6 Death Runes! - DK Design

[Clash the DK]

This is an mock design for Death Knights showing how a change to 6 "Death Runes" or just 6 regular same-type Runes could successfully work and how each spec would function. An important part of this design is not only keeping current flavor, but adding addition spec individuality. Also, the new found flexibility of this rune system would allow the Dev team more space for the creation of future abilities and functionality.

Updated: 8-24-14


There is now a new mock Talent Grid to accompany the 6 Death Rune design:

Page1: (T56 - T90) http://mop-talent-grid-maker.appspot...gridId=4004001

Page2: (T100) http://mop-talent-grid-maker.appspot...gridId=4014001




Blood



1 Rune - Heart Strike - (Single Target Strike) Applies Scarlet Fever - Creates Blood Infusion
1 Rune - Soul Reaper - Creates Blood Infusion
1 Rune - Blood Tap - Renamed Rune Tap
1 Rune - Death & Decay - Shadowfrost Damage
1 Rune - Chains of Agony - New Chains of Ice (Applies Scarlet Fever + Slow)

2 Runes - Death Strike / Death Siphon - Death Siphon would replace/upgrade Death Strike

25 RP - Blood Boil - Spreads Scarlet Fever
25 RP - Death Coil


Scarlet Fever: Disease that deals Shadow damage and also applies Weakened Blows.

Blood Infusion: Each successful Heart Strike or Soul Reaper increases the heal of your next Death Strike / Death Siphon by X%. Effect can stack up to two charges. All charges are consumed by each Death Strike / Death Siphon.


Notes: 2x Heart Strike would deal slightly more damage than 1x Death Strike. Therefore, Heart Strike would be utilized to deal more damage when healing is not needed. This also applies to Soul Reaper. Both HS and SR would apply bonus healing to your next Death Strike to minimize the risk. Blood Boil would now cost RP; This change prevents needed multiple target threat from interfering with survivability. These specific changes would hopefully make Blood much more interesting to play.


Single Target Priority:
1. Apply and maintain Scarlet Fever using Heart Strike
2. Blood Tap if/when needed
3. Death Strike if/when needed
4. Soul Reaper during execute range
5. Heart Strike
6. Blood Boil
7. Free Death & Decay
8. Free Blood Boil

Multiple Target Priority:
1. Death & Decay
2. Apply Scarlet Fever using Heart Strike
3. Spread diseases using Blood Boil
4. Blood Tap if/when needed
5. Death Strike if/when needed
6. Free Blood Boil
7. Heart Strike
8. Blood Boil






Frost



1 Rune - Icy Touch - Applies Frost Fever - Procs Chill of the Grave
1 Rune - Soul Reaper
1 Rune - Death & Decay - Shadowfrost Damage
1 Rune - Chains of Agony - New Chains of Ice (Applies Frost Fever + Slow)

2 Runes - Howling Blast - Applies Frost Fever - Procs Rime - Consumes Rime
2 Runes - Frost Strike - Consumes Chill of the Grave
2 Runes - Death Strike / Death Siphon - Death Siphon would replace/upgrade Death Strike

25 RP - Obliterate - Consumes Killing Machine
25 RP - Death Coil


Chill of the Grave: Icy Touch has a 50% chance to double the damage of your next Frost Strike. Effect stacks up to 3 charges.

Rime: Howling Blast has a chance to cause your next Howling Blast to be free and consume no runes.

Killing Machine: Your autoattacks have a chance to cause your next Obliterate to deal total Frost damage.


Notes: Frost is given new life with new mechanics, creating a well-defined priority. The main idea is to use Icy Touch.....to proc Chill of the Grave.....to empower Frost Strike and only use Frost Strike while it is empowered by Chill of the Grave. Killing Machine is changed to sync up with our Mastery and no longer devalue the Crit stat. Rime is changed to offer some random bonus fun during AoE situations.


