[Mage] Our identity, do you feel like the master of magics?

[Polarthief]

Is Mage a master of magic? No because there are different spell schools. Is Mage a master of arcane magic? Yes, because he is specialized on at least one of three parts of the arcane magic spell school.

Doesn't that seem a bit silly though, that we master one of three PARTS of Arcane Magic, while Shamans, Balance Druids, Warlocks, and Shadow Priests have mastered their respective schools entirely? (Nature, Nature, Fel, and Divine, respectively)

[Deleted]

Yes, you're right. Lorewise it is silly, I think. A mage should be able to use every spell with different strenght. Or at least a fourth specializastion that uses every aspect of arcane magic. More variety of spells, maybe in form of combinations like frostfire or weaker versions of specialized spells with some kind of bonus when using all three schools (like that one talent in Diablo 3).
Nature, Fel and Divine magic also have different aspects I think. Druids with their balance aspect and Shamans asking the elements for help are using every aspect of it, but Priests and Warlocks have a different focus on aspects of their school. Light (healing (Holy) and protection (Discipline)) and Shadow from the divine school. Warlocks are very different with focus on either slow, painful shadow skills (Affliction), enhanced demons (Demonology) or direct powerful spells (Destruction).
But well for mages I heard both: Some people want to be specialized in one aspect, others want to be able to use a lot of spells regardless which aspect they are. Quite hard to satisfy them all without a fourth specialisation.
I always wished for something like the Arcane Warrior from Dragon Age: Origins. Battlemage like

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Actually, I think we're turning into the opposite. The spec-specific talents prove that we're NOT elementalists, such as Warlocks, Shamans, and Druids.

Not really. Spec specifica talents only give us "Hey you can have an Arcane something."

[Polarthief]

Not really. Spec specifica talents only give us "Hey you can have an Arcane something."

Elementalists don't specialize like Mages do. Elementalists use all of their elements, such as a Shaman, Warlock, or Druid. Mages primarily use one school and very lightly may use a second.

Elemental Shamans use 2-3 lightning spells, 2 fire spells, 2 earth spells, sometimes 1-3 water spells, 1 ice spell, and 1-2 air spells, and even have a talent that combines all of their elements; I mean look at how many things they use. We use all Fire/Frost/Arcane as our primary spells, as Frost we use one mixed element (Frostfire Bolt) and as Frost/Fire, we use some Arcane utility spells.

[Xexyz]

Until the Spell of Mastery appears in my spellbook, I won't feel like a master of magics.

[Deleted]

I think the "specialization" system is messed up right now. It feels weird. Deep freeze being a primary nuke for fire mages for example.
I liked a clearer margin between classes. Of course mages always used spells from other specs, but the lines have blurred so much
I'm not sure why specializations exist at all any more.

[Orrin]

No, I don't feel like master of magic most of the time. It seems that other classes get spells that are difficult to cast while Mages are more on simplistic side. I don't know if it's about giving Warlocks traditionally (lorewise) Mage utility, simplicity of rotation ingame or introduction of the talents that make you weak unless you jump through hoops. Further separation of specs in WoD saddens even more, it's not like we're masters of magic but more of simple elementalists who can't do much outside their school of magic.
Warlocks are not using Arcane anymore to manipulate Fel, and Mages are no longer a practitioners who don't go down dark path. It makes Arcane school as a whole weaker. I'm waiting retcon of Necromancy making it a non 'Arcane school of magic too to make magic lore even less interesting and systematized.
Also I don't know if whole timetravel theme lends itself good in Mage kit the way it's presented right now. In WoD there will be just one timetraveling spell - Alter Time and it's somewhat dull (I don't play PvP).
Another thing is abundance of crystals in gear sets and as level 100 talent. Where did all this come from and how is it connected to Mages? Why are they suddenly a new theme? Are shields and timetravel finished to be researched?

[Difuid]

The crystal theme may have been inspired by the Mana Gem.

