So why does LFR have stronger gear than heroic 5 mans?

[FattGuy]

So I just found out that LFR will have stronger gear than the heroic 5 mans in WoD. Some datamines have suggested Heroic 5 mans will reward ilevel 630, while LFR will reward ilevel 645 gear.... Not to mention, completing challenge modes with a bronze rating will give players a chance on LFR gear... I was actually under the impression that the difference would be small. Very small actually, like ilevel 3 or 6 or something...

I don't understand. What is going on with Blizzard? This makes no fucking sense. I thought the LFR changes in WoD will benefit players that don't want to feel "forced" to do it, and yet these changes do nothing but still promote this fucking shit. I don't have a sub right now (playing WS right now) but I was hoping to return to WoD cause of all the amazing raiding changes they are making. However, having a system like this will do nothing at all. It will be the exact same thing as MoP is. Players will have to run LFR to get into normal modes with their stupid ilevel requirements, and the majority of the playerbase will run into the same problem with "I rather run with people who have ilevel 650-660 average for a safer run <_<"...

I ain't trying to look into the perspective of the raider. The raiders will be happy about these changes. The average pugger like myself won't. I was looking forward to just doing Heroic 5 mans, then go straight to normal modes and form some pugs between like 2-3 real life buds then start. Instead, I get this. This changes very little in the core problems in gear for MoP.

And I don't even want to start on the whole BS with Heroic 5 mans and Challenge modes being even harder than LFR. Holy fuck <_<.

EDIT:

Can a mod just close this thread? Until someone from Blizzard or a dataminer confirms the ilevels of gear, then I think my post should be disregarded. I was under the impression of the ilevel difference being 15 but someone posted that there is a blue 645 and epic 645. This could be the gear difference that blizzard was talking about. Maybe.

[owbu]

Since it will take forever for all Lfr Wings to open (A month or so for the first one?), most PuGers will grind heroics before they even see any lfr.

Normal mode pugs will of course still have stupid requirements to enter, but there will be a lot more groups in the finder. So healthy competition will hopefully make finding groups a bit easier overall.
Also the new PuG tool will not allow you to set a higher minimum itemlvl than you personally have. So no "green rogue lf 20 heroic raiders, rogue items locked!" groups

Also you can get lfr itemlvl gear from challenge mode bronze once per day, which should also be pugable (and you dont need gear for it).


SO chances are if you dont want to you can easily avoid Lfr, no matter what type of player you are.

[Deleted]

Haha I knew this would happen, here we go.

People will keep whining about LFR rewards and how they are forced to do it. It wont end.

[WanderingBreezes]

Those ilvls can't be final as they specifically stated in interviews:

Blizzard now has two loot/content tracks in mind. For solo players, you can run normal mode dungeons to prepare you for Raid Finder. For the group track, you'd do premade groups or proving grounds for Heroic Dungeons, which have loot that prepares you for normal or steps beyond that. Both tracks should not need to intersect.

Heroic dungeon gear will be good enough so you don't feel forced to do LFR when getting ready for Normals.

Also, keep in mind:

As the Raiding Blog stated, LFR loot is getting some changes--no gear with set bonuses, and less-groundbreaking trinkets. There will be trinkets in LFR and they will be epic, but they won't be transformative like Unerring Vision of Lei Shen or Rune of Re-Origination.

LFR lets everyone experience raid content and for WoD, they want to focus on how LFR lets you see all of an expansion's story.

In Mists, LFR was set up as part of a long-term endgame, where loot was paced accordingly and drawn out. This led to lots of frustration and slow gearing.

Since LFR will have improved droprates now, the gear had to be changed so it didn't feel like a mandatory thing for progression raiders to run.

[Luko]

From a gamplay perspective? You can only get gear from LFR once per boss per week while 5mans are spammable.

[The Kao]

In rather unrefined words, it's an attempt to keep the scrubs out of content that they aren't up for (heroic 5 mans) while still enabling them to get enough gear (normal 5 mans) to play appropriate content (LFR), which again keeps them out of heroic 5 mans through higher item level. Certainly better than repeating the mess that was Cata's launch without having to tone every bit of content down.

[Deleted]

Look...nobodywas ever "forced" to do LFR. People have started on HMs and cleared them in the week that LFR opened. After HM 5 mans, NORMAL raiding opens. That means, people go with HM 5 man gear into NORMAL raiding.

Are you saying you are SOOOOO bad, you need to up your ilv by 15 to have a chance in normal?

Holy fuck (to quote you) THAT is why Blizzard added LFR in between, for guys like you who just seem to lack the skill?

Yeah, your attitude and swearing made me try and match your rage...

You are completely missing the point and at the same time insulting the OP, while ignoring his point. Bravo.

The point is that lfr dropping better gear then 5 mans will make lfr a part of natural progression. Thats exactly what blizzard said they wouldnt do my removing the ilvl difference of 5 man hc's and lfr.

The point isnt "lol you cant do normal in 5 man hc gear". The point is that a character gearing up for normal/hc/mythic will do everything he can to gear up fast. In this case that means doing LFR aswell, making lfr a mandatory part of character progression once again.

