Skyreach Dungeon, Mob Tagging Rules, Blue Posts, EU Connected Realms, Finalboss #51

[chaud]

Critical Hit Playing Reaper of Souls, Starter Crafted Demon Hunter, Blizzard Service Awards Updated

Plague Quarter Rewards, Deck Spotlight: TheChiv's Naxxadin, Plague Quarter Countdown

Garden of Terror Battleground Preview & Discussion, Town Hall #23

Warlords of Draenor - Skyreach
Now that the new Arakkoa model is in, the Skyreach dungeon in Spires of Arak is open!

Mob Tagging Rules and Gameplay

There's no question that when spawning or quest objectives are not handled properly on our side, the tap system can create negative and anti-social experiences, wherein seeing players of your own faction nearby becomes a nuisance. We very much want to limit and rectify those situations. The most helpful thing you can do in that regard during beta is to bring to our attention specific quests or areas in which you felt competition for spawns was overly detrimental to your experience. We have a number of ways of fixing those problems, ranging from simply adding additional spawns, to dynamic spawn thresholds that ramp up density as player density increases, to making specific targets open tap.

The main reason we don't embrace a fully open-tap world is that we feel that those mechanics are asocial. To be fair, that is certainly better than antisocial - no question there, and antisocial experiences usually reflect spawning and mechanics that we need to adjust. However, while a world in which everyone runs around damaging things a few times (or however much is needed to qualify for credit) may be one in which you don't feel bad about other players being around, at some point it also makes those players nearly indistinguishable from NPCs or bots with decent AI. You don't need to talk, or ask if someone has room in their group or would like to join yours. You just attack a few times, and then move on.

On the other hand, mob tagging rules inherently reward and encourage social gameplay. Even in solo areas like daily quest hubs in Mists, we'd commonly see transient pickup groups form for the sake of efficiency, and stick together through that hub or maybe even another ("hey, anyone up for Klaxxi after this?"). But once again, it's incumbent upon us to make sure that we avoid situations where that is outweighed by negatives like competing for underspawned quest targets or objects.

Philosophically, for a while now, we've made sure that any time multiple players are sent to kill a single specific target that has a respawn timer (be it named quest boss, world boss, or an event like the Battlefield: Barrens commanders in patch 5.3), the mob is open to credit for all. We're certainly open to extending that treatment where it makes sense, and where it serves to improve the overall experience. But I wouldn't expect a wholesale overhaul of our tap mechanics in the near future.

Blue Posts

Warlords of Draenor Theorycraft Discussion
My theory is that for each target in the area of effect of these spells, the healing done to each target is equal to the base healing on 1-6 targets, multiplied by 6, and then divided by the number of targets within some clump check (I don't have an idea of how it does this.) This is consistent with what I saw before (in case 3 above, some dummies treated me as part of their clump number, and some didn't.)
Warning, super techy theorycrafting incoming. You do *not* need to understand any of this to use these spells effectively. This info is primarily for theorycrafters.

Yes. This is something we've mentioned a few times, but I don't know if has ever been fully detailed. Traditional AoE capping works by counting the number of targets hit, and dividing the capped damage amongst them. However, there are four spells for whom that logic does not work: Chi Burst, Chi Torpedo, Divine Star, Halo.

They all heal targets in an area, but that area moves (usually quite quickly, but still). If I launch a Chi Burst down a line of targets, it doesn't preemptively figure out which targets it's going to hit at cast time or anything. It just launches the orb, and there is collision detection that on it that will heal each target that it collides with. That means that when the first target gets hit, none of the other targets have been hit yet, so there's no other hits to help determine how much damage/healing it should do.

So, we have a different solution for these spells. They build a list at cast time of all potential targets, and a count of how many other potential targets are near each one of those targets. That count is used for the AoE capping logic.

Chi Burst: Potential targets are all targets within 60yd. Clump radius is 10yd.
Chi Torpedo: Potential targets are all targets within 40yd*. Clump radius is 10yd. (*was 25yd, should be *40yd in next build)
Divine Star: Potential targets are all targets within 40yd. Clump radius is 18yd.
Halo: Potential targets are all targets within 40yd. Clump radius is 30yd.

