So what does that "locate rogues" hunterbook mean?

[Verain]

EDIT: THIS BOOK IS DATAMINED GARBAGE. BLIZZARD DIDN'T WANT TO SHIT ON US, AND ALL THAT COUNTERCLASS CRAP IS JUST FORUM GARBAGE

https://twitter.com/holinka/status/502248269758492672

Holinka tweet:

If this is about a datamined book, that was made but isn't actually in the game.

Original post follows, but this thread is p. much done except to show that rogues were legit concerned, and some players hate rogues so much that they think it's ok if hunters DID have a "track rogues" book. Whew. This is so huge for me.

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I get that it's in progress, but like:

http://beta.wowdb.com/items/116983-guide-rogue-tracking

How do you get this item? How long does it last?


http://beta.wowdb.com/items/recipes/book

This list of items is very strange. Specifically, that some are blue, some are purple, and one is legendary (the flight form druid one).

Do you expect to loot one of these during your Asheran, and it's usable for that Asheran, or do you like, get one a month in and count yourself lucky and then get to epic flight form in every Asheran forever?





I'm trying to figure out how many hunters will have this, whether stealth (just on rogues) becomes worthless as an Asheran progresses, or whether stealth (just on rogues) becomes worthless as the expansion progresses, or what. I mean, it really sounds awful, but I'm wondering if there's some mitigation associated with it that I don't understand yet.

[TriHard]

They drop quite frequently in the beta and that is the drop chance they're going with at launch as well.
You don't have to farm for more than perhaps 5-10 minutes to get one of the items.

[Verain]

They drop quite frequently in the beta and that is the drop chance they're going with at launch as well.
You don't have to farm for more than perhaps 5-10 minutes to get one of the items.

And is it a permanent part of your character? You then always gain the benefits whilst in Asheran?

And what about the "legendary" druid book?



So correct me if I'm wrong: When a hunter hits 100, he'll get this book (immediately if he so chooses), and then for the duration of level 100+, can always track rogues (not cats, or mages, or shadow melded warriors, but rogues) with his minimap, which is like 60 yards+?



This is pretty much the worst case scenario. Are you saying that because you know it to be the case (aka, it is like that on beta) or because you are also concerned about it?



The book says right on it "lasts for 60 minutes". That implies to me that the rogue tracking thing would need to be farmed up each Asheran, such that at the start of the fight zero hunters would have this ability, and towards the end of it many would.

[Lesane]

The items drop a lot, lasts for 60 minutes, persists through death, and you can have a max of one in your inventory at a time (so you can use 1 and have 1 in your bags).

[Wow]

The items drop a lot, lasts for 60 minutes, persists through death, and you can have a max of one in your inventory at a time (so you can use 1 and have 1 in your bags).

No, I have more than 1 in my bags you can farm books as many as you can find.

[Verain]

So... I mean, this sounds... awful?


Maybe I'm missing something about the context of this. But it sounds like rogues will have the worst possible stealth in this zone, with hunters roflstomping us from 50+ yards away and such, while ferals and of COURSE hunters go about their stealth business unmolested.



Again, maybe I'm missing something about this zone, but holy shit does that sound both broken and unfun. I mean, "lol, it's world pvp, it's unbalanced!", but there's no book that lets ambush one shot, or makes me immune to arrows, bolts, and bullets. Hunters shouldn't just get to cheese rogue stealth for an expansion at the cost of an inventory spot.

[Sturmgewehr86]

But it sounds like rogues will have the worst possible stealth in this zone, with hunters roflstomping us from 50+ yards away and such, while ferals and of COURSE hunters go about their stealth business unmolested.
Hunters shouldn't just get to cheese rogue stealth for an expansion at the cost of an inventory spot.

They Shouldn't be able to detect us like that yes.If it was detecting all types of stealth it would've been OP and it should've deserve a lot of whining about it but kinda sounds fair you know-detecting everything stealthed.But some retard developer saying fuck it let's just detect rogues makes it outrages.Feel like bashing the idiot's head against a wall.

[Verain]

Well, maybe I'm missing something. But honestly? At this point I doubt it. The amount of crazy stealth and metastealth shit they give hunters is too much on live, so I wouldn't be shocked at all to see this kind of shit.


But we COULD be missing something. Like, there's a rogue book that lets you "pickpocket players for 4 artifact shards". What does that mean? Is that super broken? Like, do you need 40 artifact shards to win, and there needs to be some counter to an army of rogue pickpockets?


I doubt it, though. I just figure I'll see hunters zipping around quickly (and flying around after four months) just hammering rogues out of stealth instantly. If rogues don't have stealth, why even show up at all? I mean, as written, Asheran sounds like something I will avoid, no matter the cost. I didn't roll the stealth class to have my stealth not actually stealth. That's dumb. Again, it would like be going immune to mage spells, or at least most of them.

[Sassafrass]

I agree with you. I was excited for *Trashcan (fixed)......now I'm going to avoid it like the plague.
Typical that Blizzard always throws a wrench into things

Rogues are becoming less appealing tbh. I've always loved the class since 2005, but we're so....stale now. We're stuck in 2007 while everyone else has been "modernized", which includes some of our abilities and even more ways to counter us. Long gone are the days of death lurking in the shadows....now that only happens if you're super geared at the end of the expansion (and then it's not really fun).

