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  1. #681
    people saying nostalgia either clearly never played vanilla or were didnt like/couldnt handle the challenge.

    i would love a brand new lvl 60 server starting with the original ony/mc raids, then patching every x months to more content. even tbc was fun (a little less challenging but still fun). if they continued patching after vanilla to tbc/wotlk it would be awesome. doing the content in content appropriate gear again (without all the new talents and spells that exist now if you wanted to redo it)

    I cant think it would be that hard to do, they have to have those itterations of the game lying around somewhere. just throw them on a server.

  2. #682
    The Lightbringer vian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangetai420 View Post
    Sorry but it won't.

    The X-Box live generation wants instant gratification with menus and matchmaking. Most don't care about immersion, they want quick groups with zero effort.

    Enjoy what is left before its gone.
    This here, Ladies and Gentlemen, might just be the wisest words on the internet right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by bizzy View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  3. #683
    *Wall of text crits for 9999999999999999999k*

    *Interest dies.*


    Also: Hey! Soloing the normal version of a raid in Heroic raid gear while that raid is still relevant is fun. Don't knock it til you've tried it.

  4. #684
    Quote Originally Posted by Everztar View Post
    It is indeed more balanced... No doubt... Bu t i want the RPG and community back, I never said that balancing was bad or anything, it's very good now and new spells are fun... But crossrealm fuked up a lotion things for me tbh I can't have friends like before or anything no pride either, cuz people look at my legendary and think: lol I have that too :P and blah blah
    Can't have friends. That is nonsense. LOL

    Shame you need others to make your legendary feel like an accomplishment. I mean if you feel you didn't "earn" it that's one thing, but to feel less/no pride in an accomplishment because others have done it to is silly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by vian View Post
    This here, Ladies and Gentlemen, might just be the wisest words on the internet right now.
    Sharing an opinion does not make it wise or even correct.

    WoW is certainly easy, but everything has an effort cost associated with it, and things that require more effort, or at least more skill have higher rewards.

    It's just now there isn't just the high cost and thus exclusive shit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrandir View Post
    My starfall brings all the mobs to the yard.
    Laurellen - Druid Smiteyou - lol holy dps

  5. #685
    Bloodsail Admiral salate's Avatar
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    Nostalgia is a bad thing, and good aswell.
    You do remember the best moments of *paste name* and sometimes trying to retry and repeat those warm feelings you once had before.

    That's how not only WoW but life works
    step into everything will gief ya nothing, mon

  6. #686
    Personally I still have a lot of fun playing the game. It's different, yes, but different does not always mean worse.

  7. #687
    The Lightbringer vian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamingmuscle View Post
    Sharing an opinion does not make it wise or even correct.
    No, but stating obvious facts does.
    Quote Originally Posted by bizzy View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  8. #688
    Quote Originally Posted by Bentusi View Post
    As long as they stop calling it an RPG I agree that this might work. The real solution to my mind is to equip every class and spec with unique buffs and utilities, which will be required or beneficial in many raids, if not all of them. As long as no particular class is excluded entirely this would work alright, and keep the RPG elements the game depended on. There isn`t a single RPG I have ever played where you would ever start out by thinking "I want to do loads and loads of dps. I know, I`ll roll a priest!". I mean, it`s brain dead. But in WoW that is now how the game has turned out, and it`s the main reason for the exodus of players and why we`re having this discussion. It`s not because I`m burned out or living in the past or because you`re stupid and a fan boy. It`s because the game has objectively change from one genre to another.