This works, but has some downsides of gamability, and potentially AoE capping more than needed. Example: Have a clump of a dozen players. Throw a Chi Burst but mis-aim it so it only grazes a single person in the clump. It'll apply the full AoE capping in that case, even though it only healed one target.

Just did a tuning pass on weapon enchants, and here are what they'll do in the next build. (See Blue Tracker for full list)

-The other day I soloed ICC and ULD with my 90 premade toons for fun, and realized that all of my damage jumped by 100-120 times, while the formula you gave before showed 16.5 as the maximum multiplier. That's where I started guessing about a new formula implemented. Testing in Firelands showed a multiplier around 30 and considering that the mob was squished to 25%, it's about the same 100-120 multiplier in total.
Looks like we changed the formula to make it scale much more. I'll get new formulae for you soon.

1) Darkmoon cards seem very week (620 only) compared to heroic high maul gear (655), even weaker than 5h (630 and rarely 645). What's the reason behind that?
2) Why do devs decide to use 15 as the new tier difference, instead of 13 which has been used for such a long time?
3) I could see 620 and 660 pvp gears (while in pvp they're 675 and 690). Are those the final versions of pvp gear progression in 6.0? If so, then that big gap is really causing some issue imo and 660 pvp gear is again "necessary" for pve progression now that the only better stuff than 660 is tier-2 raid gear.
1) Darkmoon cards are upgradable.
2) To create more differentiation and allow more gradiation within a tier.
3) The very top end of PvP gear is good, but not great, for PvE. That does not make it necessary for PvE.

This isn't really theorycraft, so please start a new thread to discuss that further. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Garrison Resource Cap
Just to be clear. The resource cap is a holding cap, not a weekly earning cap. There are no limits (currently) on how many resources per week you are able to earn, just that you can walk around with a maximum of 1000 on your character at any given time.

We are working on more cool things to spend resources on. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Garrison Followers and Custom Attributes
Level 2 of the inn lets you select custom attributes on the followers you recruit, not your existing ones. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Blue Tweets

Racials
racials in WoD favour alliance heavily. Surely you should aim for parity rather than using them as a social engineering tool?
Everything we're seeing suggests that there previously was a favor toward Horde, and now there is parity. (Celestalon)
If have any data to suggest otherwise, we'd love to evaluate it. (Celestalon)

Classes
just curious are the class mechanics close to being worked out at this point?
Close, but not all done. Still several things on our list, design-wise. Then tuning, which may involve a few more design changes. (Celestalon)

Many classes have spec specific lvl100 talents, many also do not, any chance at adding spec-specific talents to boost flavor?
It's an option in our toolbox, but not always required in order to create an interesting choice. (Celestalon)

Is the intent still to make all three talents in a tier competitive, or are you okay with just two? 1/2
Yes, all 3 talents should be competitive, though some may be more niche than others. (Celestalon)
What is different between "niche" and "used only in very specific circumstances that occur only 1 fight/tier"?
That's just a matter of extremes; of just *how* niche something is. What's the concern? (Celestalon)

Monk (Forums / Skills / WoD Talent Calculator)
I don't get what your problem is . Nerf the dmg but increase the energy regen. Win Win, same dmg and always stuff to press.
The problem is that Windwalker is an energy based spec, and many people are forgetting the impact of that. (Celestalon)
Making an energy based spec that's not limited by energy... Is simply not something we're going to do. (Celestalon)
Devil's advocate - What about Mana based specs that aren't limited by Mana? Why have a Mana bar in the first place?
They're limited by some other resource (sometimes that's Time), and are designed around that. (Celestalon)
So you may as well axe some specs Mana bars, no? Or is this intended to be flavour? An homage to when it did matter?
Somewhat flavor. It's a very fair criticism that most DPS with mana bars don't use mana as their primary resource. (Celestalon)
In these cases, Mana is functionally a tertiary resource, used for offheals/utility. Presentation as primary is misleading. (Celestalon)

any thought about monks changing their celestial guardian depending on what stance they are in, so brew get the ox not xuen?
It's something we'd like to do, but would be mostly just a cosmetic change, so is low on our priority list at the moment. (Celestalon)

