Fast-food workers, "We Are Worth More!"

[Twotonsteak]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5623910.html

Short:
At a convention in Chicago fast-food workers from across the country compared their struggle (for $15/hour) to the civil rights movement. They voted to "escalate" their fight to civil disobedience. (What, exactly, are strikes considered?) They also unveiled new shirts with slogans...one saying "Fight For $15" and the other saying "We Are Worth More."

The convention, shirts, and most of the support has been funded by Unions.

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Personal Opinion:

Let's take the emotional appeal out of this and consider it logically.

1. If a fast-food worker is "worth more," then wouldn't they have the skill-set needed to get a better job?

2. And how many fast-food workers are single-parent adults? Because minors are restricted in the work they can do. And, really, if you aren't even allowed to work most of the equipment then you are NOT worth more.

3. All businesses have "overhead." This debate applies directly to something called "labor costs." Businesses have a set amount of money to use for their labor costs. If you more than double the Federal minimum wage people WILL lose their jobs. Raising the minimum wage does not magically raise the amount of money available to cover labor costs.

4. Why go to college? Why bother in High School? Just put in the minimum amount of work, barely skate by, and don't worry...because you can work for fast-food and make a "livable wage." Remember that the only job requirements needed to work in fast food is that you have hands and half of a brain. Sure, some might have an age restriction of 18...again, because of Federal regulations on what minors can and can't do. But we're not talking about overly difficult work to get.

5. Finally...if we're going to raise the minimum wage, money paid to people with the lowest possible skill-set, to $15/hour, what will we pay skilled laborers? What will the electricians, plumbers, ect be making? Obviously if we decide that someone with no marketable skills is "worth more," then aren't the people who learned valuable skills worth more as well?

[RoryTee]

$15 dollars an hour sounds a bit high for a job that requires no experience or skills , both of these things can be picked up pretty fast in an entry level fast food job.

Why do fast food workers deserve 15 an hour but others don't?

[Twotonsteak]

$15 dollars an hour sounds a bit high for a job that requires no experience or skills , both of these things can be picked up pretty fast in an entry level fast food job.

Why do fast food workers deserve 15 an hour but others don't?

The most common argument in favor of such a drastic raise is that single-parents and adults can't survive on the current minimum wage.

To be fair...that's accurate. The current minimum wage is $7.25/hour and it is NOT enough for someone to live on.

The debate, however, has been ruled by emotional sentiment. (Like most other debates in the US.) People in favor of the raise constantly talk about the "poor single mother" and refer to the opposition as being cruel or greedy. People oppose to the raise complain about the cost it would inflict on the business.

[Deleted]

a lot of the Mcdonalds here now have these little computers at the door where you can order, its much easier, quicker and less stressful than trying to order at the counter. still needs a person to cook the food for now, but the servers at the counter are easily replacable by machines.

[Naxere]

a lot of the Mcdonalds here now have these little computers at the door where you can order, its much easier, quicker and less stressful than trying to order at the counter. still needs a person to cook the food for now, but the servers at the counter are easily replacable by machines.

Which I'd imagine more fast-food places would implement if all of the sudden their labor costs doubled and it became more economical to replace workers with machinery.

[oxymoronic]

To be fair...that's accurate. The current minimum wage is $7.25/hour and it is NOT enough for someone to live on.

to be fair, states where the min wage needs to be higher it is... example, nevada it is $8.25/hr

[Twotonsteak]

to be fair, states where the min wage needs to be higher it is... example, nevada it is $8.25/hr

I was referring to the Federal Minimum wage...which is $7.25/hour. If I took the time to break down the minimum wage by city (as some cities have higher wages than their states)...well...I don't have THAT much time.

Point being that very few locations pay more than $9/hour minimum...and none (that I know of) pay $15.

[RoryTee]

Which I'd imagine more fast-food places would implement if all of the sudden their labor costs doubled and it became more economical to replace workers with machinery.

My local big supermarket has already gone pretty much all self service , The future is neigh! (Fuck self service in supermarkets)

[Primernova]

It's a job that feeds billions of people a day. It's a job that breaks the backs of the workers. It's a job that is not just for the 14-18yo crowd anymore.