Back to the mage feeling, it would be important to show our mastery in waving magic, to show we do not borrow it nor beg for it from other beings, something that gives us the ability to manipulate the magic of others. Something to show we can weave or unravel spells when we please. Hmm, actually why we never got dispell but remove curse is beyond me. Also to combine magic schools freely like in Magicka but I guess that is beyond what the WoW engine is capable of right now.

I would love a spell that turns a buff into a debuff or vice versa. Just imagine Bloodlust/Heroism slowing your opponents or a DoT to start healing instead. Amplify magic is making a come back which is kind of nice.

An other dream of me is being able to attune runes freely to any place(with some rules to avoid exploiting) and then being able open portals to there, would be awesome. Porting raid members to a mountain peak in the middle of nowhere or a more practical use would be to get the whole group right to an entrance or even to Moonglade, just to show those pesky druids :P

[Deztru]

Since mages are users of arcane energies, we should use a lot more arcane-like abilities even as fire and frost. Arcane would be the one continuing along with arcane and mastering it more than others.

Like now in WoD Flamestrike will apply ignite to the targets, we should have our AE hit burning targets with great force, causing an explosion. Dealing X% of ignite as fire damage to enemies withing 10 yards for every ignite target hit.

It is a shame that Arcane is the only mage-feeling spec left in WoD.

[gallamann]

Personally I believe the current and planned 90 tier represent a large chunk of the mage feel being lost. If they just baked that damage into our spells or a specific spell per spec, we would feel a lot more like a mage. Current model is "oh let me setup to be able to unleash my true potential" whereas the very act of casting any spell should unleash your true potential.

[Vynestra]

I like the spec specific-ness of mage in WoD. I like being able to have spec identity, compared to other spec mages. I'm an arcane mage, you are a fire mage and they are a frost mage.

It feels nice to be a little bit more unique. Not just mage. I feel we have the ability to be any of the three specs, but we choose something and master it.

[LocNess]

I like the spec specific-ness of mage in WoD. I like being able to have spec identity, compared to other spec mages. I'm an arcane mage, you are a fire mage and they are a frost mage.

It feels nice to be a little bit more unique. Not just mage. I feel we have the ability to be any of the three specs, but we choose something and master it.

Yep that really perfectly sums up my thoughts on "flavour" coming in WoD. I never liked Fire Mages being able to Arcane Explosion, and Frost Mages being able to Fireblast. Really happy things are becoming more spec-oriented.

[Deztru]

Yep that really perfectly sums up my thoughts on "flavour" coming in WoD. I never liked Fire Mages being able to Arcane Explosion, and Frost Mages being able to Fireblast. Really happy things are becoming more spec-oriented.

They could and IMO they really should imbue the other specs with some form of arcane energies. It feels just dumb to me that if a mage wants to master fire it's just 'BAM! You have nothing to do with arcane energies that are natural to all mages anymore'

[Polarthief]

It feels just dumb to me that if a mage wants to master fire it's just 'BAM! You have nothing to do with arcane energies that are natural to all mages anymore'

Well, like everything else in life, forgetting the mastery of your specific school of mage is stuck behind a paywall. Pay a few coins and you automatically forget you knew your current school and "remembered" that you mastered school Y last year instead. It's kinda silly if you think about it.

[Deztru]

Well, like everything else in life, forgetting the mastery of your specific school of mage is stuck behind a paywall. Pay a few coins and you automatically forget you knew your current school and "remembered" that you mastered school Y last year instead. It's kinda silly if you think about it.

It would make more sense if we had sub-classes that have long quest chains to actually get talented in Pyromancy/Cryomancy to modify the arcane to transform into other elements of magic.

[Deleted]

I don't feel like a master of anything as any class.