Single Target Priority:
1. Apply and maintain Frost Fever using Icy Touch
2. Obliterate w/KM or if about to cap RP
3. Soul Reaper during execute range
4. Frost Strike if 2 runes available w/Rime
5. Icy Touch to proc Rime
6. Obliterate

Multiple Target Priority:
1. Death & Decay
2. Apply and maintain Frost Fever using Howling Blast
3. Obliterate w/KM
4. Soul Reaper during execute range if against less than 4 targets
5. Howling Blast
6. Obliterate






Unholy



1 Rune - Plague Strike - Applies Necrotic Plague
1 Rune - Pestilence - AoE Shadow damage - Extends duration of Necrotic Plague - Spreads Necrotic Plague
1 Rune - Soul Reaper
1 Rune - Death & Decay - Shadowfrost Damage
1 Rune - Chains of Agony - New Chains of Ice (Applies Necrotic Plague + Slow)

2 Runes - Scourge Strike - Creates Shadow Infusion
2 Runes - Death Strike / Death Siphon - Death Siphon would replace/upgrade Death Strike

25 RP - Death Coil - Consumes Sudden Doom


Sudden Doom: Your autoattacks have a chance to cause your next Death Coil to consume no Runic Power.

Shadow Infusion: Scourge Strike creates 1 charge of Shadow Infusion. SI can only be created while the ghoul is not affected by Dark Transformation. Effect stacks up to 5 charges.

Dark Transformation: Activated passively once 5 charges of Shadow Infusion are created.


Notes: Blood uses Scarlet Fever, Frost uses Frost Fever and Unholy being the master of diseases, uses Necrotic Plague. Festering Strike would be removed and Pestilence would take over the mechanic of extending diseases. Scourge Strike would now be used to create Shadow Infusion stacks in order to activate Dark Transformation. DT would activate automatically upon reaching the 5th stack. And the number of stacks would be shown on the icon for Scourge Strike on your hotbar. The gameplay here is to maximize Scourge Strike usage while not letting Necrotic Plague fall off your targets. Also, Necrotic Plague would no longer jump or spread on it's own; It would only be spread by using Pestilence.


Single Target Priority:
1. Apply Necrotic Plague using Plague Strike
2. Maintain diseases using Pestilence
3. Soul Reaper during execute range
4. Scourge Strike if Dark Transformation is not active
5. Death Coil if you are about to cap RP
6. Scourge Strike
7. Death Coil

Multiple Target Priority:
1. Apply Necrotic Plague using Plague Strike
2. Death & Decay
3. Scourge Strike if Dark Transformation is not active
4. Soul Reaper during execute range if against less than 4 targets
5. Pestilence
6. Death Coil





All feedback is welcome.

[Aergwyn]

Oh wow. Really nice work. I don't know how this would play out. That's a thing you need to feel to actually leave detailed feedback here.

I play only Frost and that's the only part I'll talk about and I'm no theorycraft expert either so I'm just gonna say how I feel about this one.

6 Deathrunes. This is hard. Right now I'm keeping always one eye on my runes (yep I'm that bad) so I don't fuck shit up so hard - what I still sometimes do. That would be gone. I don't know how I should feel about this. The hardest resource system would be gone. Well, I think that's good!?

A few good points: Death and Decay would scale with Frost Mastery because of shadowfrost damage. The new Killing Machine would make 2h and DW even out a bit. We have a new spell that we would use most of the time if we have Frost Fever up. But the new Rime feels wrong. Below 25% you have an absolut useless procc. Maybe a %-base damage boost below 25%. It could scale or be a flat boost.

I would definetely try this out if I had the chance to!

[Clash the DK]

Oh wow. Really nice work. I don't know how this would play out. That's a thing you need to feel to actually leave detailed feedback here.

I play only Frost and that's the only part I'll talk about and I'm no theorycraft expert either so I'm just gonna say how I feel about this one.

6 Deathrunes. This is hard. Right now I'm keeping always one eye on my runes (yep I'm that bad) so I don't fuck shit up so hard - what I still sometimes do. That would be gone. I don't know how I should feel about this. The hardest resource system would be gone. Well, I think that's good!?