Them having lots of more money, could revitalize the western economy. Factory jobs, that required much less skill and paid $40 an hour in the past, are, "Not coming back."

I'm fine with giving the people of this world, that actually do something, money.

[Xeones]

I can't say I fully agree with all they've said. But minimum wage isn't livable and it needs to be boosted for everyone. If these guys are going to take matters into their own hands and strike for a raise, more power to them. That will probably get results faster than our nonfunctional congress thanks to the house.

- - - Updated - - -

My local big supermarket has already gone pretty much all self service , The future is neigh! (Fuck self service in supermarkets)

If a supermarket I go to ever went full self service that is the day I stop going there.

[derpkitteh]

really, any member of the working class should be paid more than people at the top. they do the work, they should reap the rewards.

a person working their self to death shouldn't have to do it just to get enough to survive. it should be enough to live comfortably when they are home.

[Attackrabbit]

My local big supermarket has already gone pretty much all self service , The future is neigh! (Fuck self service in supermarkets)

Fuck the self service machines with a JCB :/ Once again went to use them the other day as I was just getting 2 bottles of water and a multipack of crisps.....self service machine fails to account for the 2 for 1 offer on the water so I have to get an assistant over to sort that out then it claims I have unverified items in the bagging area, call the assistant again to sort that and finally manage to pay and leave the store. Would of been at least twice as quick to just queue in a normal 1 basket only checkout lane :/ One day I will learn though and refuse to use the bloody things

[Deleted]

to be fair, states where the min wage needs to be higher it is... example, nevada it is $8.25/hr

In nature, weak animals that can't find food for them selves and survive die. Evolution at work. Unskilled people don't get money, they will starve, human genome improved, humanity get better. Problem solved. We can't support all those retards, unskilled bums and let them have more kids. That is devolution. We'll end up dead if we're to continue this trend.

[RoryTee]

Fuck the self service machines with a JCB :/ Once again went to use them the other day as I was just getting 2 bottles of water and a multipack of crisps.....self service machine fails to account for the 2 for 1 offer on the water so I have to get an assistant over to sort that out then it claims I have unverified items in the bagging area, call the assistant again to sort that and finally manage to pay and leave the store. Would of been at least twice as quick to just queue in a normal 1 basket only checkout lane :/ One day I will learn though and refuse to use the bloody things

I feel sorry for the people who have to work on them.

*UNRECOGNISED ITEM IN BAGGING AREA PLEASE TRY AGAIN*

*UNRECOGNISED ITEM IN BAGGING AREA PLEASE TRY AGAIN*

*UNRECOGNISED ITEM IN BAGGING AREA PLEASE TRY AGAIN*

*PLEASE WAIT FOR ASSISTANCE*

*UNRECOGNISED ITEM IN BAGGING AREA PLEASE TRY AGAIN*



I'm getting flashbacks now , I second your motion of getting them fucked with a JCB.

[Primernova]

In nature, weak animals that can't find food for them selves and survive die. Evolution at work. Unskilled people don't get money, they will starve, human genome improved, humanity get better. Problem solved. We can't support all those retards, unskilled bums and let them have more kids. That is devolution. We'll end up dead if we're to continue this trend.

In civilization, currently, the 'unskilled' do all the work and the 'strong' don't do shit but live off daddy's money.

Fuck a caste system. That's been done, and it's shit every time.

[Varabently]

My main problem with their argument is similar to your number 5. I know a lot of jobs start in the 10-12$ range, so are they "worth" $15 too? I would say if you're flipping burgers and you're worth $15, then someone working in a call center or whatever other millions of jobs making money in that range are worth it too.

There's nothing special about fast food workers that they would be worth more. My wife worked in a lab at a big university, doing research on neuroscience and made $12.50 per hour. I'd say she was worth more than a fast food worker.

That being said, I think the minimum wage either needs to be done away with completely, or made to change with inflation (retroactively). Otherwise, what's the point? Fast food workers aren't worth less now than they were 30 years ago (adjusted for inflation), but we are paying them less. So if there is some arbitrary minimum wage that we feel is necessary, then presumably that standard of living should be adjusted as the average standard of living changes. And yes that would mean the min wage would go down if inflation went down.

