When will World of Warcraft become World of Warcraft again? the spark is long lost.

[Primernova]

Seriously, doing LFR and then whining that it's too easy today would be pretty much the same as farming Dire Maul in Vanilla and whining that it was too easy. Just doesn't mean anything.

Dire Maul in Vanilla, was hard. Your attitude is why no one ever took you along on Tribute, tome, Dreadsted or Quel'seear runs there.

I did all of that, multiple time, and it was glorious!

That time is over I guess, it's your 'tiem' now.

[HeedmySpeed]

Again, it`s not just the leveling. It`s everything. When I list all the things that have been wrecked, nerfed and trivialized I get accused of writing "essays" and when I list an example like this, people pretend the example is the only thing that`s wrong.
Let me give you another example anyway: in WotLK the harvesting time for herbs and ore was reduced from five seconds (It think. Unless it was even longer. I can`t find any info and can`t remember exactly.) to two seconds.
Respawn of nodes had already been nerfed at least twice during classic and TBC, and multiple nodes for ore was removed as well. Why was all this done? Who in the world was bothered enough by this to complain that harvesting was "too hard"? I had never before heard anybody complain about it, never read a single post complaining about it on the forums, yet Blizzard nerfed the entire thing to shit. Yes, to shit. When combined with the introduction of flying mounts this made farming mats trivial, when it used to be a risky and time-consuming endeavor, likely to get you embroiled in genuine, and usually vicious, PVP. Nothing like competing for nodes with an evenly matched enemy, when both are as desperate to get their mats farmed. In fact, the main reason I had to learn how to PVP originally was that I absolutely had to farm herbs to be able to raid. And to be able to farm herbs I absolutely had to learn how to defend myself. And this then made both farming and PVP meaningful, rather than some trivial afterthought as it has been since WotLK.
So a few nerfs and a helping of convenience and an entire part of the game was wrecked. And it`s one example of hundreds and hundreds, because everything has been nerfed. Usually over and over and over again. What an MMORPG needs more than anything is a persistent world. You cannot continually have challenging efforts be made pointless by nerfs. Someone has spent weeks and months working the hard content, only to have their efforts turned to nothing by nerfs, which make people able to do the same thing you have done in one tenth the time or less. The reason for this is that nothing has meaning in such a game, and there`s no incentive for long term effort of any kind. In fact it is being actively discouraged by Blizzard and has been for many years.

That sounds awesome. PvP with a real motives.

I remember in Wrath there was a bug with a rogue lowbie quest that prevents you from stealthing, but the quest didn't give you an elixir to cleanse it off. It was a 6 day debuff or something.

I thought it was intentional (being new) and that I had to go back to orgri and ask for a player to cleanse it off.
I thought it was genius game design that makes you interact with your faction and take part in the world.

But anything like that these days would get bashed by the casualites.

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Everything is trivial? What do you mean by, "Everything" exactly? The top end content is as hard as ever, as has always been the case. Content below that has always been easier. Nothing new, really. Seems like a lot of people - both in WoW and in other games - point at LFR and say, "See? WoW is so easy now." which makes no sense.

Top content is now more optional than ever. End game content use to be the raid, not a version of it.
So "WoW is easy" would be ignoring full achievements, maxed level pets, BiS gear, cutting edge achieves, all farmable mounts, or a gold cap on 12 alts.... but you can't honestly think any of this stuff matters enough to be considered a full fledged experience of WoW.

Luckily we're seeing Mythic getting it's own gear models as well as elite gear in WoD which I hope will be enough to make doing either worth while.

Yes, MoP 5-mans were undertuned (Even Blizzard acknowledged this) but 5-man and other content being soloable isn't exactly something new either.

What's with the assumptions that people who want the old days back want the flaws that comes with it?
Inviable class specs and one-shotting people in PvP can all stay in hell.

[Deleted]

Luckily we're seeing Mythic getting it's own gear models as well as elite gear in WoD which I hope will be enough to make doing either worth while.

What mythic really needs are its own, separate 5 mans and raid instances. That would put real progression back into the game, while still having other content for players that just want to "see the content".

[Packing an i5]

the answer is never get over it, find something else to do. Blizzard has become a greedy faceless corporation aimed at pleasing the audience of kids that play the game for a week and quit.

[Coronius]

Can't make these threads. Casual players and content surfers will take personal offense.

