No female draenei warlocks?

[Thimagryn]

You're heavily missing the point, because it actually make sense for the Draenei accepting the DKs and give them a chance for redeem themselves, since they were nothing but victims all along.

We don't have any lore between Draenei and the Death Knights. It's mostly been interpreted that all Death Knights serve under the Horde and Alliance for the 'greater good'. There is no lore to suggest the Draenei openly interact with Death Knights or are accepting of them any more than they are accepting of Warlocks of the other races. From a lore standpoint, Death Knights are absolutely neutral. Do the Draenei accept them because they're victims? It may be possible, but there is no lore to suggest it either way.

As far as we know, Death Knights congregrate at Acherus and await orders from the Alliance leaders on what to do and where to go next. We don't have a whole lot of examples where they're living back with their families or openly accepted into their former societies; especially in the case of Draenei.

[Larynx]

There's a 2 page thread that says Warlocks are basically just Mages who summon Demons too.

When it comes down to it, Affliction Warlocks are just rehashed Shadow Priests. They both use the same source of magic with the Void. /s

[Thimagryn]

lol, no they don't.

http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?t=2461

The void - in wow lore or any other that I can think of - has Zero to do with wow-style warlocks. By its very definition, the Void is an absence - in WoW's case - of the Light. It is why we ourselves appear as nothing but a Shadow cast over anything we stand before, it is why our pets are similarly voids of light - fiends without physical form. Void tendrils aren't physical objects (despite Blizzards balance-based choice to make them punchable - presumably this represents mental struggle). Even the ability Void Shift - makes our health pools the opposite, just as we are opposite - antithesis of the Light. The idea of Void has infinitely more to do with Light than it does with Demonology, or Affliction, or Destruction - Void is practically a synonym for Shadow.

[Aquamonkey]

lol, no they don't.

http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?t=2461

Except it's wrong.... The Void is an actual realm with its own energy and physical creatures.

[Thimagryn]

So where is it stated that Affliction Warlocks source from the Void?

[Aquamonkey]

So where is it stated that Affliction Warlocks source from the Void?

Not even specifically Affliction. Locks have a bunch of abilities that use Void/shadow energy. Here's one even specifically with "Void" in the name: [Metamorphosis: Void Ray]

Void and shadow are intertwined. Even Kosak lumps them together:

"Unholy light" is really just shadow/void magic, so that's kinda a weird ability kit there. (DaveKosak)

[Baconeggcheese]

Please don't revive the thread with your bullshit, the topics been thoroughly discussed and we ended on a good note.

[Aquamonkey]

Or you could just unsubscribe if you're not interested in how the thread continues...

[Larynx]

lol, no they don't.

http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?t=2461

Nice "source" lol.

- - - Updated - - -

So where is it stated that Affliction Warlocks source from the Void?

Well, besides using Shadow Magic (which is an assumption, mainly. If you're interested, the only strong argument against all shadow magic being the Void are DKs, and there's a possible argument there too), the TCG (not canon? I don't know), and the RPG ("not" canon) - which basically eliminates all possible lore for magic in the WoW universe - we have Void Walkers.

https://twitter.com/DaveKosak/status/442062392281665536
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/12405830492

Which are not demons and are intrinsically related to the void and shadow magic. Then there's also the thematics of affliction, namely focusing spells with vampiric-type mechanics or soul/undead themes (ie soul drain) which have an established in lore relationship to the Void.

examples (likely the majority from players):

http://wowpedia.org/Health_Funnel
http://wowpedia.org/Life_Tap
http://wowpedia.org/Soulstone
http://wowpedia.org/Twilight_Ward
http://wowpedia.org/Howl_of_Terror
http://wowpedia.org/Fear
http://wowpedia.org/Soul_Harvest
http://wowpedia.org/Soulshatter
http://wowpedia.org/Drain_Life
http://wowpedia.org/Create_Soulwell
http://wowpedia.org/Drain_Soul
http://wowpedia.org/Soul_Swap
http://wowpedia.org/Soulburn
http://wowpedia.org/Void_Ray

There is also http://wowpedia.org/Shadow_Bolt which many "Shadow Mages" in game use.

http://wowpedia.org/Shadowmage
http://wowpedia.org/Shadowmage_(mob)

The argument for relies mainly on circumstance and assumptions, and the only argument against it is just an argument of ignorance mainly. Really, there's shit for Void/Shadow lore in the first place.

To me, what distinguishes a Warlock from a Shadow Priest, and indeed a Mage, is simply communion/pacts with Demon and using Fel Energy. That is literally the single thing which makes Warlock unique. So, I don't see a fundamental problem with Warlocks using Void/Shadow magic anymore than a Destruction Warlock overlapping with a Fire Mage, or a Paladin with a Priest, or anything else that shares common elements. Could even argue Hunters and Druids both use the same brand of nature magic.

This is of course in spite of the fact that that original post was sarcastic.

[Thimagryn]

Well, besides using Shadow Magic (which is an assumption, mainly. If you're interested, the only strong argument against all shadow magic being the Void are DKs, and there's a possible argument there too), the TCG (not canon? I don't know), and the RPG ("not" canon) - which basically eliminates all possible lore for magic in the WoW universe - we have Void Walkers.

https://twitter.com/DaveKosak/status/442062392281665536
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/12405830492

Which are not demons and are intrinsically related to the void and shadow magic. Then there's also the thematics of affliction, namely focusing spells with vampiric-type mechanics or soul/undead themes (ie soul drain) which have an established in lore relationship to the Void.

The argument for relies mainly on circumstance and assumptions, and the only argument against it is just an argument of ignorance mainly. Really, there's shit for Void/Shadow lore in the first place.

