Would you like to see a completely over the top raid challenge?

[Deztru]

Like an encounter just like any other, only that it would simply be meant to be unbeatable. And never be a part of progression, maybe a FoS but nothing to profit from in the mean of progression.

I would love for this game to have something completely ridiculous and over the top encounter with extremely unforgiving and painful mechanics, multitudes of phases and it could even be a multiple hours long encounter.


The closest example I can think of is Yiazmat from FFXII, not that difficult but even with the best gear and tactic it was easily 2 hours long.

[Deja Thoris]

Not completely OTT but I'd like to see a final boss last a month or two because the gear / tactic req's were too strict to realistically kill in in week 2/3.

[Manhands]

Heroic LK with no buff at-level.

1 guild did it.

But it wasn't an achieve and so most guilds didn't even have a reason to try for it. To answer your question, yes, I wish they had made it a Feat of Strength.

[Deztru]

Not completely OTT but I'd like to see a final boss last a month or two because the gear / tactic req's were too strict to realistically kill in in week 2/3.

But that would be a part of the progression then, and attracting nerfs like a madman.

Something OTT and out of progression, a legacy.

[Deleted]

Heroic LK with no buff at-level.

1 guild did it.

But it wasn't an achieve and so most guilds didn't even have a reason to try for it. To answer your question, yes, I wish they had made it a Feat of Strength.

A quick search on Youtube says that more than one guild did it.

Anyway, sure that could be fun, but I don't know if it is worth the development time. Who gains anything here if the boss is unbeatable? And yeah I agree, it can't be part of the natural progression.

[Deleted]

Every fight should have Hexos mechanics from now on. Along with all the other stuff happening.

[Deztru]

A quick search on Youtube says that more than one guild did it.

Anyway, sure that could be fun, but I don't know if it is worth the development time. Who gains anything here if the boss is unbeatable? And yeah I agree, it can't be part of the natural progression.

The line between being farmed for FoS and unbeatable is thin, IMO it would be good for the game, there hasn't been anything left unbeaten in a long time.

[Kaleredar]

I don't know why they did away with "non-meta" raid achievements like Ulduar had.

There should have been an achievement for downing Garrosh without ever killing an Iron Star engineer, or one for never getting the titan buff on Sha, etc, etc. (and even that last one doesn't sound too hard)

Fun stuff like that.

[fixx]

The only way to make boss last for months even from best guilds would be overtuning it so high that the gear required isn't even in the game yet. Would be fairly easy since we saw DPS numbers quadruple during MoP, to design a boss that requires two tiers higher gear than currently available.

And it would be incredibly stupid to make something literally unkillable, just waiting for enough time to pass for the gear to catch up with the encounter's numbers. At that point it's not a question of skill or difficulty anymore, but dumb gating mechanic.

[Denkou]

See: C'thun, M'uru. C'thun was virtually impossible pre-nerf and M'uru was so difficulty that only a few guilds defeated it before it was nerfed.

[Kaleredar]

See: C'thun, M'uru. C'thun was virtually impossible pre-nerf and M'uru was so difficulty that only a few guilds defeated it before it was nerfed.

C'thun of yore was a ridiculously buggy (no pun intended) fight. That was a big part of it.

[klaps_05]

Cthun and Muru were not unbeatable - they were bugged. the problem with making an "unbeatable" boss is that there is an incredible different between tier 1 guilds and the rest of the world. it doesnt matter how hard a boss is - be it timing, mechanics, etc - you can just have one of the officers write an addon and it will take no more than 5-10 pulls for that issue to be done.

this is why you will never have an unbeaten boss - tier 1 guilds are 99% veterans who know exactly how to beat an encounter and it may take 300 pulls, but it will be done in a couple weeks, bar gear requirements(which can also be circumvented by just class stacking).

finally, you cant have an unbeatable boss because you will always have the majority of casual pvers whine they cant have it, and blizzard is following a policy of "everything for everyone..eventually".

