Female Draenei Model: Old vs. New

[Phyrexias]

Yeah I definitely think the 6.1 model looks MUCH better with the 6.0 textures.

[Pondara]

Yeah I definitely think the 6.1 model looks MUCH better with the 6.0 textures.

Seriously. I didn't even dislike the 6.0 faces, i still think they look more HD than the 6.1 faces, but if they at least gave us the old textures back, i'd at least be happy.

[Nami]

About the textures... I just today saw that defender Illona had these purple lips which disappeared with 6.1 (and I liked them). So I went to the barbershop to confirm that they were gone and they were.

I then realized that all the Draenei female NPC's use the new model but the old textures. You can tell by the texturing of the lower eyelids, their purplish lips and eyebrow shapes. I think it looks quite nice and it works with the new face model. Especially the lower eyelids and the less dark outlining of the eyes look better if you ask me.

-snip-

I'm sorry if this has already been posted but I don't recall anyone else talking about it :P

That... actually looks pretty good. I looked down at your screenshots before reading your post and was wondering why those models looked different even though they were clearly from 6.1 because of the eye shape. Is there any NPC that uses the darkest skin color that you know of? I'd like to see what they look like with the 6.0 textures.

[Pondara]

Yes, I disagree quite heartily. I don't think either skin looked all that great, especially the darker skin tones. I find it funny that someone linked this:

...talking about how great they looked. That looks mottled, sickly, and just plain low quality. It doesn't look much better in 6.1, but it just looks plain bad. How can anyone WANT to play that?

That said, I was replaying the WOD starter experience on a 90 alt, and thought this was a funny comparison. The belf stealth face versus the draenei one. One says calm, calculated concentration... the other not so much. Guess which is which. :P

Lol, makes me wish draenei had the team that did bloodelves, but BE are horde so they obviously got the A team.

[Alkizon]

One more time, the texture does not change.
Designers cleaned faces - removed "painted" shadows on them, and it is great, because the purer face can get more appropriate and actual shadows appear on them in different lighting. If you want the "old" texture, then you can open your desired skin and in the place where it was cheekbone add dark purple paint, close, and understand that you have not changed the quality of the textures but make "dirty" color returned. (And this color is unhealthy and it talking about malnutrition and the angularity of the skull of the character, but it is not really so).
Only what they overdid is - with shadows under the eyes and changing colors depending on some skin types (for example, for white skin it's good - the same dependence as it was in tbc - gray/dark-gray). Ie they should make clean area around the eyes and it will be good: shadows on the face will depend on the lighting in the game, and not depend on the artist work. Why you can't understand the differences between real shadows and penciled? (like lines under females buttocks - it's looks so ugly and unrealistic for some races)

ps. I think they could just add these "dirty" color as an additional individual customization options, and all would have been happy, but didn't result in compliance with the old skin color. But they were told that it would be after the models will be ready ... maybe in 2-3 years (don't forget, I'm suffering just like you, but for other reasons http://i.imgur.com/PpStOdc,D1sBO1J,183dWnS It is a pity that that player didn't write anything more on the official forum, maybe lok had any suggestions for faces. It isn't clear if he/she continue playing. That old message was looked a bit pessimistic.)

[Phyrexias]

Designers cleaned faces - removed "painted" shadows on them

They also "cleaned" (lol) the body texture which actually makes them look far less detailed even in ideal lighting because the WoW models do not have a significantly high poly count with intricate details carved into the face or body to create and cast shadows. Most body details such as muscle definition or facial details such as cheek bones are shown solely by shading on the texture to give the appearance of a shape\depth change.

The removal of most if not all of the detail and shading on the textures also completely removed the minor definition of the rib cage and reduced the prominence of the ab muscles. Those details are not sculpted on the model itself. They have no form and were given the look of such only by the actual artwork on the texture and now that's reduced or gone completely.

I'd much rather have an actual HD model over one that is only a very marginal improvement(or an actual downgrade depending on which face\skin you use) than the one in BC.

Regardless of whether or not all these changes brought the models closer to the BC version, almost everything that was done in 6.1 pushed the models backwards in terms of quality, from the reduced shading and definition on the textures, to the discolorations around the eyes\mouth(and the darkest skin's sunken eyes due to overshading), to the weird eye shape with sharp, jagged edges that look awful compared to the smooth edges that the 6.0 eyes had.

The BC models eyes and face texture look more HD than the 6.1 version of the face and skin I use after the patch ffs. That should just not even be possible.

