Mike Morhaime replies to open letter over diversity in Blizzard games.

[Deleted]

You haven't watched movies with gay characters or played storycentric games with gay characters I guess then. They do exist, and many are quite good.

Blizzard arbitrarily putting gay characters into its weak WoW story would signify nothing but "alright, we'll put some random gays in to appease whiny SJWs" And who are you to say what "the media needs". Blizzard needs customers of their games, to turn their carefree playground for millions into a socialjustice platform would hamstring their efforts, so they really DON'T need it.

Why do assume that it's just "Social Justice Warriors" (terrible term anyway) who care about diversity? Introducing gay characters would make characters less repetitive, get good PR, and maybe lead to Blizzard taking a look at their writing and improve it. Plus you know...diversity.

[tehdef]

I'm not for projecting personal insecurities into games. I would be fine if every character was androgynous. I don't need to identify with something to enjoy the game. I also don't have to force my lifestyle upon other people, because I prefer to keep my interests away from others, unless they specifically inquire.

[gamingmuscle]

Most of the relationships in WoW are not actually for progeny (well aside from all the implicit ones which require characters to exist.). For example the love triangle between Illidan, Tyrande and Malfurion has nothing to do with the gender of the characters. Nor does the little romance between Ji and Aysa, or Jaina and Kalec. There are quests where we need to save people's partners, and quests where we play matchmaker. All of this could be done with LGBT characters.

Yes they could easily do it with some side quests, and supposedly they do have some of that with several minor characters and how they interact with certain other NPC's. I don't think it's quite in the quests. But I thought you were demanding more than it just being present in the game.

You're falling in to the very problem I described. If you only write explicitly gay characters when their sexuality is vital to the plot that usually means never, especially if you don't want to explore discrimination.

Whats the point explicitly stating sexuality if it doesn't have a point within the story? I certainly don't want to tell you not to want it. But without a story reason to state it, Blizzard doesn't need to state it. Putting something into the story just so you can point to it and say see we included it and that is the only reason isn't progress. I'd actually kind of find that insulting. So yes while hard to do they would need to make it's inclusion meaningful to story

[Lolsteak]

I fixed that for you. Welcome to the 21st century.

I almost spit out my tea, If that were true there wouldn't even be this thread now would there.

[Durandro]

Why do assume that it's just "Social Justice Warriors" (terrible term anyway) who care about diversity? Introducing gay characters would make characters less repetitive, get good PR, and maybe lead to Blizzard taking a look at their writing and improve it. Plus you know...diversity.

I hate the term as well. Its a very lazy way to brush aside any counterpoints people have, akin to calling people 'liberals' or 'fascists'.

Diversity is always good. Which is why I'm glad Blizzard at least put a Troll in charge of the Horde. Its just a shame they are pretty much instantly forgetting about doing that and moving back to Orcs...

But hey, we can't have everything all at once. Hopefully we get a good balance eventually. Heck, we had a decent balance in Warcraft 3 even!

[Deleted]

Yes they could easily do it with some side quests, and supposedly they do have some of that with several minor characters and how they interact with certain other NPC's. I don't think it's quite in the quests. But I thought you were demanding more than it just being present in the game.

I'm not demanding anything. All that I am asking for is that it be present and it be confirmed, not implied.

Whats the point explicitly stating sexuality if it doesn't have a point within the story? I certainly don't want to tell you not to want it. But without a story reason to state it, Blizzard doesn't need to state it. Putting something into the story just so you can point to it and say see we included it and that is the only reason isn't progress. I'd actually kind of find that insulting. So yes while hard to do they would need to make it's inclusion meaningful to story

The point is that it diversifies the story. I mean that in two ways. Firstly I mean that in the "social issue" way - it promotes LGBT rights which is a good thing. But I also mean it makes the characters more diverse and varied, which is good it makes things more interesting.

[Shiny212]

Why do assume that it's just "Social Justice Warriors" (terrible term anyway) who care about diversity? Introducing gay characters would make characters less repetitive, get good PR, and maybe lead to Blizzard taking a look at their writing and improve it. Plus you know...diversity.

Read up on the term then. The implication that they're warriors is satirical, since they don't fight for anything they believe in themselves, red dead redemption for instance wouldn't be "improved" by removing the male main character killing a woman by leaving her hogtied on the traintrack, but social justice warriors like to claim that it would, not because they believe it, but because it furthers their own image as a cool guy white knight type of person, leaping to the defense of the socially unjustified.

I fully support Blizzard improving their storywriting, since it's been shitty for some time, I don't agree that putting random gays everywhere would solve it.

I'm not demanding anything. All that I am asking for is that it be present and it be confirmed, not implied.



The point is that it diversifies the story. I mean that in two ways. Firstly I mean that in the "social issue" way - it promotes LGBT rights which is a good thing. But I also mean it makes the characters more diverse and varied, which is good it makes things more interesting.

There is nothing good about ruining a game to promote LGBT rights, and that's exactly what you would do, just as WoW doesn't and shouldn't promote LGBT rights, it shouldn't advocate pacifism. It exists to entertain, any social commentary should be coincidental to good stories.

[Lolsteak]

This thread is exactly here because of that reason. Blizzard seems to be struggling with their conservative nature and lack of diversity among their creative direction and a changing market. They're a bit slow to catch on, but if anything Mike's reply shows acknowledgement and willingness to change.

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That is actually a really good point. Diversity doesn't even have to be about RL issues or reflect modern social changes, it already has direct influence on the storytelling within a fantasy setting itself. When there is too much focus on only orcs and humans, people will get bored too.