Tell me - is being energy starved still a "design choice" in WoD?


Guess my Mage will be my main this expansion... *sigh*

[Wow]

Tell me - is being energy starved still a "design choice" in WoD?

Yes and they are even letting monks in on that fun for wod....

[Hitei]

But we COULD be missing something. Like, there's a rogue book that lets you "pickpocket players for 4 artifact shards". What does that mean? Is that super broken? Like, do you need 40 artifact shards to win, and there needs to be some counter to an army of rogue pickpockets?

Shards are useful for summoning the based defending giant bosses, but they are rather easy to farm. The bosses just sort of act as a barrier against enemy invasion of your main base (until they start wandering around if enough time passes). All-in-all we got the short end of the stick with Ashran stuff, and while it was fun to spam pickpocket shards off of people, they recently nerfed pick-pocket to have a 0.5 second CD, so that we can't just yoink all of a person's shards in a couple seconds.

Which is pretty stupid considering most other classes get stuff that provides large PvP buffs.

[ymirsson]

Haste will fix it! So you can close in on the hunter before he shoots you!

But seriously, i have no idea why hunters still get to bear all that rogue hate while we cannot even sap 'em.

[Hitei]

Haste will fix it! So you can close in on the hunter before he shoots you!

But seriously, i have no idea why hunters still get to bear all that rogue hate while we cannot even sap 'em.

Ashran is the dawning of a new dark age for rogues.
Enjoy fighting that hunter who is camo'd, on a flare, and surrounded by traps you can't disarm anymore.

[Verain]

So wait a second- they create a world pvp place that will matter a little bit for like six months, give a role for pickpocket in that place, and then as a result, they have to nerf pickpocket for all rogues, forever, and all time?


That makes me even more cross. Not "you can only get shards once every X seconds", but, an actual cooldown on pickpocket?



Fuck that.

Enjoy fighting that hunter who is camo'd, on a flare, and surrounded by traps you can't disarm anymore.

I can't stand camo as it is. I wish the old mop beta forums didn't get erased, I would link those devs to a MILE of I-told-you-so,where I called out exactly what hunters would do, the sub-1600 hunters said it wouldn't work like that, and then they were all proved wrong.

But the thing where hunters are better at the stealth game then rogues- even not counting flare- is already ludicrous. The fact that we're losing shadow walk makes this even worse. Throw in the unstoppable traps and the fact that they are allowed to flare while camoed (why?)...


Anyway, I think this is a problem we've seen growing, but a book that just makes you appear on their minimap at all times can go right the fuck to hell. "Here's a class based on stealth. These guys get a thing that names you by name, and takes away your stealth. Oh, other classes get stealth, but they don't get named by name."

[Arcanimus]

This may be hard to believe, but hunters are supposed to be a counter class to rogues.

Just sayin.

[Hitei]

This may be hard to believe, but hunters are supposed to be a counter class to rogues.

Just sayin.

No.
Hunters WERE a counter class to rogues in Vanilla when the game was balanced around rock-paper-scissors. And we in turn had a toolkit to deal with hunters (disarm trap, stuns, slows, etc) and could shred cloth wearers.

The game is no longer based around X Class > Y Class > Z Class > X Class. But Hunters have not only never had their anti-rogue toolkit touched, they've gotten stronger (given stealth, our defining mechanic, immune to sap while camo'd, able to launch traps and flares while stealthed, given instant deploying traps that can no no longer be disarmed)

It's stupid.

To then on top of that garbage, give them the ability to track rogues anywhere in Ashran. Is just unbelievable. Especially given the things we get in Ashran.

[Verain]

This may be hard to believe, but hunters are supposed to be a counter class to rogues.

Just sayin.

As Hitei says, that's bullshit. There's no such thing as a "counterclass".


But by all means, who is the class that gets a book to be immune to hunter shots? Is it like, shamans or something? You can't claim the game is rock / paper / scissors and to "deal with it" if the entire premise is that rock beats scissors, and there is no paper.


Hunters are certainly intended to have anti-stealth. Then they also gave them stealth. Rogues are intended to have traps, and disarm trap. We lost our traps really early, and now we lose our disarm trap. It's fair to say that these two classes were intended to have some interplay on the stealth level, but that's not the world we are in, nor is it the one we are going to be in. Seriously, SHOWS ROGUES ON YOUR MINIMAP?

Nothing is like "warriors can't charge you" or "mages can't root you". No one has those books. None of the other books name some other class and only work against them.

[Maelstrom51]

Maybe Blizzard's goal is to indirectly nerf hunters in Arshan.
If no rogues bother to play in Arshan, then hunters won't have a use for one of their books.

It all makes sense now!

[ymirsson]

Maybe Blizzard's goal is to indirectly nerf hunters in Arshan.
If no rogues bother to play in Arshan, then hunters won't have a use for one of their books.

It all makes sense now!

Sounds like a sinister plan by Dr Doofenshmirtz.

[Deleted]

So wait a second- they create a world pvp place that will matter a little bit for like six months, give a role for pickpocket in that place, and then as a result, they have to nerf pickpocket for all rogues, forever, and all time?


That makes me even more cross. Not "you can only get shards once every X seconds", but, an actual cooldown on pickpocket?



Fuck that.

Wow, you really complain about a 0.5s cooldown?