[Alkizon]

Because it was a different shape of the skull. Eye, for example, positioned at an angle to the direction "forward", and now they are convex and perpendicular to the direction (i don't see anything wrong with them to be a bit tilted but keep the old form). The ribs and the remaining shadows on the body for non HD settings turn into bruises, you should also keep in mind this moment. I prefer clean skin, and no shade. Model looks more alive - in the body, but not skinny with protruding ribs and other bones, as if starved month. The draenei_f were curvaceous, and now i'm scared to look at them.( https://trishatrixiedesigns.files.wo...nny-models.jpg )
>> http://www.girlswithmuscle.com/image.../928352590.jpg
>> http://celebmafia.com/wp-content/upl...une-2014_2.jpg
or something like that.. >> http://wallpampers.ru/pictures/7633/...20Atkinson.JPG
And about draenei males - faces too muscular:
http://www.moviestarspicture.com/pho...ovies-list.jpg
they don't need such s*y "painted" shadows on them

PS. In addition, they are not cleaned out the entire skin, you're wrong - a lot of "dirty" places left on the body. I do not think that they are "not needed", but they should be accurate and should be kept to a minimum.

[Phyrexias]

PS. In addition, they are not cleaned out the entire skin, you're wrong - a lot of "dirty" places left on the body.

I never said they got rid of all the shadows, but if they DID remove every bit of shading and detail on the texture there would be no definition left and it would be a downgrade considering even the BC model had details and shading drawn on the texture. Like I said before the models don't have enough detail and definition sculpted on them to cast or create any significant shadows by themselves just with in-game lights.

I'm personally okay with the removal of the ribcage definition because it didn't look right to me as typically the ribcage being so prominent means you have both low body fat and muscle, but it alarms me that they chose to actually remove or diminish details just to try and make the model look more like the original lower res texture. Draenei already had far less detailed and lower res textures than Orcs, Trolls, Belves, etc. and they're actually REMOVING more details and adding discolorations and crappy shading to the eyes\mouth? Just doesn't make any sense to me.

If they keep lowering the quality of the new model to try and get it to look like the original(or in some cases, like something else entirely) rather than preserving or increasing the level of detail and quality of the texture and model while making changes then it's just going to be the old model with a slightly higher poly count, less eye shape options\variation, and god awful facial expressions and at that point I will just disable the "HD" models because their negatives will outweigh their positives.

[Alkizon]

It does not explain why it is necessary to change the "imaginary" shape of the skull. Use the shadows only to emphasize the quality of the texture even where it is not required - this is a very stupid decision. Everything should be in reasonable aisles.
(literally, you are asked to draw them all fatty cheekbones, 1-2 faces were really with cheekbones, but not all the same, thus changing the face of the original?) They just need more responsible approach to the alignment of the old / new.
But this does not prove that the resolution is lower, only that face closer to the original.
(in short: something that is not painted - doesn't mean that it cannot be painted)

PS. What you wrote only proves that in fact the new models - s*s and the number of polygons in the texture does not save them from this simple fact (so I certainly agree with you in this moment )
>>That is, if you make the old models (without changing any movements/forms/posture/colors/emotions) with better texture, they will be many times better looking than the new horror that we received.

[Odile]

Is there any NPC that uses the darkest skin color that you know of? I'd like to see they look like with the 6.0 textures.

This one does:



They even still have the blue eyes. But I have to say on the darkest skin color it kinda looks like they have been crying a lot

I prefer it on the lighter skin colors, because the less dark outlining makes the crooked eyelid shape a lot less obvious.



I mean I still prefer the 6.1 version but they can certainly be improved!

[Pondara]

I never said they got rid of all the shadows, but if they DID remove every bit of shading and detail on the texture there would be no definition left and it would be a downgrade considering even the BC model had details and shading drawn on the texture. Like I said before the models don't have enough detail and definition sculpted on them to cast or create any significant shadows by themselves just with in-game lights.

I'm personally okay with the removal of the ribcage definition because it didn't look right to me as typically the ribcage being so prominent means you have both low body fat and muscle, but it alarms me that they chose to actually remove or diminish details just to try and make the model look more like the original lower res texture. Draenei already had far less detailed and lower res textures than Orcs, Trolls, Belves, etc. and they're actually REMOVING more details and adding discolorations and crappy shading to the eyes\mouth? Just doesn't make any sense to me.

If they keep lowering the quality of the new model to try and get it to look like the original(or in some cases, like something else entirely) rather than preserving or increasing the level of detail and quality of the texture and model while making changes then it's just going to be the old model with a slightly higher poly count, less eye shape options\variation, and god awful facial expressions and at that point I will just disable the "HD" models because their negatives will outweigh their positives.

This is what I have been thinking, they seem to want to replicate the old models so closely that they are actually degrading the HD ones. to the point that they are keeping the flaws and things that the old model was not good with.

I actually almost think they just took the old face textures and put them on the new models and touched them up a bit to get the 6.1 face texture. Why else would they have made the eyebrows as terrible looking as they are?

To me, 6.1 was a step back in all aspects, texture and model.

Funny thing is Yrel didn't change at all so she just looks totally different from all other draenei now, and NPCs kept their old textures so now our race is just all over the place.