Paladin (Forums / Skills / WoD Talent Calculator)
Will Empowered Seals be altered to allow seal swapping without using the GCD? Or is this complexity intended.
Complexity is intended. (Celestalon)

Warlock (Forums / Skills / WoD Talent Calculator)
Is Warlock T100 designed to allow you to choose between Infernal & Doomguard by personal pref, or are they still split AoE / ST?
Doomguard is single target. Infernal is AoE/Tanking. (Celestalon)

can demo get back the old gosac only with passive fury gen attached, petless option would be nice
Changes are coming to that talent slot, but not like that; sacrificing your pet is too kit-inappropriate for *Demonology*. (Celestalon)

Why the Soul Shard cost to Soul Swap? Adds a global to each target i need to DoT. VERY costly in PvP.
A global? Should be a shard cost, not a GCD cost. Soulburn isn't on the GCD. But intended to be high cost. Want Warlocks... (Celestalon)
...to actually cast their DoTs most of the time. SB:SS should be a niche tool, not the main source of DoT applications. (Celestalon)

Warrior (Forums / Skills / WoD Talent Calculator)
all questions about stance dancing have been ignored, myself and others have asked many times.
Not ignored, just already answered in the patch notes. (Celestalon)
We expect that in their current implementation on beta, it'll displease many warriors, but won't once... (Celestalon)
...we fully implement it. Some changes are good, even knowing that we won't get much positive feedback. (Celestalon)

3 Raging Blows = 12 second CS window, correct?
If those RBs are within the CS, yes. (Celestalon)
What about Enrage extention? Enrage already falls off before CS less reliable crit now, just going to BT more in CS
Yes, as you absolutely should. It significantly changes your in-CS gameplay. (Celestalon)
Yes will have to play with it more. Just seems like we will spend all the extra CS hitting BT again for Enrage.
1 extra BT within the CS is not "all the extra CS". Big difference. (Celestalon)

Think we could shift some of the rage gen away from crit? This helps a lot but even having crit be +50% instead of +100%...
That's also on our list in case we need to tune up or down the value of crit, but will happen in tuning. (Celestalon)

Warlords of Draenor Stats
however dots do multistrike yes?
The *damage* from DoTs will multistrike. The DoT itself doesn't apply two debuffs. (Celestalon)

I think it gets confusing on the few abilities that have multiple hits. Penance, Missiles, etc. AoE/Dots trigger per tick?
Each Penance missile, or each Arcane Missile, can multistrike. AoEs can deal multistrike damage to each target individually. (Celestalon)

I ultimately don't understand how in the end it is any different than a crit. It's just a chance of increased damage.
Similar in that it gives you additional damage, but it does so in a different way, with a different feeling, and implication (Celestalon)

can the damage resulting from multistrike crit?
Yes, but a multistrike's damage is not dependant on the damage that triggered it; it's a separate damage roll. (Celestalon)

This brings the question: Will resource generators multistriking generate more resources or will it just copy the damage?
Just the damage. (Celestalon)

General answer to all "Does this Multistrike?" questions:Everything benefits *once* from Multistrike. No doubledipping, or zerodipping. (Celestalon)
Does that include taunts? :P
.No, debuffs/buffs don't multistrike, only damage/healing. (Celestalon)
how do HoTs and Dots benefit from multistrike? Extra tick or doubled damage/healing?
Each tick has a chance to multistrike. (Celestalon)

PvP
comes to open world cross realm tech, how is Ashran going to be different to other open world events on Oceanic servers?
A good question, we'll be sending a lot of the oceanics to the same Ashran. (holinka)

any plans to make reporting bots easier in wod? Report afk is a bit vague. Let us help you remove bots from pvp!
Definitely something we're talking a lot about but nothing to announce yet. (holinka)