[Dezerte]

1. If a fast-food worker is "worth more," then wouldn't they have the skill-set needed to get a better job?

If they can succeed in putting pressure on their employers, using strikes and what not, the employers would most likely increase wages (and other things) in order to retain that workforce.

2. And how many fast-food workers are single-parent adults? Because minors are restricted in the work they can do. And, really, if you aren't even allowed to work most of the equipment then you are NOT worth more.

Worth is determined by demand, do keep in mind that this is their worth of their labor as deemed by others. Every human being deserves to live comfortably.

3. All businesses have "overhead." This debate applies directly to something called "labor costs." Businesses have a set amount of money to use for their labor costs. If you more than double the Federal minimum wage people WILL lose their jobs. Raising the minimum wage does not magically raise the amount of money available to cover labor costs.

Raise minimum wage while also reducing the top-end (e.g. CEO's, etc) is one solution. Nobody expects the money to come out of thin air, that doesn't happen - they need to cut costs on other areas. And because poor people spend their money more efficiently (i.e. they spend a higher % of their income, stimulating the economy) it is very likely that the economic growth would increase as well.

4. Why go to college? Why bother in High School? Just put in the minimum amount of work, barely skate by, and don't worry...because you can work for fast-food and make a "livable wage." Remember that the only job requirements needed to work in fast food is that you have hands and half of a brain. Sure, some might have an age restriction of 18...again, because of Federal regulations on what minors can and can't do. But we're not talking about overly difficult work to get.

Everyone deserves a comfortable life, that is the moral high-ground. There's also a great benefit to society if more people are happy - more happy people leads to less crime and higher safety for everyone else.

Then there's the fact that most (if not all) people want to contribute to society, to feel proud, that's why people sometimes/often take the low-paid jobs because they love their profession. And we want people who are passionate to work with what they are passionate about. Our current educational systems aren't yet modernized for this - many students and what not fall through the cracks, eventually ending up as drug addicts or thieves.

5. Finally...if we're going to raise the minimum wage, money paid to people with the lowest possible skill-set, to $15/hour, what will we pay skilled laborers? What will the electricians, plumbers, ect be making? Obviously if we decide that someone with no marketable skills is "worth more," then aren't the people who learned valuable skills worth more as well?

They might see an raise as well, though not as by much. The income inequality needs to be more equal, but not so much that it completely equalizes income - there will still be a need for a monetary incentive, what is up for discussion is how big this incentive, and how in-proportional to other positions it needs to be.

[Varabently]

In nature, weak animals that can't find food for them selves and survive die. Evolution at work. Unskilled people don't get money, they will starve, human genome improved, humanity get better. Problem solved. We can't support all those retards, unskilled bums and let them have more kids. That is devolution. We'll end up dead if we're to continue this trend.

The problem with this evolution response is that we don't let evolution do it's thing (or more accurately, natural selection) in any other parts of our lives. Do we let sick or premature babies die because they aren't "fit?" Of course not. Do we let disabled or mentally-handicapped people die in the streets? Not as a rule, though I'm sure it does happen.

By your logic, we should let everyone fend for themselves. No hospitals, if you get sick, let nature take its course. Got murdered or stolen from? Sorry about your luck, but that fit guy who stole your stuff is clearly better at this than you, so he "deserves" your stuff.

See what I mean? Does any of this stuff seem OK to you? It shouldn't, but in a survival of the fittest society, that's what would happen. And maybe from a evolutionary standpoint, that makes sense, but from our current view, it's pretty terrible.

[Deleted]

In civilization, currently, the 'unskilled' do all the work and the 'strong' don't do shit but live off daddy's money.

Fuck a caste system. That's been done, and it's shit every time.

Well if they are truly unskilled, they wouldn't be able to do any job. I don't consider those lazy ass idiots living off rich parents as strong, i consider them unskilled burden of society.

[Krommm]

$10 is probably fine, $15 starts to make other midrange professions feel like "well, I can quit and get paid as much as fast food workers". Regardless, people just end up in endless debt on minimum wage which is really silly.