[Deviant]

If it was so bad in TBC why did u play back then?

I hadn't played better yet. BC was fun for it's time but now I can't even play private server versions of it. So much rng in pvp it makes zero sense.

[Lupinemancer]

Althought I don't agree with the Whole it's not WARcraft anymore bullshit, I do agree that the game has become way to easy for ppl.
Back in Vanilla, not only did you have to run all the way from Menethil Habour to IF if you were a NE, all of those good old days were what made it fun to play WoW. Don't get me wrong, I love how the game has evolved, I just don't like how easy it has become.

[Independent voter]

If the spark is lost for you, move on. Sing the Frozen song.

Try Wildstar or Eve. No need to troll those who like the game.

[ryanmahaffe]

If the spark is lost for you, move on. Sing the Frozen song.

Try Wildstar or Eve. No need to troll those who like the game.

I would say Wildstar or RIFT, because they are similar enough to wow to provide a spark and they both have uber challenging raid content

[Bentusi]

Frustrating things when they relate too poor design, poor quality-of-life issues, and so on aren't good by any means.

"Frustrating" as it relates to actual challenge can be fine, but pushing to have "Frustration for frustrations sake" seems masochistic at best.



You don't HAVE to do any of this.



Again, "inconvenience for inconveniences sake" isn't something that designers should be aiming for.

And yes, people doing the actual hard content still have to plan ahead and work together. If you're just doing LFR and then lamenting that you don't have to "plan" anything, well that's not a reflection on the rest of the game. Do something else.



Actually, most guilds actually doing the top end content have agreed that the endgame bosses in recent expansions have been some of the hardest ever.

Vanilla wasn't "harder", it was just less polished, more grindy, more "inconvenient".

Seriously, doing LFR and then whining that it's too easy today would be pretty much the same as farming Dire Maul in Vanilla and whining that it was too easy. Just doesn't mean anything.

Oh don`t worry. I`m not doing anything in WoW and haven`t for a couple of years. I just don`t think some people quite get the design concepts for MMORPGs around here. What people are criticizing as unpolished is the genre. The reason it took 30 minutes to get from one end of a continent to the other wasn`t to deliberately make it inconvenient but to make the world big, so it would be exciting to adventure in. Right? Why would you want a small world in your MMORPG, with teleports all over the place and flying mounts?
And when it comes to raids (Since you people always seem to return to that as some sort of alibi that WoW still exists, when it in fact does not.) yes the main reason I lost interest was precisely that they added several different versions of everything, so all the scrubs could "see the content". It was a horrible idea. I wanted more gear diversity, and no not transmog, which is almost as silly as pet battles, but real diversity. In TBC my main complaint was that all three shammy sets were blue. Would it have been so hard to make it blue for elemental, green for resto and red for enhancement? And then in Wrath, not only did they not do anything of the sort to add variation, but the gear you got for doing things on mong mode looked exactly like the gear you got if you did it on "hard" mode. And it effing sucked! At least for me nothing could have possibly turned me off raiding more than Wrath did, and all I bothered doing in Cataclysm before I quit was PVP. And no, it is not because "heroic" modes are "hard". My guild burned through all of that and spent most of Wrath and Cataclysm sitting around in Dalaran/Stormwind, bored out of their minds. And I was their best healer in TBC, so if I had wanted to I could have done all that with the guild. And it would have been easy, with the exception of one or two heroic fights. Of course, even those were like 35 wipes tops so trivial compared to the hard ones in BC and Classic.
But I didn`t bother doing it because it was shit. S-H-I-T. Just like the rest of the "game".


WoW after TBC

[notorious98]

Althought I don't agree with the Whole it's not WARcraft anymore bullshit, I do agree that the game has become way to easy for ppl.
Back in Vanilla, not only did you have to run all the way from Menethil Habour to IF if you were a NE, all of those good old days were what made it fun to play WoW. Don't get me wrong, I love how the game has evolved, I just don't like how easy it has become.

Nothing about the amount of travel you had to do by foot was "fun". The game isn't easier, the content is just more accessible. The reason why there were less people who saw Naxx40 or BT wasn't necessarily because the content was harder as opposed to the accessibility of said content was much smaller. Grinding out resist gear. Guilds poaching attuned players from guilds, leaving those guilds to find new players that needed to be attuned. Those tasks weren't difficult. They were tedious. Those two terms are mutually exclusive. Having to run everywhere isn't difficult, it's tedious and artificially time consuming.