Lore
The high-Arakkoa models look really cool. Will any of them be with the Arak Outcasts as exiled, but not corrupt? Or enemies only?
You might see one. (_DonAdams)

While we're on the arakkoa topic though, are the Outcasts the same group we fought in Terokkar?
Some of them, yes. (_DonAdams)

random question but are the arakkoa outcasts the wingless ones or do they have some winged outcasts too?
The vast majority are cursed and have withered/useless wings. You might meet a few un-cursed arakkoa who have left Skyreach... (_DonAdams)

World
Celestalon, are you aware that almost all lava ticks for a static 20% of your characters health on beta?
Yes, intended. (Celestalon)

Misc
"only complaint I have about WoW ... lots of oppurtunity to meet strangers, nothing to help make friends" @AmeliaTalon
Hopefully our new group finder is a step in the right direction. But we could do more for guilds. (holinka)
For instance, we've discussed a "Recently Seen" list in social to help you find people again. (holinka)
Like if you had a good dungeon experience in LFD, after the group breaks up, you can reach out, etc. (holinka)
but everything with good intentions has potential for harassment so we need to be careful. (holinka)

EU Connected Realms Update - 28/07

The following realms are due to be connected on 30 July:

English Realms

• (PvE) Bronzebeard and Aerie Peak

German Realms

• (PvP) Mannoroth and Nefarian/Nera'thor

Russian Realms

• (PvP) Гром and Термоштепсель

The following realms are due to be connected after the realms above:

German Realms

• (PvP) Destromath and Nefarian/Nera'thor/Mannoroth

Finalboss #51 - Warlocks and Shadow Priest
Finalboss talked with DPSonRoids of Midwinter and TwinTop of Slash/Hug this week about Warlock and Shadow priests in Warlords of Draenor.

[Yavamar]

A shame about the tagging. A lot of people seem to be in favor of open tap on the official forums.

[Holybell]

A shame about the tagging. A lot of people seem to be in favor of open tap on the official forums.

There is no reason not to go to shared tagging, all you do with the current system is create trolling and ire as people try to complete quests. I rather walk up and take out this mob with this one guy instead of letting him kill it and having to wait for it to respawn to fight whoever else is there for claim.

[Masarah]

There is no reason not to go to shared tagging, all you do with the current system is create trolling and ire as people try to complete quests. I rather walk up and take out this mob with this one guy instead of letting him kill it and having to wait for it to respawn to fight whoever else is there for claim.

All open world tagging would encourage is for me as a Mage to walk through the quest area, Ice Lance any mob already engaged in combat with someone else, then reap the rewards for zero effort.

Open world tagging would be ok if there is a minimum damage requirement, such as a % of mob health based on the number of tags.

[lizardo]

All open world tagging would encourage is for me as a Mage to walk through the quest area, Ice Lance any mob already engaged in combat with someone else, then reap the rewards for zero effort.

Open world tagging would be ok if there is a minimum damage requirement, such as a % of mob health based on the number of tags.

I've never seen this type of activity in other mmos with shared tagging it's generally not that worth it. Most players would get pretty bored of playing like this. In any case you'd still have to run around and loot everything. Aoe loot doesn't have that large an area.
Most share tagging does have a min participation to get the rewards anyway.
Blizz is just being way too "safe: with this change.

[Geodew]

No, I agree with Blizzard. The leveling experience (speaking very generally, not just about WoD) needs improvement, and making it into a further-trivialized DoT-and-run extravaganza is NOT a step in the right direction.

[subanark]

What's wrong with Wildstar's way of doing things? You get loot and quest completion proportional to the amount of damage your group did to the mob (every quest where you kill multiple things gives you a percentage completion rate, with harder NPCs granting more). Doing a little damage here and there doesn't add up to as much as if you just focus something down.

[aeuhe4yxzhds]

Isnt it just an issue the first day or two when everyone has to do the same quest at the same time?

[slayton]

What's wrong with Wildstar's way of doing things? You get loot and quest completion proportional to the amount of damage your group did to the mob (every quest where you kill multiple things gives you a percentage completion rate, with harder NPCs granting more). Doing a little damage here and there doesn't add up to as much as if you just focus something down.