Edit: to explain further. If lfr and 5 man hc's had the same ilvl then you could completely stay out of lfr and run 5 mans instead. As many, many people have begged for.

[ceall]

From a gamplay perspective? You can only get gear from LFR once per boss per week while 5mans are spammable.

totally with you in this one!
Plus, as someone mentioned above: after you have gathered for 5m HM gear, you'll be going into CMs which are literally the same, but limited to time. I'm sure, some hardcore high end peeps will be full of lfr-quality CM gear before they step into normal or even directly into heroic raiding.
Also, there'll be 3 worldbosses, with chances of normal mode gear (i guess), including set items, as always. so, if lfr ilvl would be 645, there might be some entering raiding with 646-648, which is kinda low lol.
I mean, at lvl 90, heroic raiders do have 580+ ilvl. Some will still wear at least t16 2p for raiding for the extra damage.

Another thing: the first LFR wing currently always opens, when heroic opens, which is at least in week 2, as i recall raids being open on day 1. Now, as it happend in SoO, each new wing, will open 2-3 weeks after the last wing. we have 2 raids, say, the smaller one, will be in 2 wings, and the bigger one in 3. maybe 4. that'll lead in at least 2 and a half months until the entire lfr has opened up. By then, a lot of pugs will have walked through CM to get the LFR quality gear, if they succeeded in proving grounds (silver).

also, i think anything under 660 in HM dungeons would be silly. cuz then we could also run into t17 with our t16 raid gear. We're still in beta, everything is subject to change!

[leaks]

If lfr and 5 man hc's had the same ilvl then you could completely stay out of lfr and run 5 mans instead. As many, many people have begged for.

As already pointed out, this would mean they would have to make hc 5man gear only drop once a week.

[Caain]

making lfr a mandatory part of character progression once again.

Exactly. Blizzard has already said that LFR wouldn't be a part of the gearing process in WoD. Hopefully these inflated item levels on beta right now are just for testing purposes or something, because I hate wasting hours each week to run LFR with a bunch of people who don't want to be there either.

[Deleted]

Because otherwise LFR will be enpty after 1 week of release? the gear alrdy sucks in looks so for transmog ppl are not going to do them anymore.

[Deleted]

As already pointed out, this would mean they would have to make hc 5man gear only drop once a week.

No, no it wouldnt. There is no reason why womeone who loves gearing up fast couldnt do that from heroics? Just like in mists or cata or Wrath. Whats wrong with that?

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Because otherwise LFR will be enpty after 1 week of release? the gear alrdy sucks in looks so for transmog ppl are not going to do them anymore.

People should be doing lfr for the story cus they dont want to raid, not for gearing. So if its empty then its basicly because non raiders dont care.

[Deleted]

BECAUSE 70% of the player base are LFR....gear may even get better for LFR before live

[leaks]

There is no reason why womeone who loves gearing up fast couldnt do that from heroics?

Are you asking me or telling me?

[Luko]

People should be doing lfr for the story cus they dont want to raid, not for gearing. So if its empty then its basicly because non raiders dont care.

Even if they were doing it for the story (which , good luck getting 25 capable and able roled people together for storytime) they'd be done after seeing it once. The rest (majority) of the people interested in running LFR would have an extremely hard time
A.) Finding a group
B.) Finding motivation to spend the next hour in a pug raid with little to no reward

It's not in Blizzards interest to alienate most prominent part of its playerbase; the LFR raiding casual player.

What you're asking is simply unreasonable.

[Perkunas]

The answer is that Blizzard understands that nobody does LFR for the lore or the content. They do it for the gear and if you don't give them an I-level higher than heroic 5-mans LFR will die and people will piss and moan about heroic 5-mans being too hard and that they deserve to see "the content". Basically history repeats itself.

[thunderdragon2]

sigh

proving grounds forced on me if i wan do 5 mans and now chalange modes being forced on ppl for lfr, they cant come up wiht devcent incentive to get people to do them so they force it on us......

[Deleted]

Are you asking me or telling me?

Thats a nice reply when you have nothing real to say.

Also those 70% doing lfr as you say, they dont need the gear for anything. Its an older discussion but still.

Just because most people do it, doesnt mean it should award the better gear. That makes no sense

[Sunseeker]

Because as Blizzard has stated several times, if they made Heroic dungeon loot the same Ilvl as RF loot, it would kill raid finder.

Yes yes I know you're practically orgasaming at the mere thought of the death of raid finder but apparently you haven't gotten it through your head yet that Blizzard does not share that dream.

[Deleted]

The answer is that Blizzard understands that nobody does LFR for the lore or the content. They do it for the gear and if you don't give them an I-level higher than heroic 5-mans LFR will die and people will piss and moan about heroic 5-mans being too hard and that they deserve to see "the content". Basically history repeats itself.

This is a perfect example of why they should just remove lfr. As blizzard didnt create lfr for gearing purposes, it apparently does not have a role anymore

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Because as Blizzard has stated several times, if they made Heroic dungeon loot the same Ilvl as RF loot, it would kill raid finder.

Yes yes I know you're practically orgasaming at the mere thought of the death of raid finder but apparently you haven't gotten it through your head yet that Blizzard does not share that dream.

Where? Where did they state this?