[Kaleredar]

I fail to see how that would be "good for the game" as one poster mentioned. Literally 99.99% would just give up. Especially when you can read logs over weeks of fighting and deduct he IS impossible up to a certain gear level. Then 100% would give up until they have the gear. A gear check boss. How novel.

That's part of it that people fail to realize.

The only real way I foresee to "properly introduce" a boss that's incredibly difficult yet isn't a straight gear check is to make it have incredibly unpredictable encounter mechanics that can compound upon one another. Lots of fights (Maloriak, Yor'shaj, Thok) have "random" elements to them, but they're largely just "X happens, so do Y, and then go back to normal." There's no real "risk assessment" involved.

But then you get people complaining about "OMG RNG screwed us!"

[Deleted]

Heroic LK with no buff at-level.

1 guild did it.

But it wasn't an achieve and so most guilds didn't even have a reason to try for it. To answer your question, yes, I wish they had made it a Feat of Strength.

The main reason for that was that you only got 50 attempts per week. I'm sure if LK had limitless attempts he would have died a lot sooner, and without the buff.

[cFortyfive]

Don't know seems pretty easy to make an incredibly hard encounter by just stacking enough super unforgiving mechanics even if it wasn't entirely random. Obviously it would be unbeatable for anyone but maybe the top 5.

[Deleted]

Yogg+0.

/10char

[Aeluron Lightsong]

How about.... for Garrosh.


Nobody dies on the raid fight. Two versions. Normal and Heroic for Alliance and Horde.


Basically Alliance version

"We Stand as One." For Alliance. "Horde is family" For Horde.


Basically everyone stays alive for the whole fight. One person dies, and you fail. Battle rezzes don't count.

[Totaltotemic]

How about.... for Garrosh.


Nobody dies on the raid fight. Two versions. Normal and Heroic for Alliance and Horde.


Basically Alliance version

"We Stand as One." For Alliance. "Horde is family" For Horde.


Basically everyone stays alive for the whole fight. One person dies, and you fail. Battle rezzes don't count.

That's ridiculously simple because there is almost nothing in the Garrosh fight that would kill an individual person. The thing that makes the fight hard is that one mistake usually kills everyone, not just the person that screwed up.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

That's ridiculously simple because there is almost nothing in the Garrosh fight that would kill an individual person. The thing that makes the fight hard is that one mistake usually kills everyone, not just the person that screwed up.

I did say it can be done on normal and heroic. Also it's better then having nothing. It's obviously too late to put this in but it would of been decent to do.


Besides I was starting out slow.

[Deleted]

Like an encounter just like any other, only that it would simply be meant to be unbeatable. And never be a part of progression, maybe a FoS but nothing to profit from in the mean of progression.

I would love for this game to have something completely ridiculous and over the top encounter with extremely unforgiving and painful mechanics, multitudes of phases and it could even be a multiple hours long encounter.


The closest example I can think of is Yiazmat from FFXII, not that difficult but even with the best gear and tactic it was easily 2 hours long.

WoW a multiple hours long encounter, WoW.
Encounters in WoW require ability/room ideas, development time, coding, tuning, art&graphics, QA and constant checks on live progression@ top guilds and you want an hour long impossible encounter?

As it so happens however, there was an encounter that was over the top this tier.

Paragon of the Klaxxi 25 was unkillable, over the top and without a doubt impossible in its first incarnation, despite it being tested on the PTR, despite Blizzard internal tests, despite weeks to flush out all the bugs(pun intended). To give you a few highlights
-->the paragons sometimes meleed healers from the air
-->the locust(guy who jumps/whirls around) had a 600k damage aura when he leaped to/from his amber throwing position that just destroyed the melee
-->the multishot from the hunter paragon and the mutate from the dissector would just 1 shot someone if he got hit by both abilities(without even taking mutate splash into account)
-->the dissector guy would just kill himself if u reflected the mutate.
-->the parasite's feed would just kill someone with invisible damage
-->the paragon's buff stacked way more potently
And this is just the first 4 paragons.