I actually really disliked this system, in Wildstar I was trying to complete quests as fast as possible and when spawns were slightly limited I found it REALLY annoying several other guys would just jump in and "steal" 50% of my credit. I'd rather just have the option to help people kill a mob out of kindness than out of gaining any benefit.

[Duridi]

Personally I am not a fan of shared tagging, and greatly prefer the system the way Blizzard does it. Wildstar's system doesn't fit WoW either. Aion had a similar one, except there only the person doing the most damage would get credit. Certain classes were that way put at heavy disadvantage over others, which is probably what would happen in WoW as well. I haven't played in a while, but last I checked some classes would burst down mobs a lot quicker than others. Burst would be very important in areas with a lot of players.

- - - Updated - - -

I actually really disliked this system, in Wildstar I was trying to complete quests as fast as possible and when spawns were slightly limited I found it REALLY annoying several other guys would just jump in and "steal" 50% of my credit. I'd rather just have the option to help people kill a mob out of kindness than out of gaining any benefit.

Honestly, I would not even be comfortable with stealing credit from the one who attacked the mob first. How is that any less "griefing" than the current system? (which imo hasn't been a problem in years... or well, only at expansion launch).

- - - Updated - - -

There is no reason not to go to shared tagging, all you do with the current system is create trolling and ire as people try to complete quests. I rather walk up and take out this mob with this one guy instead of letting him kill it and having to wait for it to respawn to fight whoever else is there for claim.

If I'm waiting for respawns, I tend to help kill the one active mob even if it's not my tag. Makes the mob die quicker, gives me something to do while waiting, and any new mob will respawn quicker(not by much, but atleast I didn't just sit there and watch when I had the chance to actually do something more fun some of that extra time).

[Deleted]

They have no clue what there doing to Monks, they're ruining ww for no reason what so ever other than saying its a energy spec? completely pointless and more important unfun change they could make.

[Cronnix]

No, I agree with Blizzard. The leveling experience (speaking very generally, not just about WoD) needs improvement, and making it into a further-trivialized DoT-and-run extravaganza is NOT a step in the right direction.

Nobody plays WoW for leveling, it's time for them to stop pretending. Make leveleing simple and painless experience where people don't need to fight over mobs - it works wonders in other MMOs and promotes cooperation instead of pointless competition.

[elvor0]

Nobody plays WoW for leveling, it's time for them to stop pretending. Make leveleing simple and painless experience where people don't need to fight over mobs - it works wonders in other MMOs and promotes cooperation instead of pointless competition.

Nobody, eh? I know enough people who actually like levelling alts. I don't, I'm crap at levelling but it is certainly NOT the fact that we don't have open tagging that puts me off. Mainly, because it almost never happens, the world is so vast and varied, you barely see anyone else, 1-85. Even in MoP you barely see anyone levellling.

I mean mob competition is only going to be an issue at the launch of WoD, after that, it'll die down after the initial surge, furthermore, should there /be/ any cooperation between horde and alliance? They should most certainly be competing with each other. The best way around mob competition in the initial surge is just form a group with guildies or friends.

[Cronnix]

Nobody, eh? I know enough people who actually like levelling alts. I don't, I'm crap at levelling but it is certainly NOT the fact that we don't have open tagging that puts me off. Mainly, because it almost never happens, the world is so vast and varied, you barely see anyone else, 1-85. Even in MoP you barely see anyone levellling.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hyperbole

should there /be/ any cooperation between horde and alliance? They should most certainly be competing with each other. The best way around mob competition in the initial surge is just form a group with guildies or friends.

I'm not talking open tagging between factions but within a faction.

[Deleted]

No, I agree with Blizzard. The leveling experience (speaking very generally, not just about WoD) needs improvement, and making it into a further-trivialized DoT-and-run extravaganza is NOT a step in the right direction.

in every MMO I've played with shared tagging, I've had a massively better experience than in games with mob tagging.

