"Beta is Beta." And yet the stuff we voice our dislike for usually never gets changed

[Dequanacus]

Quite a lot of people play this game. Do you really think you know what the majority wants?

[Raincrow]

"I don't like this" is valuable feedback, it's not "bollocks that they have to wade through", LOL.

"I don't like this" is only valuable feedback when paired with a discussion about the reasons for not liking it. If those reasons are visceral or emotional, such as the ever ongoing debate about the virtue of the Horde, then it's essentially the same as reading a book and discovering you don't like the direction the author is going. The author is the storyteller, and has no obligation to you, and the same goes for Blizzard in regards to lore, flavor, and tone.

On the other hand, if you say "I don't like Warlock game play", then there is likely a reason for that, but those reasons need to be stated, or the expression of displeasure is meaningless. Is the rotation confusing or complex? Is there a significant skill gap where a class is essentially only viable when someone mashes all the right buttons in the right sequence at the right time, and small things like movement and missing a proc can turn it to garbage? Or is it TOO simple, and you're basically just going 1-2-1-2-1-3-1-2-1-2... (I'm looking at you, old school Fire Mage rotation)? The fact is, Blizzard is ONLY interested in feedback about play. They don't really care too terribly much if you like or dislike certain features, like pet battles or Garrisons. They don't care if you like your Horde as good, one side of a grey coin, or turbo evil. They care if you're doing too much damage or too little damage than intended. They care to some degree if an ability breaks thematically from their intention (for instance, if tuning caused hunters to do a bunch more weapon damage but essentially made their pets useless, or similarly with Warlocks).

The point is that you need to make relevant arguments with supportable data or detailed explanations. There are too many "This sucks" threads for Blizzard to bother with flat negative opinions.

[Dequanacus]

You are all playing to the point I'm trying to make.

Beta isn't for changes. And Blizzard does have tools we don't, so why would we think they actually need us to play Beta in the first place?

If they aren't going to listen to our creative feedback because they have a set in stone design already, and they don't need our 'technical expertise' then Beta is meaningless except from a marketing standpoint.

And, back to my original intention "beta is beta" but if it's not for making changes then it is just "Beta is a preview of what IS coming and what WILL happen."

I think your philosophy of beta is wrong.

Alpha = Implementing core mechanics, features, content.
Beta = Tuning, testing, bug fixing, optimising, etc.

Once they're in beta they have pretty much hit the point where they are happy with what's there and just need it tested. Now this isn't to say it's going to be exactly the same, because until your playing the game and giving it a real go you won't necessarily realise that something is missing, and in that event they will look to rectify that, be it tweaking existing systems or adding a new thing in.

Thought this would've cleared things up for you.

[Deleted]

Seen it time and time again. Then when people attempt to discuss their concerns on MMO-Champ with fellow gamers, the League of Fan boi's mount up and raid the thread "HOW DARE YOU!" "NOOB, YOU'D BETTER TAKE THAT BACK!" "IT'S BETA, IDIOT... YOU THINK IT WILL BE IN RETAIL IF ITS BAD???!!!"... then when someone points out any contradictions, they change their arguments to defend their inner fanboy.

[Deleted]

"I don't like this" is valuable feedback, it's not "bollocks that they have to wade through", LOL.

No it's not, "I don't like this" tells you nothing, now "I don't like this because...." that's the important feedback.

[xindralol]

well the people in charge just don't give a fuck.
it's those that have no say in what actually happens to the game who listen to us.

ie everyone complains on PTR that an ability is overpowered, they don't change anything, it stays for a patch until they acknowledge 'hey this might be a bit too strong' and change it (of course never change it to the way it was before but make another change to it so that it's like 80% as good as before but still better than the overpowered first change)

[Durandro]

Most of the time when "Beta is Beta" is mentioned is in regards to things like:

1/ Lack of content
2/ Ability imbalance
3/ Bugs

In regards to complaining about everything else, its usually a vocal minority. Hense Blizzard doesn't take it into consideration since it would upset more people if they did.

[Deleted]

I dont remember anything from betas that wasnt set in stone already. Betas are not betas anymore, they are advertisement.

[finskee]

Title. So sick of seeing the argument "Well, beta is beta....Nothing is set in stone...etc"

I've been playing this game for a long time, though I never payed attention to beta progress until cata was in Beta. In that time I have never seen blizzard revert anything from the beta. They tune damage/healing, switch/bake a few spells and this is best case scenario.

When have we ever complained about content or something in Beta and blizzard went "Oh, they really don't like where this is going. We should change it."

I know beta is for looking out for bugs/game breaking stuff (Although nowadays it seems more like a reason to keep subs *keep paying and you might get into beta!*) but they should take our feedback more to heart. They make the game, but we play it and pay for it.

I've heard recently that blizz believes only 3% of the players use forums. Why do we use forums? Because we LOVE the game and want the best for it. They need to acknowledge that and think of us as representative of the full player population. We are the ambassadors for WoW.

** A lot of replies are saying I'm complaining because my personal idea wasn't put in game, and I'd like to say I'm not mentioning what I personally want here, or anywhere. I am speaking for the large discussions with community driven activity, such as bringing back nighttime, or player housing, or garrisons being awful.

Way to start off this thread with a downright lie. I think you are only seeing what you want to see, because even after people pointed out this flaw in your post, you continue to insist they don't listen to players in beta. It's total bullshit.

You are not an 'ambassador' for wow.

[rda]

"I don't like this" is only valuable feedback when paired with a discussion about the reasons for not liking it.

No. Not at all. Of course, if you can specify what is it exactly that you don't like in a particular feature or maybe how you think it could be made better, it helps, but even if you can't, "I don't like this" is valuable.

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The point is that you need to make relevant arguments with supportable data or detailed explanations. There are too many "This sucks" threads for Blizzard to bother with flat negative opinions.

No. Again, yes, arguments and explanations help, but just "this sucks, I don't know why, but it feels wrong to me" is immensely valuable in and of itself.

[Super Kami Dende]

This isn't meant to be nation-bashing or anything just pure observation from the last few months.
Why is it every thread I open about people being angry about Blizzard not listening to exactly what they want are generally all Americans?
Seems Americans are angrier at Blizzard for not listening to what THEY want more than any other people on this forum.

[blackblade]

I don't think "It's beta" is a fair disqualifier. But I think flailing or trying to gleam a reflection of the final product from the beta isn't a fair qualifier either.

Basically, It's beta. That means that things can drastically change, and the game's unfinished state isn't really a good indicator of what or how the final product will look like.

In essence, all data is in flux, we don't know all the details, and everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt. I'm sure feedback is appreciated, but for the most part, blizzard has a long history of doing what they want.

[CasCrow]

I've heard recently that blizz believes only 3% of the players use forums. Why do we use forums? Because we LOVE the game and want the best for it. They need to acknowledge that and think of us as representative of the full player population. We are the ambassadors for WoW.

Someone thinks highly of themselves. People that use the forums are trolls and want to see Blizzard not come up with new ways for us to enjoy the game. You're so-called "Love" only fools yourself and others with similar views.

[MikeBogina]

When have we ever complained about content or something in Beta and blizzard went "Oh, they really don't like where this is going. We should change it."

Female Worgens.

[Time Sage]

We're not in beta. We're in alpha. Nothing is finalized yet. Half the game isn't even implimented yet