    As for easy mode, you are , as usual, pretending that raids are the game. Sure, there were fights that were easy in Vanilla, and particularly for ranged dps. But most of the time things could be fairly unforgiving for both healers and tanks, and a lot more so than after TBC. Chromaggus is a good example. One slight prehealing mistake from a healer and the tank died instantly so you wiped. If anything like that had been introduced today there would be whining loud enough to wake the dead, from all the entitled slackers who have gotten used to WoW kiddie mode. Yes, kiddie mode. Outside of the raids EVERYTHING has been nerfed to shit, including everything from leveling to harvesting times. No matter what game element you want to consider, it has been trivialized so much that WoW as a matter of fact no longer is an MMORPG. And with raids coming in Slightly hard, Normal and Knuckledragger modes, even that has been bastardized and made unexciting. Who wants to waste time doing something any slob can press a button and do too, without any problems at all? Not me! You raided for the excitement of seeing things not everyone could get to and to find gear nobody else could find. And that`s just the end of it. Nobody ever raided to get "achievement" number 6927, a title or some ridiculous mount nobody cares about anyway, because the game is so swamped with cheap, fake achievements of all kinds.

    RPG is a vast definition (in video gaming), I have seen many interpretations and many games labelled as "RPGs", I don't care what genre it is, I prefer WoW like it is now than in Vanilla/BC.

    Challenges modes, Proving grounds endless mode, Brawler's guild, Timeless isle rares and Yaun'gols aren't nerfed to shit. Yes, they aren't extremely hard, but it will require time investment and skill, so you can't say that there is no challenge anymore.

    Yes, my main interest in WoW are the raids, so I care mainly about raids. And there are a lot of fights in Heroic where you can wipe easily if one player makes a small mistake (Jin'rokh, Tortos, Durumu, Dark Animus, Lei shen, Malkorok, Spoils, Thok, Blackfuse, Garrosh). I don't care if there is a LFR / Flex / Normal mode that everybody did, what I care about is clearing challenging bosses with my friends. My main goal isn't to sit at Orgrimmar with my Heroic gear and mount so everybody envies me.

    But guess what ? Blizzard is going to introduce mythic sets with unique style, mythic raiders will get their special set that the "slobs" won't have and will be able to afk in the main hubs.

    I don't really care about mounts or achievements either, sure, I will probably end with the Garrosh mount, but it's not a goal for me, it's a bonus.
    Last edited by ThunderTaco; 2014-08-06 at 03:15 PM.

  9. #689
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderTaco View Post
    RPG is a vast definition (in video gaming), I have seen many interpretations and many games labelled as "RPGs", I don't care what genre it is, I prefer WoW like it is now than in Vanilla/BC.

    Challenges modes, Proving grounds endless mode, Brawler's guild, Timeless isle rares and Yaun'gols aren't nerfed to shit. Yes, they aren't extremely hard, but it will require time investment and skill, so you can't say that there is no challenge anymore.

    Yes, my main interest in WoW are the raids, so I can mainly about raids. And there are a lot of fights in Heroic where you can wipe eaily if one player makes a small mistake (Jin'rokh, Tortos, Durumu, Dark Animus, Lei shen, Malkorok, Spoils, Thok, Blackfuse, Garrosh). I don't care if there is a LFR / Flex / Normal mode that everybody did, what I care about is clearing challenging bosses with my friends. My main goal isn't to sit at Orgrimmar with my Heroic gear and mount so everybody envies me.

    But guess what ? Blizzard is going to introduce mythic sets with unique style, mythic raiders will get their special set that the "slobs" won't have and will be able to afk in the main hubs.

    I don't really care about mounts or achievements either, sure, I will probably end with the Garrosh mount, but it's not a goal for me, it's a bonus.
    alright, tbh... i don't even care if it's hard or not... i still want the community to go back to the same it was in vanilla/tbc. before Crossrealm was invented.
    i hate crossrealm :3

  10. #690
    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderTaco View Post
    RPG is a vast definition (in video gaming), I have seen many interpretations and many games labelled as "RPGs", I don't care what genre it is, I prefer WoW like it is now than in Vanilla/BC.

    Challenges modes, Proving grounds endless mode, Brawler's guild, Timeless isle rares and Yaun'gols aren't nerfed to shit. Yes, they aren't extremely hard, but it will require time investment and skill, so you can't say that there is no challenge anymore.

