"Beta is Beta." And yet the stuff we voice our dislike for usually never gets changed

[eem5]

A lot of stuff does get fixed though - the DK bug regarding double dipping on... something? I can't remember the specifics. The trinket issues mid MoP, the raid slowdown that was blamed on stampede. Players reported this, it got fixed. Less game breaking changes too, the hotfix to cloth in old raids got reverted.

[Kaleredar]

Not everything everyone suggests in Beta goes with Blizzard's design plan or is worth the time investment.

[Sul]

A.) Currently, yes. But there will always be a beta.
B.)I'm leaving my ideas out of this and am speaking to when giant discussions get started requesting a change by the entire forum community and it is ignored.
C.) That is a really defeatist thing to say. It is OUR game. It is for US. Our creative input shouldn't be looked at like fan fiction.

It is NOT our game --we pay for a product , like any product if you don't like it you wont pay for it .

The entire forum community is very very small compared to the WoW player base --why should the listen to us.

They do take notice of player feedback - the feedback from players who actually are playing in alpha, the ones who know how the changes play in the new environment , not of whingers who read a little bit of the patch notes and complain without any knowledge whatsoever of how those changes actually play in the game

[adamzz]

A.) Currently, yes. But there will always be a beta.
B.)I'm leaving my ideas out of this and am speaking to when giant discussions get started requesting a change by the entire forum community and it is ignored.
C.) That is a really defeatist thing to say. It is OUR game. It is for US. Our creative input shouldn't be looked at like fan fiction.

B) The entire forum community has NEVER requested a change.
C) It is NOT our game, it is THEIR game.

Blizzard do listen to the players, there are several things that are implemented or brought back BECAUSE players requested it. You are really dense if you think otherwise.

You are a typical self-entitled QQer.

[dejaa]

Beta is more used for finding bugs and tuning things properly. The internal and friends and family alpha is where they make major changes if needed. By the time it hits beta everything should be pretty final for the most part.

Which is where I think the problem lies. Invitees to alpha are largely a homogenous group as they are industry insiders or friends thereof, bloggers, MVP's, etc., and as such represent the opinions and play styles of a small minority of the WoW playerbase. With this kind of composition the devs are largely singing to the choir with their design philosophy and game changes. It might be a better idea to include some random invitations from the playerbase at large to balance that out.

[Deleted]

Title. So sick of seeing the argument "Well, beta is beta....Nothing is set in stone...etc"

I've been playing this game for a long time, though I never payed attention to beta progress until cata was in Beta. In that time I have never seen blizzard revert anything from the beta. They tune damage/healing, switch/bake a few spells and this is best case scenario.

When have we ever complained about content or something in Beta and blizzard went "Oh, they really don't like where this is going. We should change it."

I know beta is for looking out for bugs/game breaking stuff (Although nowadays it seems more like a reason to keep subs *keep paying and you might get into beta!*) but they should take our feedback more to heart. They make the game, but we play it and pay for it.

I've heard recently that blizz believes only 3% of the players use forums. Why do we use forums? Because we LOVE the game and want the best for it. They need to acknowledge that and think of us as representative of the full player population. We are the ambassadors for WoW.

** A lot of replies are saying I'm complaining because my personal idea wasn't put in game, and I'd like to say I'm not mentioning what I personally want here, or anywhere. I am speaking for the large discussions with community driven activity, such as bringing back nighttime, or player housing, or garrisons being awful.

I am so sick of self entitled whiners not getting what they want in a game which they have ZERO right to decide what goes into it.

Really....

Lets use one of your examples.

Garrisons are Awful?

Really? That is an OPINION not a FACT just stop with the hyperbole.

I think Garrison look amazing, I don't want housing like Wildstar I agree with Blizzard I want "housing" that is useful.

They can and never will please everyone.

Do you remember the "We want 5 mans to be harder" before Cata?

How did that work out?

A small vocal minority is not (AT ALL EVER) the voice of the entire community.

If you think this, I really really have no idea what to say to you.

[adamzz]

I am so sick of self entitled whiners not getting what they want in a game which they have ZERO right to decide what goes into it.

Really....

Lets use one of your examples.

Garrisons are Awful?

Really? That is an OPINION not a FACT just stop with the hyperbole.

I think Garrison look amazing, I don't want housing like Wildstar I agree with Blizzard I want "housing" that is useful.

They can and never will please everyone.

Do you remember the "We want 5 mans to be harder" before Cata?

How did that work out?

A small vocal minority is not (AT ALL EVER) the voice of the entire community.

If you think this, I really really have no idea what to say to you.

I agree with you 100%

Funny thing is that OP thinks that WoW is our game and that Blizzard has no say in what happens in it.

[Deleted]

C.) That is a really defeatist thing to say. It is OUR game. It is for US. Our creative input shouldn't be looked at like fan fiction.

No it is not.

AT ALL.

EVER.

It is NOT our game.

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Sorry, but purely objectively speaking Garrisons are like a shell of a mini-feature compared to the integrated housing of Wildstar. It's just not right to compare the two. In Wildstar housing has thousands and thousands of customizable items and plots that are actually useful for playing the game, from crafting to portals, to gameplay, to gathering, to preparing raidconsumables etc. in WoD the garrison system is very barebones and ... they don't even give people the option for different looks of buildings, different racial styles or any customisation. Comparing Wildstar's housing with WoD's garrisons is like comparing Sims4 with Warcraft I: Orcs & Humans as a building game.

Way to miss the point (as you always do Anarch), I bolded the part that made me LOL so hard you are one of the least objective people on this forum.

Ironically I am not playing WoW and I am playing Wildstar just now.

I want Garrisons, I don't want housing like Wildstar.

Because you know.