Every person I hear talk about how easy the game is compared to Classic reminds me of the old guy who used to have to walk to school in the snow, uphill, both ways.

[Hakto]

rose coloured glasses about how 'great' the game was in vanilla. /thread

[notorious98]

*snip*

Your post started out well and then quickly went downhill. Yes, flying mounts were a terrible idea that made the world smaller. Can't agree with that enough. The rest is just a bunch of narcissism that MIGHT be true, but likely isn't. Nothing like tooting your own horn when you know that nobody can prove that you're not telling the truth about how great you are. My guess is that you're just another try-hard.

[Luko]

Oh don`t worry. I`m not doing anything in WoW and haven`t for a couple of years. I just don`t think some people quite get the design concepts for MMORPGs around here. What people are criticizing as unpolished is the genre. The reason it took 30 minutes to get from one end of a continent to the other wasn`t to deliberately make it inconvenient but to make the world big, so it would be exciting to adventure in. Right? Why would you want a small world in your MMORPG, with teleports all over the place and flying mounts?
And when it comes to raids (Since you people always seem to return to that as some sort of alibi that WoW still exists, when it in fact does not.) yes the main reason I lost interest was precisely that they added several different versions of everything, so all the scrubs could "see the content". It was a horrible idea. I wanted more gear diversity, and no not transmog, which is almost as silly as pet battles, but real diversity. In TBC my main complaint was that all three shammy sets were blue. Would it have been so hard to make it blue for elemental, green for resto and red for enhancement? And then in Wrath, not only did they not do anything of the sort to add variation, but the gear you got for doing things on mong mode looked exactly like the gear you got if you did it on "hard" mode. And it effing sucked! At least for me nothing could have possibly turned me off raiding more than Wrath did, and all I bothered doing in Cataclysm before I quit was PVP. And no, it is not because "heroic" modes are "hard". My guild burned through all of that and spent most of Wrath and Cataclysm sitting around in Dalaran/Stormwind, bored out of their minds. And I was their best healer in TBC, so if I had wanted to I could have done all that with the guild. And it would have been easy, with the exception of one or two heroic fights. Of course, even those were like 35 wipes tops so trivial compared to the hard ones in BC and Classic.
But I didn`t bother doing it because it was shit. S-H-I-T. Just like the rest of the "game".

[IMG]http://blog.0100.tv/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/shit.gif[IMG]
WoW after TBC

So, in other words. Wait, let me make sure I've gotten this strait. In other words, what you're saying is that rather than "The game was better in Vanilla/Tbc", you're actually saying you had a less than desirable experience in Wrath/Cata and instead of writing it off as a game that you didn't like as much as everyone else (12+million subs in Wrath) you've become deadset on the concept that the game was simply better as a WHOLE before your waned interest in it?

I do believe I'm confused.

You believe that we don't "get the design concept" for MMOs? So, you didn't have much fun in Cata so we're not comprehending an entire genre's design concept? Even though we're obviously still playing and enjoying the game, we just don't get it. Am I all caught up?

Look, man. Eventually you're going to have to start rereading the stuff that you've written in these walls of text. You're going to have to get past the opinion barrier and say to yourself "Holy shit I'm saying some close minded stuff! Some of these things don't really apply to anyone but me personally and here I am trying to push them onto others as if it proves ANYTHING outside of the fact that I have an opinion! That's gotta stop!"

[KeenEnthusiast9370]

@ Everztar and people that think the same as you.

Your virtual world is a giant bubble, you are conditioned to think a way that the criminal take over establishment wants you to think. they don't wan't you to be a free thinker. you are responsible for maintaining a healthy mind. the bubble i described has outside forces and here is just one point. the bubble of the virtual world is mostly unaware of the outside forces destroying the bubble of the virtual world.

http://mashable.com/2011/05/26/china...rrency-market/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_farming

why is your virtual world destroyed you ask? and i answer look else where to find out why your virtual world is decimated.

[Deleted]

Nothing about the amount of travel you had to do by foot was "fun".

It made it fun to me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

The game isn't easier, the content is just more accessible.

It's made accessible by making it easier.

[Deleted]

I'd say the one thing that I enjoyed in Vanilla that you really can't do today was blockading zones and such on PvP servers.