    Yes, my main interest in WoW are the raids, so I care mainly about raids. And there are a lot of fights in Heroic where you can wipe easily if one player makes a small mistake (Jin'rokh, Tortos, Durumu, Dark Animus, Lei shen, Malkorok, Spoils, Thok, Blackfuse, Garrosh). I don't care if there is a LFR / Flex / Normal mode that everybody did, what I care about is clearing challenging bosses with my friends. My main goal isn't to sit at Orgrimmar with my Heroic gear and mount so everybody envies me.

    But guess what ? Blizzard is going to introduce mythic sets with unique style, mythic raiders will get their special set that the "slobs" won't have and will be able to afk in the main hubs.

    I don't really care about mounts or achievements either, sure, I will probably end with the Garrosh mount, but it's not a goal for me, it's a bonus.
    Because I quit after the second pointless expansion in a row during Cataclysm I can`t verify any of this. But what I can say is that the things you`re listing is a microscopic part of any MMORPG and of WoW. The problem is the entire game being nerfed, and not whether or not isolated pockets of game play may or may not be somewhat difficult still. And I know from experience that most of the "hard" things remaining in Wrath and Cataclysm were all really secretly pretty easy, because you outgeared everything very quickly. And that goes back to gear welfare and OP gear being too easily available.
    If what you`re saying is correct and some of the new raid fights punish mistakes from single players that`s good. But it`s also the first time really since TBC, so about time. In WotLK in particular, half the raid could stand in fire and you`d still down most bosses.

    But again, it`s not just raids. Like I said earlier, it takes five times as long to level to 60 in vanilla on a x1 private server than it does to level to 90 on a retail server. And that`s without having a level 90 character handed to you by Blizzard. It`s just totally unacceptable, and it attracts the worst kind of gamers. Pointless professions, pointless 5 man dungeons - where you used to learn how to play the game in classic and TBC -, flying mounts removing WPVP and on and on. And the things that haven`t been nerfed have been made "convenient" so nobody ever has to put any effort in to do anything. And even if the raids were now made suitably hard again they`ve still been nerfed because you don`t need to farm for them anymore. And this is not MMORPG, whether you like it or not, and should stop marketing itself as one.

  11. #691
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Bentusi View Post
    Because I quit after the second pointless expansion in a row during Cataclysm I can`t verify any of this. But what I can say is that the things you`re listing is a microscopic part of any MMORPG and of WoW. The problem is the entire game being nerfed, and not whether or not isolated pockets of game play may or may not be somewhat difficult still. And I know from experience that most of the "hard" things remaining in Wrath and Cataclysm were all really secretly pretty easy, because you outgeared everything very quickly. And that goes back to gear welfare and OP gear being too easily available.
    If what you`re saying is correct and some of the new raid fights punish mistakes from single players that`s good. But it`s also the first time really since TBC, so about time. In WotLK in particular, half the raid could stand in fire and you`d still down most bosses.

    But again, it`s not just raids. Like I said earlier, it takes five times as long to level to 60 in vanilla on a x1 private server than it does to level to 90 on a retail server. And that`s without having a level 90 character handed to you by Blizzard. It`s just totally unacceptable, and it attracts the worst kind of gamers. Pointless professions, pointless 5 man dungeons - where you used to learn how to play the game in classic and TBC -, flying mounts removing WPVP and on and on. And the things that haven`t been nerfed have been made "convenient" so nobody ever has to put any effort in to do anything. And even if the raids were now made suitably hard again they`ve still been nerfed because you don`t need to farm for them anymore. And this is not MMORPG, whether you like it or not, and should stop marketing itself as one.
    Indeed leveling is superbooring now that you level too fast... Which is annoying cuz I used to enjoy leveling slow... :/

  12. #692
    Quote Originally Posted by Everztar View Post
    Primo, Enhancement Shaman of Darksorrow who had the hand of Ragnaros... > any dps
    The windfury was sick as fuck... I'm telling you

