WOD Feral PvE

[Kraineth]

Dots are also a part of the affliction warlock play and they don't kill you in 5 seconds with the warlock not even doing anything else.

And warlocks don't need to spend 4-6 globals and build combo points to actually apply their dots.

You comparison makes no sense, different classes are different.

[Thandorr]

And warlocks don't need to spend 4-6 globals and build combo points to actually apply their dots.

This right here. I have had several people get after me because I have mentioned something to the effect of, "nerfing bleed damage sends a message that is more damaging than dps nerf; it is essentially taking what makes a feral what it is and is changing it. The flavor and essence of the feral druid is being tilted in another direction and its tough to deal with that."

I would have much preferred them nerf us in the way of SR and Shred, and removing double rake than what they did. They nerf'd the damage of our bleeds, the most important part of our play style, but didn't change what is necessary to make the play style work, we'll still have enormous ramp up, its just that the payoff won't be nearly what it was before.

[Leaky]

So our dps is gonna be shit until we get our 2p bonus? are other classes like this too? seems kinda stupid that they would base our dps around the set bonuses, IMO set bonus should be minor things like run speed or an extra few seconds on a dot or 1% damage reduction, something like that. but no they force us all to fight for the same gear plus without reforging our stats are pretty fixed it seems aside from the minor off pieces

I mean it's give and take. I prefer set bonuses that can change up the playstyle a bit, sort of like the Hunter T14 4pc. A slight change in playstyle is fine.
Set bonuses SHOULD feel like they make you stronger. I don't like when they feel like you can't do anything without it, or the make the class clunky in the hopes you get 2pc. Energy regen shouldnt be balanced around 2pc, 2pc should be balanced around the energy regen.

It also can set a bad precedent for those who are new to the game not liking a class because it's core mechanic ends up being in the set bonuses.

[kendro1200]

I mean it's give and take. I prefer set bonuses that can change up the playstyle a bit, sort of like the Hunter T14 4pc. A slight change in playstyle is fine.
Set bonuses SHOULD feel like they make you stronger. I don't like when they feel like you can't do anything without it, or the make the class clunky in the hopes you get 2pc. Energy regen shouldnt be balanced around 2pc, 2pc should be balanced around the energy regen.

It also can set a bad precedent for those who are new to the game not liking a class because it's core mechanic ends up being in the set bonuses.

Yeah, this is a problem that stems from them doing class balances around having full tier rather than doing balances without tier to make sure mechanics work first. Then going back and adjusting the tier bonuses so they don't overpower a class. Balancing things the way they do it now has always caused problems because either during or a patch after the next raiding tier, when people should be ditching the old tier gear, they have to roll the set bonus to be inherent within the class and then nerf the set bonus.
What is really frustrating is that if they do this, planning to do so ahead of time, then it means they had no idea of what a good set bonus would be and intentionally broke the class in order to create a 'cool set bonus'.

[teddabear]

Heavy bleed damage tends to be problematic on some heroic encounters. It makes feral really crappy at adds. They need revert the Shred nerf though. Totally agree they have really screwed Feral over with the reverse stat priority depending on number of targets.

[Blk]

Question on the Glyph of Savagery: Can you still spend combo points on SR and have it give you the full 40% and otherwise you are at 30%, or does it make it so you cannot cast SR?

In regards to stats being different for single target and aoe - arms warriors are facing the same problem. Blizzard is oblivious on why aoe is different from single target.

[Trubo]

I get that it was a loss, and that it could be seen as something to look at, but why leave the rest of Warriors the same? They're already parsing ridiculously high in most situations (including Glad Stance Prot) and yet they're giving them more tools to use? I'd have less of a problem with them addressing an ability that needed help if their class wasn't already stupid. Feral needed a nerf, don't get me wrong. But the class (and all of its specs) that was nipping our heels is only getting more to work with in the way of buffs to abilities, whether they needed help or not.

Because there's only so much you can tune an ability in a 2-3 ability rotation before people just ignore using the ability or only use that ability. See Arms back when people made a 1 button /castsequence macro to do ~95% (I forget the exact numbers) of maximum potential. Or when Arms' Whirlwind was only 7% less damage efficient on single target versus Mortal Strike, allowing for incredibly dull play of Rend everything -> CS on cd (depending on number of targets, think after 4 you didn't bother) -> WW.