I can play Wildstar to get housing like Wildstar.

[thesmall001]

Back in Vanilla, there was a lot of feedback about how Horde did not get enough love and attention and Blizzard was too Alliance-centric. Thereafter, Blizzard took that feedback into a account and became a company in full support, loyalty and dedication to the Horde master races and putting down Alliance clowns for all eternity such that they must now suckle at the teat for attention and development.

So don't say Blizzard don't listen to feedback. If anything they don't know when to stop listening.

[adamzz]

Back in Vanilla, there was a lot of feedback about how Horde did not get enough love and attention and Blizzard was too Alliance-centric. Thereafter, Blizzard took that feedback into a account and became a company in full support, loyalty and dedication to the Horde master races and putting down Alliance clowns for all eternity such that they must now suckle at the teat for attention and development.

So don't say Blizzard don't listen to feedback. If anything they don't know when to stop listening.

Lol, this post won the thread, mods can just close it now.

[MoanaLisa]

It's good that you understand that the primary reason to have beta access is to find bugs with the game.

It's less good that you don't seem to understand that beta is not really about voting on whether or not to redesign the game.

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There is nothing about the thread topic that demands discussion of Wildstar or any other MMO, so let's not. There are other forums on the site for just that reason. Thanks.

[Deleted]

A school of 10,000 fish are insignificant in a sea containing several million.

[Saberstrike]

Everyone in the entire world told them Taste for Blood oneshots, warlocks, frost bomb and hunter stampede in 5.0 MoP beta were overtuned.

Took them 6 months on live to fix it.

Just a bit of history / perspective on what you should expect in 6.0 with the amount of changes and ambition they're putting into WoD. Would be happy to be proven wrong and have a smooth x.0 patch for once, but we all know it's not very likely.

[Constraint]

A school of 10,000 fish are insignificant in a sea containing several million.

That's utterly irrelevant when the several million don't express their opinion in any way whatsoever other than subbing or not subbing. It also completely ignores the fact that there will be a very diverse range of opinions expressed even amongst the vocal 10,000.

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Oh, and it's certainly good to make "noise" about things now, when the development isn't "locked in" per se. Even if the developers don't agree with you, at least they're seeing your feedback and other points of view.

[thilicen]

I'm all for constructive complaints. Fact is 90% of "complaints" on this forum is nothing but rants and annoying whining.

[rda]

Title. So sick of seeing the argument "Well, beta is beta....Nothing is set in stone...etc"

I've been playing this game for a long time, though I never payed attention to beta progress until cata was in Beta. In that time I have never seen blizzard revert anything from the beta. They tune damage/healing, switch/bake a few spells and this is best case scenario.

When have we ever complained about content or something in Beta and blizzard went "Oh, they really don't like where this is going. We should change it."

I know beta is for looking out for bugs/game breaking stuff (Although nowadays it seems more like a reason to keep subs *keep paying and you might get into beta!*) but they should take our feedback more to heart. They make the game, but we play it and pay for it.

I've heard recently that blizz believes only 3% of the players use forums. Why do we use forums? Because we LOVE the game and want the best for it. They need to acknowledge that and think of us as representative of the full player population. We are the ambassadors for WoW.

** A lot of replies are saying I'm complaining because my personal idea wasn't put in game, and I'd like to say I'm not mentioning what I personally want here, or anywhere. I am speaking for the large discussions with community driven activity, such as bringing back nighttime, or player housing, or garrisons being awful.

OP, you have a point, because Blizzard do seem to ignore a lot of feedback, even for bugs, but there are genuine problems with reacting to feedback in wide betas. It's not easy. Blizzard can absolutely do better, yes, they aren't good at factoring in feedback compared to many other companies, they really have a long road before them, but based on your last paragraph, you are going to be disappointed even if / when they improve. "Garrisons being awful" is not actionable, neither is "player housing", its only "bringing back nighttime" that's specific enough and is kinda OK in terms of scale. So, if they bring back nighttime, that'd only be one smallish item off your list, which I guess won't be enough.

Sum total, yes, you have a point, but your expectations are really too high as well. Realistic expectations from a beta are: 80-90% of reported bugs fixed, 5-15% marked as "won't fix" or "by design" or whatever, 1-2% converted to small features or adjustments to existing features. That's it. It's different with alpha, of course, but... this alpha is not a real alpha, the only reason we have it is because Blizzard are desperate to put something, anything before our eyes during the epic fail that is no content for a year+ after SoO. Don't expect much from this alpha. Really.

[Deleted]

They need to acknowledge that and think of us as representative of the full player population. We are the ambassadors for WoW.

No, no they don't and the reason they don't is because stumbling across a forum or two doesn't give you any better an insight into the game or the people who play it than anyone else.

You speak for YOU, so long as you can put that into a reasoned post explaining why then they might take it on-board, but good luck with that because of the huge amount of "I don't like this and therefore it shouldn't exist" bollocks that they have wade through.

[rda]

No, no they don't and the reason they don't is because stumbling across a forum or two doesn't give you any better an insight into the game or the people who play it than anyone else.

You speak for YOU, so long as you can put that into a reasoned post explaining why then they might take it on-board, but good luck with that because of the huge amount of "I don't like this and therefore it shouldn't exist" bollocks that they have wade through.

"I don't like this" is valuable feedback, it's not "bollocks that they have to wade through", LOL.

[Deleted]

Remember how a lot of people voiced how broken affliction gameplay was in both pve and pvp in the mop beta? And how affliction got revamped yet again from 5.0-5.3? Those devs sure now whats the best, right?

[AkkarinHightower]

Happens in every game.

Dev holds beta -> Users complain -> nothing is changed.

It's mainly because of design decisions and deadlines, but it would be nice if they could listen a little sometimes.