Has MOP been the most retarded boost in gear stats/ilvl ever in WoWs history?

[Deleted]

Yes the ilvl gap is too big. Thats why i loved BC, lower tier gear was actually still good and usable. LFR and Flex ruined it.

[Deleted]

Right. the scaling of the gear has been the same throughout every single expansion, (percentage based) thus a higher number will get higher even faster, its not because they added in lfr and Flex, and therefore they had to increase itemlvls even more.. Its a percentage scale, we notice it more now, when we have bigger numbers to deal with

[Viradiance]

I feel like the devs knew the Squish was coming and went "Go broke or go home" as far as ilevel inflation. Growth from heroic dungeons to heroic SOO +16 is ~120 ilevels, which is crazy.

[Tenjen]

Yep, however the rate of change at ilvl 540+ is way faster then the equivalent rate of change in prior expansions, despite those expansions also using an exponential curve.

thats how an "exponential curve" works. the further it goes along, the larger the rate of change within the same unit of change.

which is why the squish was needed.

it's not "squish coming, increase as much as you want", its not "lets be careless with the gear", its not "smarter ilvl control in the previous expansions". It's the exponential curve established in TBC following up to this point. It worked at the time during those expansions. but no further anymore.

[vqkatsuko]

I still remember when T4 to T5 was only a 13 ilvl jump, man so long ago.

[Deleted]

Yep, however the rate of change at ilvl 540+ is way faster then the equivalent rate of change in prior expansions, despite those expansions also using an exponential curve.

That's kind of the result of an exponential increase. It doesn't pan out at the start of a new expansion, it just keep increasing at an exponential rate. If the rate of change at 540+ hadn't been greater than the equivalent rate of change in prior expansions, it wouldn't be exponential over the duration of all expansions.

That may have come out more complicated than I intended but English is not my native language so I apologize for that.

Edit: Blizzard also told us, like two expansions ago, that it would come to this.

[Raiju]

With lfr and later flex it´s no wonder that the itemlvl of gear went up the way it did. It´ll be the same in WoD

Except it doesn't have to when a) you lower the difference between difficulties and b) don't factor in warforged ilvl and valor upgrades when making new tiers.

Let's just point out that There was a ~30-35! item level increase between tiers, compared to say... 15-20. That's before upgrades get added on.

It's naive to suggest this was a coincidence of the added difficulties when anyone with half a brain could account for that before implementation (I imagine most involved enough to be entering a forum topic about it understand the potential scaling issues involved immediately), it was most likely factored in and left to go crazy because of the incoming squish. It both makes more people feel acceptable it's time for a squish and also would be less important to fix it to only fix it again 12 months later.

[threads]

Yes mostly because stats were already huge, but also because they threw thunderforged and ilvl upgrades into the game that they had to balance around. Without warforged and upgrades heroic SoO gear would've probably been 550-560.

[DeleteThisUser]

The only difference between now and then is how small or large the numbers are. All that matters is feeling like you are upgraded each tier during an expansion, so numbers should be meaningless.

[BurnetRhoades]

The bigger expanse if ilvl was possibly also to counter the fact that in previous expansions higher ilvl, in fact next tier jump in ilvl, didn't always directly translate into better performance, only higher ilvl. Either proc or secondary stat interaction, sockets, etc. would sometimes and in certain combinations offer marked better performance with a lower ilvl piece compared to a variety of higher ilvl items for the same slot. You might mix two tiers for set bonuses or simply keep certain pieces of older tier gear (sometimes even passed the next tier of content) because the set bonus was so good there was no other current gear in game with sufficient performance derived from naive ilvl inflation alone to be a true benefit.

With other changes coming that effect the min-maxers, this seems to follow a philosophy of simplifying the game and removing interesting or unexpected options. Now going up a tier is simply an upgrade because bigger ilvl and there's less room for interesting or unexpected combinations of stats or mechanics. Now you are likely pretty safe just assuming a new piece of higher ilvl is going to really be an upgrade and not just look like an upgrade. It hasn't always been that way, going all the way back to Vanilla and it was a concept that a lot of players had a really hard time wrapping their head around.

I haven't raided in a while but I've always been of a mind that Blizzard could get a lot of mileage out of more content at same tier level encounters by offering pieces of the same ilvl but different stat combinations and different set bonuses. People grind and gear up and push hard to get cosmetic pieces of gear with no stats, after all. Blizzard never really hits the jackpot with a tier set that offers ideal performance for multiple specs of the same class anyway. They never seem to really understand their own stats when designing gear so this would be an alternative to just naively overcoming low levels of tuning with bluntly raising all the numbers which can make certain specs OP while only raising others to more adequate levels.

[britishbubba]

I like how no one ever mentions RPPMs in a discussion like this, because that's where a very large chunk of the dps increase has come from. Trinket uptimes have suddenly doubled due to having a more favorable proc rate towards the beginning of the boss pull (my enh shaman gets 3 haromms procs during the first fire ele on average. 50% uptime during first minute is luls). Trinkets in general have been out of control since ToT dropped. Really don't get what they were thinking with this design.

The ilvl jumps % wise this expansion is actually about in line with every other expansion (well at least before the 4/4 upgrades). This is mostly due to the LFR gear of the next tier, being even (MSV heroic = ToT LFR) or below (ToT Heroic > SoO LFR) and this causes the balance to be off-set a bit.

that and frankly who cares? Install an addon to change your numbers from 1M down to 1 pretty pony if it bothers you so much.

[BurnetRhoades]

Watch people cry how they miss their 500 000 crits in WoD...I swear we will have these threads.

All they'll have to do is step into some old content to solo and the big numbers come back.

[Deleted]

yep it's ridicilous

I was hoping the squish would fix this and we'd finally get reasonable numbers again. but alas blizzard these days is incompetent.

[Asmekiel]

Relatively the differences between wotlk/cata/mop are nearly the same.

Man I am disappointed in the squish...I was it hit even hard...like back down to Vanilla/TBC levels.

Was never planned, nor did anything indicate it might go that far.

[MetroStratics]

If by "retarded" you mean drastic, yes there is no denying it.
Its really not a bad thing, except for the fact that the stability of encounters were being effected because of the massive numbers.
In WoD you will have your numbers by around 10x or greater, and after healthpools become doubled.
People are doing around 10-15k DPS scalled down to 600 in the dungeons, so I'd imagine 20-30k will be very good for raids again.

Looking forward to it.

It can't physically go any lower though, because then the gear from previous expansions would have to have like negative stats on it.

[Baconeggcheese]

ILVL ramp happened because LFR + item upgrades + thunderforged (warforged) + flex made it so that they had to have a massive leap for every tier in order for upgrades to still be meaningful.

There wasn't 4 levels of difficulty in BC with +6 ilvl gear and +8 ilvls of upgrades, which is why you didn't see such huge leaps.

[sizzlinsauce]

Yeah, I'm talking about Warlords, just clarifying that the ilvl ramp up is going to be just as big, if not bigger.

ah warlords. yea HP is way too high. i was NOT expecting people to be basically playing cataclysm again IE 200k hp....

[Nirty999]

That's because in every raid tier you now have LFR, flex, normal and Heroic while in tbc you only had "normal" this means every raid tier you now have 4 ilvl jumps instead of 1.

[Kayda]

Yes it definitely has been

[Asmekiel]

ah warlords. yea HP is way too high. i was NOT expecting people to be basically playing cataclysm again IE 200k hp....

If you only look at HP, you're doing it wrong.