A few good points: Death and Decay would scale with Frost Mastery because of shadowfrost damage. The new Killing Machine would make 2h and DW even out a bit. We have a new spell that we would use most of the time if we have Frost Fever up. But the new Rime feels wrong. Below 25% you have an absolut useless procc. Maybe a %-base damage boost below 25%. It could scale or be a flat boost.

I would definetely try this out if I had the chance to!

The idea is that the priority changes at 25% of a targets health. At that point, you stop using Death Chill, assuming you are in melee range, and use nothing but Vanquish with your runes, assuming you don't need to apply Frost Fever.

Above 25% should feel like a more fluid and reactionary version of the DW Masterfrost rotation. And then below 25%, things should feel very similar to DW Hastefrost.



EDIT: I do see your point about "useless proc below 25%". Ideally you would be in melee range, but there are still times where you are not and would be using Death Chill below 25%. In that situation, the Rime proc would not be of any use. I have made changes to the design and thanks for the feedback.

[Raikh]

Always sceptical about concrete design ideas. I like the idea of 6 death runes though. I would rather have a system where you have to decide whats best to use and mechanics to go along with that.
Like keeping DoTs up for festerblight and stacking like you said sudden doom for DT.

This might require some additional changes to the feedback loop or something along that though. Even if you have to use all spells there should be some mechanic as a guide. The system is incredibly free which could be irritating as you would need to track certain things atleast for uh to not use some abilities too often/not often enough.

Either doing the wrong number of abilities is too punishing or not punishing enough. There needs to be something which is for micromanagement and some synergy you want to play out. Otherwise the game play is about counting abilities or it is simply too easy because you can't do much wrong-
Currently rune management is in place for that. You can easily screw up for a while leaving the wrong runes orphaned, using too many death runes on FeS and not preparing correctly for burst/AoE leaving you with blood and frost runes in that situation which is obviously bad.

Definetly pro the idea but difficult to do without revamping to some degree.

[ymirsson]

So, combopoints in reverse? Neat ideas, well done write up, but still, as a rogue, i feel robbed

[Challenge]

Its not bad and its a decent write up. I'd like it more if you was more detailed in your "notes" how each spec would fully operate.

Single target, aoe, cleave, procs, executes, priorities, pvp benefits, etc.

Also obviously this would require a few talents changes so please elaborate more and polish it up. Love fan designs.

[Clash the DK]

Thanks for all the positive comments by everyone so far!

Its not bad and its a decent write up. I'd like it more if you was more detailed in your "notes" how each spec would fully operate.

Single target, aoe, cleave, procs, executes, priorities, pvp benefits, etc.

Also obviously this would require a few talents changes so please elaborate more and polish it up. Love fan designs.

I added simple priority lists for each spec. Hopefully I didn't butcher the concept too bad.

[SirHandMan]

One inconsistency I see is in your Frost design, with regards to Icy Touch and Death Chill. One applies frost fever, but that's already done by HB. The other activates a powerful proc. Both cost the same, and both are single target. Why bother with Icy Touch at all if this new spell is probably going to be strictly better as well as having its prime function performed by another strictly better spell?

To my knowledge, no DW frost DK bothers using IT in lieu of HB in PvP if they do not desire to break CC. I certainly don't, but that might just be because I haven't had the misfortune of HB breaking CC, or because I'm bad. Additionally, the likelihood that your target is going to be next to the cc'd target for longer than the duration of frost fever is literally zero, due to the fact that DG has a shorter cooldown (okay, glyphed) than the current duration of FF, AND the fact that no CC in the game lasts that long in PvP.

Also, I'm not sure how I feel about 2 rune abilities falling lower on the priorities than the 1 rune abilities, or...how 1 rune abilities could ever be useful in comparison to 2 rune abilities if you have the option of using both, unless the former put up buffs (or debuffs(diseases)). Taking an example from WW monks, there's no way in hell I would Tiger Palm twice in lieu of a Blackout Kick. I Tiger Palm once every 20 seconds to keep up the ArP, and all of my chi is then channeled into abilities that cost more chi, with Fists of Fury coming in first at 3 chi, Rising Sun Kick at 2 chi, and Blackout Kick if both of those things are on cooldown at 2 chi.

