Burwell v. Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc. Ruling

[Tradewind]

So were you arguing that the sex of the justices in the majority was relevant to the outcome of the case, or not?

I'm not him but I find it a bit strange that 5 dudes (or whatever it is) are weighing in on acceptable female contraceptives.

[Orlong]

"Salt of the Earth women"...

That's all.

Yes. Salt of the earth. Normal everyday people who were brought up in a normal home and schools, rather than being brought up in an anything goes California metropolis and attending school at some neoliberal college to indoctrinate them as an activist

[Rukentuts]

I'm not him but I find it a bit strange that 5 dudes (or whatever it is) are weighing in on acceptable female contraceptives.

Especially while a few of those dudes are not shy about subscribing to doctrine that is against them.

[Stormdash]

Religious people should not be allowed to deny people something because it goes against their beliefs. I argue that denying something because it goes against your personal beliefs is in direct contradiction to God. That God gave man free will to make his own choices good or bad. The bad choices were not removed or taken away even in the Garden of Eden God allowed the Apple tree to stand. By allowing it to stand he allowed the choice for Adam and Even to eat from it, so even God knows that choice is a good thing. By demanding that we remove choice we are stating that we know better then the God that allowed us to have free will in the first place.

Okay that is the end of my angry religious rant.

This would be a more persuasive argument if "not purchasing for you" and "denying you access to" were rationally related concepts, but they really just are not. If the Greens were threatening to fire any employee that, on their own, was procuring the other forms of contraception, I don't think I would disagree at all, since that could at least be argued as coercive.

[Tradewind]

Yes. Salt of the earth. Normal everyday people who were brought up in a normal home and schools, rather than being brought up in an anything goes California metropolis and attending school at some neoliberal college to indoctrinate them as an activist

oh boy..."normal home" haha...

Wasn't Arnie a Republican and huge anti-socialist?

[NYC17]

So were you arguing that the sex of the justices in the majority was relevant to the outcome of the case, or not?

The discussion taking place was that it was THE reason. I stated very clearly it was not a sole factor, but it's delusional for one to believe it is a NON-factor.

Keep up please. I'm not usually in favor of having to explain and re-explain the discussion to people who have nothing to contribute, but wish to take part anyway.

[Kellhound]

Yes.

That's exactly why this case was about a corporation's right to make religious choices that negatively affect its workforce, regardless of the faiths or lack thereof of those employees.

Free exercise of religion means you should be able to choose, for yourself, on religious grounds. This is why adult Jehovah's Witnesses can make informed choices to refuse blood transfusions, even if doing so costs them their lives. That's their free exercise of religion. They are not free to make the same choice for their children, let alone anyone else. That isn't "free exercise", any more; that's inflicting your religion on another.

And before anyone says this is an unfair comparison because blood transfusions are a bigger deal than 4 types of birth control; my issue is not the specifics of this case, it's the precedent that it sets and the rationale used to justify it.

HL is not preventing any employee from using any contraceptive.

People/Government/Corperations inflict religion/anti-religion on us all the time. People only moan and groan when they don't like a specific instance of it.

[Captain N]

Yes. Salt of the earth. Normal everyday people who were brought up in a normal home and schools, rather than being brought up in an anything goes California metropolis and attending school at some neoliberal college to indoctrinate them as an activist

So someone who was born with money and went to preppy New England Schools where they were taught that poor people are a blight and that the more stuff you have the better your are?

[NYC17]

Yes. Salt of the earth. Normal everyday people who were brought up in a normal home and schools, rather than being brought up in an anything goes California metropolis and attending school at some neoliberal college to indoctrinate them as an activist

I'm just quoting this to point out that you have a habit of discrediting yourself. I wish I could say I contributed, but all I've really done is highlighted your words. All the heavy lifting was done by you.

Bravo.

[Gambit5555]

Perhaps we should stop this war on welfare then.

Why? Just because you aren't guaranteed a job doesn't mean you're guaranteed for me to support you. I'd figured out real quick how to become a better employee or go to some of those horrible Christian charities that actually exist to help people. Don't expect my ass to carry you

[Rukentuts]

So someone who was born with money and went to preppy New England Schools where they were taught that poor people are a blight and that the more stuff you have the better your are?

New England is highly urban and liberal. You may mean the developing states in the Southeast.

Why? Just because you aren't guaranteed a job doesn't mean you're guaranteed for me to support you. I'd figured out real quick how to become a better employee or go to some of those horrible Christian charities that actually exist to help people. Don't expect my ass to carry you

Yeah I sure called that "just die" comment didn't I?

[Deleted]

I would just like to know how the family that owns Hobby Lobby is being denied the right to practice their religion by offering Plan B insurance coverage to their employees?

They don't want to pay for abortions.

That isn't "free exercise", any more; that's inflicting your religion on another.

In the case of Hobby Lobby, no one is forced to work there.

[Rukentuts]

They don't want to pay for abortions.

They never were by multiple reasons. That's the point.

In the case of Hobby Lobby, no one is forced to work there.

They're not forced to do business here either.

Nice valid point, isn't it?

[Adam Jensen]

They don't want to pay for abortions.

They aren't.

Those contraceptives do not cause abortions.

[Slaskra]

but it's delusional for one to believe it is a NON-factor.

On what grounds? To claim that it was a non-factor is to claim to have knowledge of the majority justice's thought process. The onus is on you to prove that it was a factor to whatever extent you believe it is - and "they are men" or "its human nature" are not arguments, but rather extremely broad dismissals of any given person's ability to think objectively.

I'm not saying the bias did not exist. I find it hard to believe that even supreme court justices are infallible in their reasoning. What I am saying is that there is nothing to indicate that sex was an influencing factor in their decision.

[Captain N]

New England is highly urban and liberal. You may mean the developing states in the Southeast.

Now that's odd - Ive seen worse bias towards women in New York then Ive seen in Atlanta. Anecdotal obviously.

[NYC17]

In the case of Hobby Lobby, no one is forced to work there.

Force is a red herring argument. Force is not required for it to be an imposition.

[Rukentuts]

They aren't.

Those contraceptives do not cause abortions.

They're also not paying for them. The insurance company pays the claim.

Now that's odd - Ive seen worse bias towards women in New York then Ive seen in Atlanta. Anecdotal obviously.

I'm just saying on a macro level.

And Atlanta is actually decent for the South. It's like the 2nd or 3rd "gayest city".

[petej0]

New England is highly urban and liberal.

That attitude is pervasive across political groups.

- - - Updated - - -

So will we now see a mass boycott of Hobby Lobby and like companies?

[Gambit5555]

The point is, we should overlook sexism because someone else can give a band-aid.

You are right, the sexism is horrible. Hobby Lobby covers 16 forms of birth control, and only two are for men. Those sexist bastards. They probably cover a maternity leave that is far longer then paternity leave too. I'm so tired of this sexism against men. The war on men must end