[Deleted]

In the beginning there was a lot of choice of spells, Mages could have been masters of their own destiny and magics, shaping their studies how they saw fit. Now it's all decided for us we are just windowlicker's that the cookie cutters want us to be. We will always be apprentices now that way, never masters. A shame, perhaps it's time to look at another game and its magic system which offers more choice, any spell can be learned if desired and a magician can shape his own mastery of magic how he or she sees fit and tailored to become the master they want to be.

[Pull My Finger]

So, you didn't even care to read my OP it seems. This thread has absolute ZERO to do with feedback. I ain't going to use the discussion of this thread for anything. It's just a talk between Mages on our beloved class. Furthermore this is the Mage forum, it's not a feedback forum for Mages. While there is a chance that a Blizzard emplyee reads this, it certainly doesn't mean every single thread in here has to be 100% feedback towards improving Mages. Also this is the only thread on this forum that is this vague. I made it that by design, here we can pull out our tinfoil hats out and just post what we FEEL.

You certainly don't have to join to this discussion if you feel it ain't worth your time.. And that goes for everyone.

Why don't you tone down the drama and just try thinking like a normal person for a second.

I don't know why you're getting hung up on the word "feedback" so much. It's just me talking - I'm not dissecting and mirroring your post by single paragraphs.

It doesn't matter if you're only whining into an echo chamber or actually hope to be heard. The whole point of my statement is that a whole lot of the stuff you people say is diffuse blah. It's not tangible, not specific and more than often doesn't hold any water, can't be backed up sensefully and is just banter. You're unhappy with things you can't name yourself, wich makes the whole act of addressing your unhapiness pointless.

The only reason I ever even used the word "feedback" was just to point out that this same way of thinking is present when people assume they're providing "feedback" to Blizzard, where in reality they're doing the exact same thing you're doing in this thread: lamenting a diffuse discontent despite your inability to actually analyze it in a tangible way and put it in senseful words, but still somehow automatically assuming there's something "wrong" design-wise.

In simple words: I was criticizing the tendency of players to complaining for the sake of complaining, and rarely even having a point and knowing what their issue is.

Sorry for having disturbed you with actual thinking.

[TheWorkingTitle]

Why don't you tone down the drama and just try thinking like a normal person for a second.

It doesn't matter if you're only whining into an echo chamber or actually hope to be heard. The whole point of my statement is that a whole lot of the stuff you people say is diffuse blah. It's not tangible, not specific and more than often doesn't hold any water, can't be backed up sensefully and is just banter. You're unhappy with things you can't name yourself, wich makes the whole act of addressing your unhapiness pointless.

*snip*

Sorry for having disturbed you with actual thinking.

I hadn't realized you hold an authoritative position on what is normal. I'll keep that in mind for the future. Furthermore, developers would do well to listen to long-playing Mage players for many reasons. They've seen more, played more iterations, and have a more fully developed feel and outlook (as that's what mr.greenthumb was saying) of what it's like to play a Mage. That's invaluable information if you ask me.

Ultimately, this thread is about Mage discussion of its past, present, and future (and how it all felt/feels) and you did nothing but try and shit on his outlook and dismiss it as useless banter. Maybe taking a few more moments to understand the basis of the thread would bode you well next time.

Is this where I say something uselessly snarky to try and cap off my post?



OT: Anyone else remember Dopefish's old exploration videos? When there was wall-jumping and a necessity of having blink and slow-fall to reach unknown worlds - that truly made me feel like a Master of Magic. In Siege of Niuzao when you reach the gong stage - try blinking through the invisible wall and expediting your groups progress by killing the mobs down below while having someone bang the gong. Fastest way to do it, me thinks

[Polarthief]

It would make more sense if we had sub-classes that have long quest chains to actually get talented in Pyromancy/Cryomancy to modify the arcane to transform into other elements of magic.

And then have the expansion compromised by a "waste of resources", as claimed by Blizzard. Y'know, like they did with Cataclysm, and WoD OH WAIT.



@Pull: Really? There's a difference between disagreeing and just trying to tear down a thread altogether. Please leave if you're going to continue with that.