This is a flaw I see most in your unholy design. I would feel better about it if you assigned a moderate cooldown to Scourge Strike, such as 10 seconds, which could then be reduced by Haste.

[Clash the DK]

One inconsistency I see is in your Frost design, with regards to Icy Touch and Death Chill. One applies frost fever, but that's already done by HB. The other activates a powerful proc. Both cost the same, and both are single target. Why bother with Icy Touch at all if this new spell is probably going to be strictly better as well as having its prime function performed by another strictly better spell?

To my knowledge, no DW frost DK bothers using IT in lieu of HB in PvP if they do not desire to break CC. I certainly don't, but that might just be because I haven't had the misfortune of HB breaking CC, or because I'm bad. Additionally, the likelihood that your target is going to be next to the cc'd target for longer than the duration of frost fever is literally zero, due to the fact that DG has a shorter cooldown (okay, glyphed) than the current duration of FF, AND the fact that no CC in the game lasts that long in PvP.

Also, I'm not sure how I feel about 2 rune abilities falling lower on the priorities than the 1 rune abilities, or...how 1 rune abilities could ever be useful in comparison to 2 rune abilities if you have the option of using both, unless the former put up buffs (or debuffs(diseases)). Taking an example from WW monks, there's no way in hell I would Tiger Palm twice in lieu of a Blackout Kick. I Tiger Palm once every 20 seconds to keep up the ArP, and all of my chi is then channeled into abilities that cost more chi, with Fists of Fury coming in first at 3 chi, Rising Sun Kick at 2 chi, and Blackout Kick if both of those things are on cooldown at 2 chi.

This is a flaw I see most in your unholy design. I would feel better about it if you assigned a moderate cooldown to Scourge Strike, such as 10 seconds, which could then be reduced by Haste.

There are times in this game when you just can't AoE. And I'm talking about PvE, not just PvP. Heroic Spirit Kings comes to mind. Icy Touch is used as a backup plan for those situations where you can't AoE. Now, those situations do not pop up that often. And with this specific design, we would not be spamming abilities that apply FF like we do now. It would be a manual decision every 30 seconds. So, whichever ability we would use to put up our FF would have a very small effect on our dps. Therefore......maybe you are right and Chains of Agony should replace Icy Touch when you receive that ability.

For Unholy, imagine different phases. In the first shorter phase, you want to use Festering Strike to proc Death Coil to stack DT faster so that you get your ghoul transformed faster. This phase has the added benefit of extending your diseases significantly. In the next phase, you mainly Scourge Strike. 2xSS would be slightly more damage than 4xFeS + 2xDC. But the benefits you gain from FeS at certain times would outweigh using SS.

[SirHandMan]

There are times in this game when you just can't AoE. And I'm talking about PvE, not just PvP. Heroic Spirit Kings comes to mind. Icy Touch is used as a backup plan for those situations where you can't AoE. Now, those situations do not pop up that often. And with this specific design, we would not be spamming abilities that apply FF like we do now. It would be a manual decision every 30 seconds. So, whichever ability we would use to put up our FF would have a very small effect on our dps. Therefore......maybe you are right and Chains of Agony should replace Icy Touch when you receive that ability.

For Unholy, imagine different phases. In the first shorter phase, you want to use Festering Strike to proc Death Coil to stack DT faster so that you get your ghoul transformed faster. This phase has the added benefit of extending your diseases significantly. In the next phase, you mainly Scourge Strike. 2xSS would be slightly more damage than 4xFeS + 2xDC. But the benefits you gain from FeS at certain times would outweigh using SS.

I didn't know about H Spirit Kings, since I've never tried it.

Ah, I forgot about DT. Silly me. I thought that FeS would only serve to proc Sudden Doom (only free death coils and nothing else), much like OB as DW Frost only serves to proc HB. Since it isn't worth it for the latter, I assumed it would be near the same situation for the former.

[Schizoide]

I do think DKs would work better with simpler resources and more complex abilities, closer to the WW monk model, yes. The odds of this happening are zero for this expansion and pretty low for the next, but keep up the good fight.

