Stance Dancing

[Eranthe]

If it can alleviated by creating a macro, it's not adding "skill". It's a stupid tech/game engine loophole. I don't think macros should even be in the game when it comes to combat abilities. I'm guilty of it myself - having the bulk of my macros on my warrior already (without dancing). I like the idea of changing stances if it alters my rotation in a fun and meaningful way such as one stance being more mobile, being more stationary, or dealing with adds - but I don't like the idea of switching for seconds at a time with macros.

it adds another layer of things you need to think about when you're playing the game. if spell reflect requires defensive stance and you jump into and out of dstance for something via a macro and you're on the stance GCD when you need to reflect a spell, that's gameplay decision making. I'm not saying stances are the most interesting gameplay ever, but you can't make everything as interesting as everything else. it just doesn't work like that.

It might be really annoying or something you don't care about doing, but there's a reason blizzard gives us buffs we need to keep up or stupid filler talents like 90 mage talents. 90 mage talents are really stupid and annoying, but mages would be too strong if they took the talents out and just gave them the damage passively. So you can choose between having annoying mechanics to deal with and be rewarded with more damage/utility/healing/survivability, or you can have arms warrior rotation that has very little you can do to excel and differentiate yourself.

[87Octane]

it adds another layer of things you need to think about when you're playing the game. if spell reflect requires defensive stance and you jump into and out of dstance for something via a macro and you're on the stance GCD when you need to reflect a spell, that's gameplay decision making. I'm not saying stances are the most interesting gameplay ever, but you can't make everything as interesting as everything else. it just doesn't work like that.

It might be really annoying or something you don't care about doing, but there's a reason blizzard gives us buffs we need to keep up or stupid filler talents like 90 mage talents. 90 mage talents are really stupid and annoying, but mages would be too strong if they took the talents out and just gave them the damage passively. So you can choose between having annoying mechanics to deal with and be rewarded with more damage/utility/healing/survivability, or you can have arms warrior rotation that has very little you can do to excel and differentiate yourself.

I'm fine with it if they could uncouple it from macros. It's just so sloppy. I hate being forced to macro things. Most macros have a downside typically favoring simplicity over efficiency (and ultimately higher dps) - and I dig that.

Even if they made the ability force you into the other stance automatically and then force you back once you hit Mortal Strike etc. i'd be ok with it (like healing in shadowform). But if that is the case, what is the point? It's just the principle of requiring macros that irks me. If you can still use one button to change stances and perform an ability it hasn't really added depth. If changing stances had a CD, you could provide a true benefit and cost scenario but as it sits it's only a technological hurdle (knowing how to go on the internet and look up macros) that adds "depth".

[Eranthe]

I'm fine with it if they could uncouple it from macros. It's just so sloppy. I hate being forced to macro things. Most macros have a downside typically favoring simplicity over efficiency (and ultimately higher dps) - and I dig that.

Even if they made the ability force you into the other stance automatically and then force you back once you hit Mortal Strike etc. i'd be ok with it (like healing in shadowform). But if that is the case, what is the point? It's just the principle of requiring macros that irks me. If you can still use one button to change stances and perform an ability it hasn't really added depth. If changing stances had a CD, you could provide a true benefit and cost scenario but as it sits it's only a technological hurdle (knowing how to go on the internet and look up macros) that adds "depth".

i don't know how many ways i can say this:

there are no warrior mechanics that require macros since the removal of the shield requirement from shield wall/spell reflect. you can just bind the stances and manually swap stances with zero penalty. if pressing the ability automatically switched you into the stance, there would be no point at all to even having stances.

[87Octane]

i don't know how many ways i can say this:

there are no warrior mechanics that require macros since the removal of the shield requirement from shield wall/spell reflect. you can just bind the stances and manually swap stances with zero penalty. if pressing the ability automatically switched you into the stance, there would be no point at all to even having stances.

I was responding to the generality of stance dancing in its past or future iterations (alpha or hypothetical). That's what people in this thread were discussing and I was responding to. And yes I did mention that there was no point in stances if the ability automatically changed it. The same could be said for a macro though :P There is no practical difference either way you look at it. The only difference is the latter requires knowledge of UI mechanics rather than tooltips in the spellbook.

There is no point to having stance dancing unless there's a cooldown (EDIT: cost and benefit) or they can separate it from macros. It's unfriendly to new players yet irrelevant to veterans. If stances had a CD (EDIT: cost of some sort, time,rage etc) you could make the abilities that required them stronger in turn, provided it wasn't a macro-able combination of course.

[Raugnaut]

STANCE DANCING WAS the best thing ever in WoW. I loved to use Charge then If I wanted to intercept then changed to berserker stance. This is how Warrior should be played. It seems you guys want dumb down the game even more... "STAY IN ONE STANCE ALL DAY LONG OR REMOVE IT, IF NOT I DONT PLAY, OH EH OH <cry>" whining noobs

Except most people just used Macros, so you didn't really stance dance. /cast Berserker Stance /cast Intercept, ect. In order to prevent that sorta stuff, they had things like rage loss penalties.

The current changes also significantly gimps Glad warriors, who will be unable to use Mocking Banner, Spell Reflect(PvP), Mass Spell Reflect/Safeguard/Vigilance (entire tier of talents), Thunder Clap (No AoE for Glad warriors, da fuq?), Revenge, and Shield Slam, all of which requires Defensive Stance.

Protection is also unable to use Victory Rush and Impending Victory, as both of those require Battle Stance.

This is an extremely !@#$ed up change, and should be reverted.

[Trubo]

Ye but I've never seen a druid not use it.

I don't use it on my Druid but that's because my group sucks for stacking for Stampeding Roar.

As for stance dancing, MoP's version has been the best iteration of it that I've seen.

[Kaljurei]

The only reason you should stance dance is if the stance itself offers a benefit, for ex. Berserker/Defensive Stance. Tying abilities to a stance is a stupid move.

[Archimtiros]

Not gonna harp on this any longer. This conversation keeps going in circles.

It is clear and obvious that they aren't going to keep Gladiators from using any of our defensive abilities; so either the restrictions on stances for Glads or for abilities isgoing to change. Don't get too worked up just yet.

[hollafame]

The good ol' days of Arms when you had to shift between Battle and Berserker stance to get the most DPS out of it. The only skill that involved was not having to look up the macros on a website.

[Deleted]

stance dancing sucks

[Satori]

Stances should be utility based. Like Battle Stance increases movement speed by 10-20%, Berserker Stance you can't be slowed down (OP), some leech or cc reduction, Defensive stays the same.

[Deleted]

I think stance dancing is great, but not in the way things seem to be going. I used to love DS arms because of stances and even tho I used the same macros everyone else was using there was still an element of switching stance before the next GCD by simply pressing your macro button. Even if macroed you still have to think about the stance you are in. Trying to max out time spent in berskerer and not heroic striking in battle was the fun part. I find that to be the most engaging aspect of the stance dance, but ofc that is not coming back.

Having to switch for defensive CDs be it personal or raidwide I find quite pointless because it requires no decision making - even if you are not going to stay in def stance you still need to pop it. Rather than assesing the situation and making a decision on wether or not the reduced damage taken and done is worth it. That is what would be engaging and rewarding gameplay to me.