Rift had tagging, removed it, massive increase in fun right there. I like seeing other players. Or GW2 where everything is shared, its great, players help each other, players ressurrect each other. Its really social around events with people forming crowds and chatting.

When in the world, you see other players, you play with them, you talk if you want.


Compare that to wow.....annoyance everytime I see another player in the same area. Competing for resources and mobs and quest items. Pick up groups are not social at all, no more so than shared tags anyway....

LFG dailies.....

Then never say anything until you drop group.

Bliz really needs to get out of the past.

[Bas Prime]

In all the time since I played GW2, I wondered why Blizz would not use this great system of having mobs being tabable by everybody.
I kinda get their arguement, but in all the many years I played WoW, I was always annoyed at my faction for tabing a mob I was just approaching. (If an Alliance member would tab it, fine, we are at war).
I tried to group in my early years. Mostly I got "already in a group" and there would be no invite for me, or just a decline. Nowadays I dont want to group. I want to help, yes, but I want to do that on the fly, not having to invite, or be invited. Make buffs like auras, so every faction member benefits from it without being in a group, and without me having to constantly (every hour, of course) rebuff my stuff. (where is that skill or useful, or even not annyoing?)

My example from GW. There is a herb I want to gather (Herbs, veins and stuff is phased in GW2 so everybody can farm it) and a mob is "guarding" it. So I attack the mob to kill it. In WoW, another player rushes to the herb and collects it, and is gone, while I still fight with the mob. In GW, there is a good, (in my expirience) chance, the player will help me kill the mob (since he can also loot it then) and we can both collect the herb.
In what universe is that a bad thing? (No, not in all of them!)

Also, while we are at it, insert the Gold, Silver and Bronze level of reward. Do it in LFR for Dommhammers sake. So if players are just barely approaching the mob, or the boss, and they make the last 5% of the HP of the boss damage to it, then it will probably only be a bronze reward, while players who where there all the time, not afking, and damaging, tanking and healing like they should get gold reward.
So there would be no afking in LFR, and the people who do minumum ammount of efford get the minimum or nothing.

[Azrile]

I think the argument Blizzard is using about shared tagging is a theoretical one that has not played out in other games with shared tagging. Their argument sounds good on paper, but the reality is in games with shared tagging, you just do not see the behavior that Blizzard seems to expect will happen.

But that said, WOW is unique in many ways. The community, especially those wishing to ´cheat´ are much more efficient and advanced in WOW. I could see tag-sharing be used as part of gold-farming.

[Noix]

good idea should be base on the dmg done to mob.. more times you hit it more exp you gain (IE: low % such as .0100% to your exp with the kill of X % *we say 1%). so that way people wouldnt just run around hitting a mob and moving on, and would also have people help out others on that mob.

Not sure if that make sense let me break it down.

Mob A gets hit by Player A & B
both get total of kill xp (we say 1% keep it small)
but Player A attacked it more so gets that bonus from attacking it per hit (each hit = .0100%)
player B came half way but still get that bonus from attacking it per hit (each hit = .0100%)
Player A got (we say) .9% total from all his hits
Player B got (we say) .5% total from all his hits (due to coming half way into the fight)
Both players get (we say) 1% for killing the mob as a team..
Player A = 1.9% Xp from that mob
Player B = 1.5% Xp from that mob

That way it sorta forces that other player to stay and help cuz your getting xp from each hit.
Idea is from RF Online (if anyone played the game) each hit gives you % of xp (this includes the dmg you do to mob) + the kill % xp from that mob.

[Veraki]

Nobody plays WoW for leveling, it's time for them to stop pretending. Make leveleing simple and painless experience where people don't need to fight over mobs - it works wonders in other MMOs and promotes cooperation instead of pointless competition.

I enjoy leveling, and get bored if just leveling through dungeons etc. Apparently I am somebody. Apparently I am not the only one. Your opinion does not make it everybodies.

[Yriel]

How is a random quest group where no one says a word and people drop in and out as they finish their quests social but the same players playing the same way solo asocial ?
Blizzards definition of "people in a group for whatever reasons = social = good" is really funny.