[Chickat]

I would be afraid they would just feel like monks, with combo points generated over time, and chi (runic power) gained through the use of spells. Its almost a reverse monk in that sense. Still, I love it, but I would need to play it to see if it feels too similar to another class.

[Schizoide]

I would be afraid they would just feel like monks, with combo points generated over time, and chi (runic power) gained through the use of spells. Its almost a reverse monk in that sense. Still, I love it, but I would need to play it to see if it feels too similar to another class.

Yes, that's exactly how it would work, monks in reverse. I don't see that as a problem.

Fundamentally, I prefer to manage my abilities rather than my resources.

[Clash the DK]

Project Updated

The design for Unholy has been changed. Scourge Strike vs Festering Strike just wasn't working out in this type of system. The new design is a little more straightforward in how the spec should be played.

Also added another charge to Rime. This allows Frost to pool resources to some extent for delayed burst.

[SirHandMan]

I would be afraid they would just feel like monks, with combo points generated over time, and chi (runic power) gained through the use of spells. Its almost a reverse monk in that sense. Still, I love it, but I would need to play it to see if it feels too similar to another class.

Rogues and Kitties operate the exact same way. Spend energy for combo points, stack to 5, spend combo points, repeat. Being reverse Monks is enough of a difference, I think.

[blizziness]

I like your proposed frost changes but I had a thought. Since it's redundant to have two single target ranged frost abilities (death chill and icy touch) just so you can avoid breaking CC it seems to me that HB could be glyphed to change the AoE portion to ignore cc'd targets (similar to the starfall glyph but not quite). I think it's worth giving up a glyph spot for. The only other alternative that comes to mind is to also make death chill apply FF and be done with Icy Touch altogether. Thoughts?

[Deleted]

Some pretty cool ideas there, nice work. No idea how it would play out in real terms, but I'm definitely a fan of emphasising the theme of each spec (like the diseases for example). Unfortunately Blizz seem to be moving in completely the opposite direction, for blood at least.

[Clash the DK]

I do think DKs would work better with simpler resources and more complex abilities, closer to the WW monk model, yes. The odds of this happening are zero for this expansion and pretty low for the next, but keep up the good fight.

Considering the fact that class design is consistently 2-3 years behind, I will have to agree with you. /fistbump nevertheless.

I like your proposed frost changes but I had a thought. Since it's redundant to have two single target ranged frost abilities (death chill and icy touch) just so you can avoid breaking CC it seems to me that HB could be glyphed to change the AoE portion to ignore cc'd targets (similar to the starfall glyph but not quite). I think it's worth giving up a glyph spot for. The only other alternative that comes to mind is to also make death chill apply FF and be done with Icy Touch altogether. Thoughts?

Icy Touch and Death Coil would serve two different purposes. But, I understand what you are saying; We discussed this further up in the thread as well. If the Devs changed Howling Blast so that the secondary damage never broke CC or interfered with certain Boss mechanics, then we would be in the clear. Icy Touch could be removed with no hesitation.

Death Chill can not apply FF in this design. Frost Fever would be Frost's only disease and Death Chill would be used very frequently. So if Death Chill applied FF, disease management would become a totally passive thing. And tracking our disease/s is a fundamental part of playing a DK. So that idea doesn't really work.

Like we discussed earlier in the thread, it might be appropriate that Chains of Agony would replace Icy Touch when you gained that ability. I'm a little undecided in which direction would be best or if it's even something to worry about in the first place.

[Clash the DK]

Project Updated

New idea for Soul Reaper. Details at the bottom of OP.

The design for Death Chill / Rime was simplified. Icy Touch removed. Death Chill now applies FF for single-targets.

Unholy looks and plays more similar to live. The function of Festering Strike is replaced by Pestilence. Scourge Strike creates Shadow Infusion.

[Clash the DK]

Project Updated

Finally figured out the best way to handle the Unholy rotation. Due to the loose constraints of the design, the disease extension mechanic was easily bypassed, causing everything to break down. The answer was to give Unholy Necrotic Plague as their single baseline disease.