Nowadays people just fly over you (Thanks, TBC! Stupid flying mount gimmck you brought us.) but that actually was pretty fun back in the day.

hearing about flying mounts for the first time was like: OMFG WOW!!!! but then it sucked... when we actually got to try it :3

[Bentusi]

So, in other words. Wait, let me make sure I've gotten this strait. In other words, what you're saying is that rather than "The game was better in Vanilla/Tbc", you're actually saying you had a less than desirable experience in Wrath/Cata and instead of writing it off as a game that you didn't like as much as everyone else (12+million subs in Wrath) you've become deadset on the concept that the game was simply better as a WHOLE before your waned interest in it?

I do believe I'm confused.

You believe that we don't "get the design concept" for MMOs? So, you didn't have much fun in Cata so we're not comprehending an entire genre's design concept? Even though we're obviously still playing and enjoying the game, we just don't get it. Am I all caught up?

Look, man. Eventually you're going to have to start rereading the stuff that you've written in these walls of text. You're going to have to get past the opinion barrier and say to yourself "Holy shit I'm saying some close minded stuff! Some of these things don't really apply to anyone but me personally and here I am trying to push them onto others as if it proves ANYTHING outside of the fact that I have an opinion! That's gotta stop!"

Close minded schlose minded! You`re projecting your preconceptions onto me, which is why I get so tired of trying to explain simple stuff here. My "interest didn`t wane". The game changed from demanding to pointless, and I have explained this over and over again in the posts you obviously didn`t understand. If it hadn`t I would still be playing. Is it sinking in now or do I have to repeat it again? And once again the 12 million peak happened because WoW was a good game BEFORE Wrath. The drop off started in Wrath because of all the catering to the bads and the mongs, and it has dropped steadily ever since. And even if it hadn`t, more people have heroin addictions and use prostitutes that play WoW, so clearly, according to your feeble majority logic, these are even better ideas than playing WoW! To adults and intelligent people though, the amount of people doing something is no argument for anything. It is even a logical fallacy to bring it up. Not that anyone here is very concerned with logic though. You`re apparently entirely unable to engage in an adult conversation about the actual changes made to WoW, which is why I have been reduce to posting turds. You have reduced me to this level with your mindlessness and Orwellian slogans.

The only close minded people here are you and your ilk.

[notorious98]

It made it fun to me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I'm willing to bet that more people agree with me. I have no problem with ground mounts at lower levels. It doesn't slim down the world in the same way that flying mounts do. But running? Boring and artificially lengthening the leveling process.

It's made accessible by making it easier.

No, it's more accessible by eliminating tedious tasks like long attunements. My guess is that you never actually dealt with attunements in your life. You probably say you have, but my bet is that you haven't. Which means you likely were never in a guild that was constantly having their best players leave to join guilds that had progressed further. Which means you were never having to constantly waste valuable progression time because you were forced to run through previous content in order to attune new recruits. That type of shit helped to destroy guilds during that time period.

By the way, content doesn't become more accessible by being easier. Only the content itself can be easy or hard. The ability to access the content has no bearing on the difficulty of said content. I can walk into a raid as a fresh max level in questing greens. Just because I can walk in doesn't mean I can kill anything.

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You`re projecting your preconceptions onto me, which is why I get so tired of trying to explain simple stuff here.

His comment was purely based on everything that you said. What preconceptions would he have about somebody with a total of 37 posts?

And once again the 12 million peak happened because WoW was a good game BEFORE Wrath. The drop off started in Wrath because of all the catering to the bads and the mongs, and it has dropped steadily ever since.

Uh, the game had over 12 million subscribers after Cataclysm launched. So what the hell are you even talking about?

You`re apparently entirely unable to engage in an adult conversation about the actual changes made to WoW, which is why I have been reduce to posting turds. You have reduced me to this level with your mindlessness and Orwellian slogans.

The is some of the dumbest drivel I've seen posted in a while. I don't think anybody reduced you to this level. From seeing your posts, I'd say you were already living at this level long before.

[Skarzog]

You can add as many body modifications as your want to your 2004 Honda Civic. I mean sure you can keep slapping on new flame decals, trying out new rims, adding a cool fin, and make the doors go up like they do on a Lamborghini... Why? Cause reasons, that's why. But eventually you will come to the realization that's its still just your 2004 Honda Civic under all that and the miles are starting to add up, even for a Japanese car.