part of that story. I'm looking to get at the human side of it all, and a big part of that has to do with their feelings about all the negative buzz that exists around them. If only by virtue of your ToA thread's google ranking, you've had a lot to do with that buzz. My personal feeling on it, having spoken to them, is that they are just extremely naive, not intentionally manipulative. However, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter as well.

Let me know if you're open to talking. I always find audio (phone or skype) is the best way to discuss thing like this, but text could do as well if you prefer. Let me know what works for you and I'll do my best to accommodate your schedule for a quick chat.

Let me know,
Graham

__________________________________________

So this professional tech writer thinks that one thread in a 3rd party website mainly about WOW is the reason TOA´s KS failed? And really, I think I´ve shown over the past year that it would not take 10 posts to get my attention in this thread LOL.. and finally, MMO-C has a PM system...

It seems like everything he could ever want or need for his article has already been discussed at length in this thread... I'm guessing he just doesn't want to sit down and read all 301 pages and follow all the various links to pertinent threads on ToA's forums and is instead hoping for an abridged version.

[Azrile]

Also seems like ToA´s grand plan is to try to get a sympathy story done on how internet trolls ruined their dreams.

Anyone know about vice.com honestly, to me it just looks like one of those ´anyone can write here´ type of websites.

[Osoroshii]

Considering one of the first stories it showed me when I pulled up the site was something about "Sex and Food: Inside the Hungry World of Feeder Fetishes," I think it's fairly safe to say it's not exactly a of respectable or decent source for news and articles.

[Azrile]

Considering one of the first stories it showed me when I pulled up the site was something about "Sex and Food: Inside the Hungry World of Feeder Fetishes," I think it's fairly safe to say it's not exactly a of respectable or decent source for news and articles.

Beer and Hookers - sex and food.... i see the connection now.

[Post]

I don't know what kind of things the guy who wrote you did, but if it's the same people who make the VICE documentaries, some of those are really good. Stuff like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24R8JObNNQ4

This dude probably has nothing to do with those people, but there you go.

[Azrile]

I don't know what kind of things the guy who wrote you did, but if it's the same people who make the VICE documentaries, some of those are really good. Stuff like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24R8JObNNQ4

This dude probably has nothing to do with those people, but there you go.

Yeah, I just found a page with the author´s works. Mostly sci-fi ´it could be true´ type of stuff about secret moons, miliary lasers etc.

http://www.geek.com/author/gtempleton/

[Taojnhy]

Maybe I just don't understand modern journalism, but since when do writers share their personal opinion upfront on a topic when looking to discuss said topic with one or more involved (however tangentially) parties for the purpose of writing a piece?

[Azrile]

Cliff notes version of this thread

2002 Domain name registerd(note that is 2002, not 2012)
2006 Brax requests 6 to7 figures from investors and makes plea on website
2013 ToA does $750k KS
2014 ToA opens cash shop and sells $60k worth of ingame items.
2014 Later - First line of code written for ToA

MMORPG dreams are a dime a dozen, if you don´t do any real work, then your dream is nothing. Also, as has been shown, most of their ´fans´ were not real people. 90% of their forum posters disappeared last spring when we pointed out the devs were using alts.

I guess we have to define ´naive´.. To me, naive is when you don´t know the scope or difficulty of something. That would cover the first year. But you can´t be ´naive´for 14 years about the same project. If the devs had come clean in 2004 and said ´holy fuck, this is harder than we thought and we can´t possibly do this´.. than I would have given them a pass on those first 2 years. But that is not the case, despite not being able get anything done in Unity or Hero Engine from 2012-2014, these guys opened up a cash-shop and took money from people and they used manipulation and fake PR to encourage it.

[lawow74]

Sounds like it's rife with salacious and sensational 'news' to me. No journalism like yellow journalism, and all that.

[8bithamster]

I love how pathetic some people have become in this thread.

Someone wants an interview? Let's google everything we can about this person and bash him. Why? Because we can!

And people wonder why this thread is seen as the sewer of MMO-champion

[Kyanion]

I love how pathetic some people have become in this thread.

Someone wants an interview? Let's google everything we can about this person and bash him. Why? Because we can!

And people wonder why this thread is seen as the sewer of MMO-champion

Some random person on some random 'journalism' website wants an interview...maybe...if that person is really who they say they are. But don't worry the person that wants the interview is far too busy to bother private messaging and instead wants to try and get Azrile's real name and stuff from a mod. Yeah THIS is the thread that is the sewer on MMO-champ! Give me a break.

[8bithamster]

Some random person on some random 'journalism' website wants an interview...maybe...if that person is really who they say they are. But don't worry the person that wants the interview is far too busy to bother private messaging and instead wants to try and get Azrile's real name and stuff from a mod. Yeah THIS is the thread that is the sewer on MMO-champ! Give me a break.

Honeycakes, the only personal info:
If you would, could you please forward this on to Azrile? It would be much appreciated.

I always find audio (phone or skype)



Might help to read the PM's

It's called common sense, you need a way to communicate. Hell, the interviewer even gave several options. Most are "Either it goes my way, or you're out of luck".

But I guess, with this thread it's to be expected. People became really good at reading thing that aren't there.

[Fallen Angel]

I love how pathetic some people have become in this thread.

Someone wants an interview? Let's google everything we can about this person and bash him. Why? Because we can!

And people wonder why this thread is seen as the sewer of MMO-champion

Couple things:

1. The interviewer should not be requesting contact information from a site moderator, but rather Azrile directly.

2. Considering the reputation this thread has, there is no telling whether or not this is the actual person.

And people wonder why they get their emails and other accounts "hacked". Way too much blind trust running about.

[Azrile]

Honeycakes, the only personal info:
If you would, could you please forward this on to Azrile? It would be much appreciated.
It's called common sense, you need a way to communicate. Hell, the interviewer even gave several options. Most are "Either it goes my way, or you're out of luck".

I never said anything bad about the site he works for, or his articles. The few I read were decent, if a little ´sensational´.. but a lot of people like reading stuff like that. I actually enjoyed the one about the Earth having a second, hidden moon.

But sorry, seemed odd to me that he would send a PM to Chaud rather than just PM me himself. I received a similar PM back in June/July of last year from a person who wanted my ´list´ of reasons I thought ToA was a scam. That one was probably Brax or Xanword trying to get bullet points that they could address. Xanword admitted last month that the devs were reacting and publishing stuff to counter this thread.

All the info this new author wants is in the OP. There is no reason he would write to the site admins rather than just writing to me.

[8bithamster]

I'm not aiming it at you Azrile, more the other people. "OMG trash site, so it's a trash person" like posts etc

That devs use this way to get info, is just pathetic. But alas, the way I expect most devs to be.

[Kyanion]

Ooh looks like you didn't read the full message either. See this person contacted the mods first and the mods forwarded the message to Azrile. They didn't try and message Azrile at all so you can quote the part about them wanting to communicate through skype or phone but the fact is they didn't contact Azrile directly. *pats 8bit on the head*

Maybe this 'interviewer' could have oh I don't know contacted Azrile directly, posted in the thread, did some fact checking on their own (hell journalism has nothing to do with fact checking and research anymore does it?)

Again why would you want to do an interview with someone and at the same time present the ideal that you think the devs behind ToA were just naive. Journalism is about reporting facts and getting the correct information not projecting your opinion. Well it used to be.

And calling someone 'honeycakes' is just weak. If you want to insult me or be snarky just come out and do it, don't play little nickname word games or whatever it is. The pat you on the head is just a snark reply at your snark comment.