Fury's numbers only shot up recently due to SD getting buffed to the point that it hits for around the same amount of damage as Arms' Execute before all the nerfs they got.

Gladiator I'm biased towards as it resembles MoP Fury which I like a lot, but it really suffers on fights that call for on-demand burst single target and AoE/cleave. For sustained damage though it's pretty good.

[Lynxx89]

Question on the Glyph of Savagery: Can you still spend combo points on SR and have it give you the full 40% and otherwise you are at 30%, or does it make it so you cannot cast SR?

In regards to stats being different for single target and aoe - arms warriors are facing the same problem. Blizzard is oblivious on why aoe is different from single target.

It makes it so that you cannot cast Savage Roar.

Blizz is fully aware of AoE vs. ST, but its one of those situations where we dont know the overall picture or plan. I'm being optimistic that we are going to see a few more changes to switch the AoE stat priority. Swipe buff was most likely a testing the waters on direct damage AoE. Just like rogues got +50% to Crimson Tempest. It will get tweaked from there once they see how it plays out.

[Papyscrap]

Anybody have a current sim with the last build. nerfing the 2pc bonus i see hopefully they we have to buff something else now RIP PLEASe! ;D

[Valqt]

Anybody have a current sim with the last build. nerfing the 2pc bonus i see hopefully they we have to buff something else now RIP PLEASe! ;D

http://downloads.simulationcraft.org...PostPatch.html

Latest simcraft.

[Papyscrap]

Thanks looks ok.. as long as we are in the top 10 im happy ;P when are they gonna nerf warrior? gdamn i dont understand how Gladiator warrior is one of the top dps

[Trubo]

I would happily throw Arms and Fury into the gutter if it means Gladiator can stay where it is.

Edit: Derp, Patchwerk in topright

[teddabear]

Anybody have a current sim with the last build. nerfing the 2pc bonus i see hopefully they we have to buff something else now RIP PLEASe! ;D

The 2pc needed nerfing but it was idiotic and retarded to nerf Feral across the board without nerfing the 2pc first. The other problem is 140% is too high for SR. Blizzard has an 8 year history of never admitting they screwed up, so how do they fix Feral if it turns out the 2 pc nerf is too much after all the other nerfs.

[Thandorr]

I definitely think that the 2pc nerf is too much after all the other nerfs. They need to nerf SR by 10% and then put rip/rake back where it was last week. Leave the set bonus's where they are and buff the mastery coefficient. I think after that, we should be solid and our stat weights would be a little more manageable.

[Deleted]

Leave the set bonus's where they are and buff the mastery coefficient. I think after that, we should be solid and our stat weights would be a little more manageable.

You mean "after that we will be just like now". Aim for perfection, not for the same old results.

[Kraineth]

The 2pc needed nerfing but it was idiotic and retarded to nerf Feral across the board without nerfing the 2pc first. The other problem is 140% is too high for SR. Blizzard has an 8 year history of never admitting they screwed up, so how do they fix Feral if it turns out the 2 pc nerf is too much after all the other nerfs.

Then we see SR at 150% YAY......

But really, the very first Beta build should have included SR put back down to 130%, the buff in ToT was purely a bandaid buff because we had some issues, it should have been reverted right off the bat.

[Thandorr]

You mean "after that we will be just like now". Aim for perfection, not for the same old results.

What's wrong with where Ferals are on live? Our single target is incredibly solid, and they have already buffed our AoE and cleave dps, so that's a non-issue if they will get the stat weights right.

[Ryanite]

How Does everyone feel about Feral siming some 40% + odd downtime atm? I've always had a resto druid main but for mop I mostly played my hunter and now that I've got a taste for solo play I want that with my druid so I'm looking at feral but going from hunters 0% downtime to 40% is off putting. I have yet to try it on PTR so I guess once the patch comes around that'l be the ultimate test.

[Kojo]

That's pretty normal for feral.

[Zstr]

What's wrong with where Ferals are on live? Our single target is incredibly solid, and they have already buffed our AoE and cleave dps, so that's a non-issue if they will get the stat weights right.

wrong that they are lacking direct damage