This is of course in spite of the fact that that original post was sarcastic.

Hrm, I didn't know about the Shadow Magic/Void (material plane) connection. I had known about the Voidwalkers and their talk of the 'Void', but did not realize they were talking about an actual place instead of just 'the shadows'.

I remain skeptical that Affliction Warlocks tap into the same magic as the Void (Voidwalkers aside, which isn't specific to Affliction), since I don't see a clear connection between Warlocks and sourcing the Void. Most of those statements do seem to relate to Unholy/Necromancy instead, which makes sense since we even have lore in WoD to support a Shadow Magic/Necromancy connection (Shadowmoon questline). I do have my eyes opened to the possibility that they could be sourcing the same magic now, however.

-Edit- Just FYI, I wouldn't consider any RPG part of canon. Shadowmages are from the RPG, not an actual subclass or archetype relating to Warlocks. While Affliction does state that they are 'masters of shadow magic', the spec is still called Affliction instead of Shadow, which leads me to believe they aren't using the same magic as Shadow Priests. Still, I remain open to the interpretation.

[Larynx]

Hrm, I didn't know about the Shadow Magic/Void (material plane) connection. I had known about the Voidwalkers and their talk of the 'Void', but did not realize they were talking about an actual place instead of just 'the shadows'.

I remain skeptical that Affliction Warlocks tap into the same magic as the Void (Voidwalkers aside, which isn't specific to Affliction), since I don't see a clear connection between Warlocks and sourcing the Void. Most of those statements do seem to relate to Unholy/Necromancy instead, which makes sense since we even have lore in WoD to support a Shadow Magic/Necromancy connection (Shadowmoon questline). I do have my eyes opened to the possibility that they could be sourcing the same magic now, however.

Indeed, Shadow/Void also has a very very close relationship with Unholy/Undeath/Necromancy. Just look at the Forsaken + their Shadow Priests.

I also updated that post with some more evidence + opinion. The elephant in the room are DKs, unfortunately. They have every single Shadow theme already established with other classes (necromancy, diseases, vampiric, generic shadow shit) but they use rune magic, which is basically arcane magic. There's very very strong evidence that the rune magic DKs use actually is derived from the "Realm of Shadows." The Realm of Shadows is basically another plane, very likely an after life (a lot of circumstantial evidence that it's a subset of the Spirit World, which further emphasizes the undead-relationship). It may even be part of the Void.

Anyway, I hope we get more lore in WoD+, because atm it's just threads.

[Aquamonkey]

the TCG (not canon? I don't know)

Blizzard has stated that anything they release except for mods and the RPG is canon.

When something goes out the door at Blizzard—in a game, a novel, a manga, or anything other than mods or the table-top RPG—it's canon. (Source)

That would make TCG canon. Blizzard reuses the TCG art in other official releases (case in point, WoD Khadgar). And the flavor text usually comes from other canon sources.

TCG mechanics stuff has the same pitfalls as WoW's game mechanics stuff when related to magic schools since there is no separate fel school and pmuch everything related to warlocks is lumped into fire or shadow.

[Zulkhan]

We don't have any lore between Draenei and the Death Knights. It's mostly been interpreted that all Death Knights serve under the Horde and Alliance for the 'greater good'. There is no lore to suggest the Draenei openly interact with Death Knights or are accepting of them any more than they are accepting of Warlocks of the other races. From a lore standpoint, Death Knights are absolutely neutral. Do the Draenei accept them because they're victims? It may be possible, but there is no lore to suggest it either way.

As far as we know, Death Knights congregrate at Acherus and await orders from the Alliance leaders on what to do and where to go next. We don't have a whole lot of examples where they're living back with their families or openly accepted into their former societies; especially in the case of Draenei.

Lorewise the amount of Death Knights actually joining Alliance and Horde is very dubious. They could be many; they could be few. But this is not the point.

I never said nor suggested that there's lore regarding the relationship between Death Knights and Draenei. I only noted that Death Knights can be easily made "acceptable" within Draenei society with not much of a stretch. Death Knights can have various goals, but most of what we saw seem hellbent to redeem themselves. Not necessarily becoming lawful good guys, but surely people motivated in doing something productive for their respective people after the shit they did as Lich King's slaves. This, at least, is the logical motivation that should guide every Death Knight that decided to join Alliance or Horde, like Thassarian, Koltira and the playable ones (whatever actual number of them exist).

Otherwise which would have been the point of rejoin the factions and not just stick with the Ebon Blade? Because, apart the playable Death Knights, we had some chance to see Death Knight NPCs belonging to both factions. So the fact that some Death Knights swore loyalty to one faction and not just the Ebon Blade is clearly acknowledged by the lore.

With this premise, and with Darion defining his group of Death Knights as people "craving for personal redemption", having Draenei Death Knights re-embrace their society and its core beliefs and reedem themselves is a story simply too easy to write. And, likewise, given the mentality of the Draenei, they would likely accept people willing to make amend for their past atrocities and be a "force of good".

Indeed, there's no lore suggesting this. But the point is, the possibilities for writing and introducing this stuff without creating plot-holes or inconcistencies are there.

Or you could just unsubscribe if you're not interested in how the thread continues...

But there would be no fun left without a bit of random bitching.

[Kowloon]

At this rate, bring on the Undead Paladins if you want Draenei Warlocks.

[Larynx]

At this rate, bring on the Undead Paladins if you want Draenei Warlocks.

There are actually inlore undead paladins.

http://wowpedia.org/Sir_Zeliek

[Rhlor]

what your looking for is the Eredar as a playable race, and im all for that

thay are so cool