    There was a lot of shadowpriest and fury warriors too, I knew a good balance druid... The reason why druids were playing healers or priest playing healers is simply because: Makes don't wanna trade gear with priests, hunters shouldn't have to fight over gear with a shaman and druids shouldn't have to fight over gear with a rogue... However... There was plenty of people on my realm playing shadow, feral, elemental an such...
    That one item which btw was rare did make shamans have great BURST for a time bit it was not as good DPS as other classes sadly. Rogues in t2 and above gear destroyed enhancement on DPS and hand of rag slowly lost its edge. If you were in a serious raiding guild who wanted to compete it was healing for druids shamans and priests. We got that fixed in the pre TBC patch and the hybrid roles became a lot better at dps and buffing. I know some guilds who let people do w/e specs they wanted their guilds never got far sadly. The best thing that happened was the day Hybrids got some buffs then in Wrath it all got a level playing field.

  13. #693
    Quote Originally Posted by Bentusi View Post
    Because I quit after the second pointless expansion in a row during Cataclysm I can`t verify any of this. But what I can say is that the things you`re listing is a microscopic part of any MMORPG and of WoW. The problem is the entire game being nerfed, and not whether or not isolated pockets of game play may or may not be somewhat difficult still. And I know from experience that most of the "hard" things remaining in Wrath and Cataclysm were all really secretly pretty easy, because you outgeared everything very quickly. And that goes back to gear welfare and OP gear being too easily available.
    If what you`re saying is correct and some of the new raid fights punish mistakes from single players that`s good. But it`s also the first time really since TBC, so about time. In WotLK in particular, half the raid could stand in fire and you`d still down most bosses.

    But again, it`s not just raids. Like I said earlier, it takes five times as long to level to 60 in vanilla on a x1 private server than it does to level to 90 on a retail server. And that`s without having a level 90 character handed to you by Blizzard. It`s just totally unacceptable, and it attracts the worst kind of gamers. Pointless professions, pointless 5 man dungeons - where you used to learn how to play the game in classic and TBC -, flying mounts removing WPVP and on and on. And the things that haven`t been nerfed have been made "convenient" so nobody ever has to put any effort in to do anything. And even if the raids were now made suitably hard again they`ve still been nerfed because you don`t need to farm for them anymore. And this is not MMORPG, whether you like it or not, and should stop marketing itself as one.
    Yes, if you like hard leveling, WoW isn't the perfect game for you. If you want a game where everything is challenging and every decision is important, there are other games for that.

    Again, I don't care how they call the game, MMORPG, MMOACTION or whatever, I care about the features of the game, and there are enough WoW features to keep me playing.

  14. #694
    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderTaco View Post
    Yes, if you like hard leveling, WoW isn't the perfect game for you. If you want a game where everything is challenging and every decision is important, there are other games for that.

    Again, I don't care how they call the game, MMORPG, MMOACTION or whatever, I care about the features of the game, and there are enough WoW features to keep me playing.
    Right, so now that the casual carebears have taken over the game , WoW isn't the game for me, got it. I think I'll come move into your house and say if you don't like me there then this house isn't for you.
    Not a perfect example but you get the idea,

  15. #695
    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderTaco View Post
    Yes, if you like hard leveling, WoW isn't the perfect game for you. If you want a game where everything is challenging and every decision is important, there are other games for that.