No, this thread is here because of a tiny portion of the vocal minority.

Honestly calling it diversity while trying to force your own opinions and agendas onto others and their intellectual property is getting rather tiring, forcing people to do what you believe in is the exact opposite of diversity.

[Deleted]

Read up on the term then. The implication that they're warriors is satirical, since they don't fight for anything they believe in themselves, red dead redemption for instance wouldn't be "improved" by removing the male main character killing a woman by leaving her hogtied on the traintrack, but social justice warriors like to claim that it would, not because they believe it, but because it furthers their own image as a cool guy white knight type of person, leaping to the defense of the socially unjustified.

I fully support Blizzard improving their storywriting, since it's been shitty for some time, I don't agree that putting random gays everywhere would solve it.

Well in that case it's been thrown around unjustly on this thread and others. Just speaking for themselves, I sincerely believe everything I've said on this thread.

There is nothing good about ruining a game to promote LGBT rights, and that's exactly what you would do, just as WoW doesn't and shouldn't promote LGBT rights, it shouldn't advocate pacifism. It exists to entertain, any social commentary should be coincidental to good stories.

Why would it be ruining anything? I'm not even asking that they do a huge social commentary on the matter, just that it's there. It doesn't even have to be treated like a big deal.

[idunnowatdo]

No, this thread is here because of a tiny portion of the vocal minority.

Honestly calling it diversity while trying to force your own opinions and agendas onto others and their intellectual property is getting rather tiring, forcing people to do what you believe in is the exact opposite of diversity.

its when you try to force people is when you get push back. Just relax and let it happen

[Deleted]

No, this thread is here because of a tiny portion of the vocal minority.

Honestly calling it diversity while trying to force your own opinions and agendas onto others and their intellectual property is getting rather tiring, forcing people to do what you believe in is the exact opposite of diversity.

No one is forcing anyone to do anything. But there is also no good reason for anyone not to want diversity. If despite that you don't want it, I can't force you to change your mind.

[Jingoism]

Why doesn't this game refer to my character with the correct gender pronouns? IT'S XI/XIR/XO/XUM, GET IT RIGHT YOU CIS SCUM.

[Lolsteak]

No one is forcing anyone to do anything. But there is also no good reason for anyone not to want diversity. If despite that you don't want it, I can't force you to change your mind.

If you go by some of the commenters in this thread, they're trying.

But there is also no good reason for anyone not to want diversity.

I'm not against diversity, the definition of diverse is "showing a great deal of variety; very different.", by trying to force games and game developers to cater to all minorities against their will (whatever their will may be) is against diversity.

[Deleted]

If you go by some of the commenters in this thread, they're trying.



I'm not against diversity, the definition of diverse is "showing a great deal of variety; very different.", by trying to force games and game developers to cater to all minorities against their will (whatever their will may be) is against diversity.

Not that anyone is advocating that but no it isn't. Forced diversity is technically still diversity. But anyway, no one wants to force anyone. We just want to be able to trust that the folks at Blizzard are decent people who support equality and diversity.

[Jingoism]

Not that anyone is advocating that but no it isn't. Forced diversity is technically still diversity. But anyway, no one wants to force anyone. We just want to be able to trust that the folks at Blizzard are decent people who support equality and diversity.

I see what you're saying and I'll shorten it for you; capitulate or you're an evul nazti raciss.

[Deleted]

I see what you're saying and I'll shorten it for you; capitulate or you're an evul nazti raciss.

There's no reason for the extreme comparisons. But if you are against equality you are a bad person in my view. I don't see how that's a controversial statement. The great thing is that I'm not forcing anyone to be a good person. They can be a bad person if they want.

[Willias]

I'm not against diversity, the definition of diverse is "showing a great deal of variety; very different.", by trying to force games and game developers to cater to all minorities against their will (whatever their will may be) is against diversity.

No one can force Blizzard to cater to minorities. It's a good idea (generally) as a business to do so however, if only somewhat.

And again, no one can force Blizzard to change their game. People can certainly say "I won't purchase your games until you make changes in this direction" and Blizzard is more than free to say "No" in response.

[Deleted]

All that need to be said

[Caeth]

No one is saying "throw some LGBT stuff in there". The point is "stop purposefully avoiding it". It isn't happenstance that LGBT stuff doesn't exist in the game- it's purposefully avoided. If it doesn't fit into the story, then don't use it. But I have a super hard time believing that in 10+ years of storytelling NO ONE in Blizzard was creative enough to come up with a LGBT character.

But LGBT is just one specific case. Blizzard avoids anything interesting (controversial or diversity). The point is- BE more creative USE these things. Your audience wants it. Your audience will identify with it. You can have a better story if you use these tools rather than being afraid to use them.

[idunnowatdo]

No one is saying "throw some LGBT stuff in there". The point is "stop purposefully avoiding it". It isn't happenstance that LGBT stuff doesn't exist in the game- it's purposefully avoided. If it doesn't fit into the story, then don't use it. But I have a super hard time believing that in 10+ years of storytelling NO ONE in Blizzard was creative enough to come up with a LGBT character.

But LGBT is just one specific case. Blizzard avoids anything interesting (controversial or diversity). The point is- BE more creative USE these things. Your audience wants it. Your audience will identify with it. You can have a better story if you use these tools rather than being afraid to use them.

do it good or dont do it at all. No one wants to be the "token" minority or whatever you want to label it. how i see it blizz prob dosent want ot hurt anyones feelings because they "didnt get it right"