[Nami]

Most body details such as muscle definition or facial details such as cheek bones are shown solely by shading on the texture to give the appearance of a shape\depth change.

Do you know if WoW models use a bump/normal map or are all the details in the diffuse map?

This one does:



They even still have the blue eyes. But I have to say on the darkest skin color it kinda looks like they have been crying a lot

Thanks! Yeah, it still looks kinda weird with the darkest skin but at least it doesn't look like her cheekbones are broken, lol.

Funny thing is Yrel didn't change at all so she just looks totally different from all other draenei now, and NPCs kept their old textures so now our race is just all over the place.

Really? I was actually wondering what Yrel looked like now but I never went to check. That's really stupid, but I guess she has the unique model they wanted now? lol

Actually... /tinfoil hat

[Awbee]

Honestly, I don't think 6.1 models with 6.0 textures would be that much of an improvement. Maybe a tad bit better, but still crappy. They look so totally dead inside.

[Phyrexias]

Honestly, I don't think 6.1 models with 6.0 textures would be that much of an improvement. Maybe a tad bit better, but still crappy. They look so totally dead inside.

I still think they look better than just the 6.1 models w/ 6.1 textures, but yeah honestly I'd rather just have the option to use the 6.0 faces with glowing eyes if they aren't going to make any more significant changes to the 6.1 model/textures.

I liked a few of the 6.1 face shape changes such as making the chin less pointy and the noses a bit smaller, but we obviously can't pick and choose each little thing we like rofl. If it's one or the other then I'd definitely rather have the 6.0 faces\textures back.

This is what I have been thinking, they seem to want to replicate the old models so closely that they are actually degrading the HD ones. to the point that they are keeping the flaws and things that the old model was not good with.

While also keeping the things that were worse on the new models such as the more derpy and goofy expressions and the fact the eye shape doesn't change for each face option like it did for the original faces that were painted on. :\

Do you know if WoW models use a bump/normal map or are all the details in the diffuse map?

The original models did not have bump maps, no idea if the new ones do or not as I haven't tried to edit them or their textures yet, but I'm assuming they do not.

I'd be interested to know for sure though.

[Deleted]

Funny thing is Yrel didn't change at all so she just looks totally different from all other draenei now, and NPCs kept their old textures so now our race is just all over the place.

These are pictures I took with Yrel on the PTR, she has the new eyes (with eyeglow) and old textures like the other NPCs I think. I haven't gone to see her on live, so I don't know if this has changed then?



Don't ask what that second one is about lol XD

[Alkizon]

This is a different faces from a set of customization, but I like right face more (it is only a little bit dark, but overall good - normal nose, face is underlined and strict).
Whatever.

The simplest and most logical solution (but at the same time and the most cunning), which they could now use - is to spend 1-2 months to revamp the old models. And It will be real revamp: without changing anything and everything (the same skeleton, the same pose, same shape/size (ie - the same oval curvature of the spine and which was at the same physiology same silhouette of the torso, which was in old models (the C shape) http://i.imgur.com/PpStOdc.png - it's not so unrealistic as you think 1+2, but I still believe that they absolutely do not need a human spine, it was unique and thus memorable), without unnecessary emotions, without changing movements, without changing any basic colors, without changing the bindings of things to the body, without changing their interaction with the world), but with a new texture and rounded 1 or 2 corners in old models.
Firstly it would be very surprised and pleasantly, and secondly - they will hit several relevant objectives with one this bullet:
1) would silenced those who said that they didn't create anything new without destroying the old;
2) would refute the phrase about their indifference to customers, thereby restoring depleted lately reputation (and it's worth it);
3) would have unleashed their hands with new models already changing them without reference to the old, and resulting revamp would equate in rights with new models;
4) (well, also such a small thing) have pleased some players like me who recently played more reluctantly than enjoy, as well as the opportunity to return some people who left the game for the time since pre-patch.
Older models will use by weak PC, people who like old models would get their "revamp" that they had been waiting, and the new models would be completely new models without regard to the old.

I have starting smile even only from thought of as it all will be unexpected and original, and even want wrote them to tweeter, but the thing... i don't have any twitter account
Stupidity of course: have an official forum for the review, but use processing of proposals only through the twitter...

It's a pity that they do either read this forum

[Calith-]

Do you know if WoW models use a bump/normal map or are all the details in the diffuse map?

They don't, all the details are in the diffuse.

[Pondara]

These are pictures I took with Yrel on the PTR, she has the new eyes (with eyeglow) and old textures like the other NPCs I think. I haven't gone to see her on live, so I don't know if this has changed then?


Don't ask what that second one is about lol XD

Apparently it's just the cut-scenes she didn't change in than.

[Deleted]

Apparently it's just the cut-scenes she didn't change in than.

No, they won't redo the cinematics to reflect the model changes.

[Nami]

They don't, all the details are in the diffuse.

Good to know! Thanks