    Again, I don't care how they call the game, MMORPG, MMOACTION or whatever, I care about the features of the game, and there are enough WoW features to keep me playing.
    Again, it`s not just the leveling. It`s everything. When I list all the things that have been wrecked, nerfed and trivialized I get accused of writing "essays" and when I list an example like this, people pretend the example is the only thing that`s wrong.
    Let me give you another example anyway: in WotLK the harvesting time for herbs and ore was reduced from five seconds (It think. Unless it was even longer. I can`t find any info and can`t remember exactly.) to two seconds.
    Respawn of nodes had already been nerfed at least twice during classic and TBC, and multiple nodes for ore was removed as well. Why was all this done? Who in the world was bothered enough by this to complain that harvesting was "too hard"? I had never before heard anybody complain about it, never read a single post complaining about it on the forums, yet Blizzard nerfed the entire thing to shit. Yes, to shit. When combined with the introduction of flying mounts this made farming mats trivial, when it used to be a risky and time-consuming endeavor, likely to get you embroiled in genuine, and usually vicious, PVP. Nothing like competing for nodes with an evenly matched enemy, when both are as desperate to get their mats farmed. In fact, the main reason I had to learn how to PVP originally was that I absolutely had to farm herbs to be able to raid. And to be able to farm herbs I absolutely had to learn how to defend myself. And this then made both farming and PVP meaningful, rather than some trivial afterthought as it has been since WotLK.
    So a few nerfs and a helping of convenience and an entire part of the game was wrecked. And it`s one example of hundreds and hundreds, because everything has been nerfed. Usually over and over and over again. What an MMORPG needs more than anything is a persistent world. You cannot continually have challenging efforts be made pointless by nerfs. Someone has spent weeks and months working the hard content, only to have their efforts turned to nothing by nerfs, which make people able to do the same thing you have done in one tenth the time or less. The reason for this is that nothing has meaning in such a game, and there`s no incentive for long term effort of any kind. In fact it is being actively discouraged by Blizzard and has been for many years.

    Last edited by Bentusi; 2014-08-09 at 02:24 PM.

  16. #696
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Bentusi View Post
    Again, it`s not just the leveling. It`s everything. When I list all the things that have been wrecked, nerfed and trivialized I get accused of writing "essays" and when I list an example like this, people pretend the example is the only thing that`s wrong.
    Let me give you another example anyway: in WotLK the harvesting time for herbs and ore was reduced from five seconds (It think. Unless it was even longer. I can`t find any info and can`t remember exactly.) to two seconds.
    Respawn of nodes had already been nerfed at least twice during classic and TBC, and multiple nodes for ore was removed as well. Why was all this done? Who in the world was bothered enough by this to complain that harvesting was "too hard"? I had never before heard anybody complain about it, never read a single post complaining about it on the forums, yet Blizzard nerfed the entire thing to shit. Yes, to shit. When combined with the introduction of flying mounts this made farming mats trivial, when it used to be a risky and time-consuming endeavor, likely to get you embroiled in genuine, and usually vicious, PVP. Nothing like competing for nodes with an evenly matched enemy, when both are as desperate to get their mats farmed. In fact, the main reason I had to learn how to PVP originally was that I absolutely had to farm herbs to be able to raid. And to be able to farm herbs I absolutely had to learn how to defend myself. And this then made both farming and PVP meaningful, rather than some trivial afterthought as it has been since WotLK.
    So a few nerfs and a helping of convenience and an entire part of the game was wrecked. And it`s one example of hundreds and hundreds, because everything has been nerfed. Usually over and over and over again. What and MMORPG needs more than anything is a persistent world. You cannot continually have challenging efforts be made pointless by nerfs. Someone has spent weeks and months working the hard content, only to have their efforts turned to nothing by nerfs, which make people able to do the same thing you have done in one tenth the time or less. The reason for this is that nothing has meaning in such a game, and there`s no incentive for long term effort of any kind. In fact it is being actively discouraged by Blizzard and has been for many years.

    they messed up pretty much :3

  17. #697
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Everztar View Post
    Indeed leveling is superbooring now that you level too fast... Which is annoying cuz I used to enjoy leveling slow... :/
    Levelling was always part of the game up to the point in Wrath when they 'streamlined' questing. Now its just a hinderance to everyone cos everyone wants to be at max level cos thats where the game really is. Thats by design.

    Basically, the from level 1 to max used to be 'adventuring' and 'exploring' and now its called 'levelling'. That speaks volumes about just how differently that part of the game functions in the big scheme of things... its position in the game is different now.

  18. #698
    Wow. Lots of people on this thread with nostalgia boogers in their eyes; nevermind rose-tinted goggles. I was there during BC and I sure as hell don't want to go back to that.

  19. #699
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Doomthulsa View Post
    I was there during BC and I sure as hell don't want to go back to that.
    If it was so bad in TBC why did u play back then?

  20. #700
    I think WoW is much the same as it's ever been.

    Nothing has been lost, it's just become old and tired.

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