WoW, unsustainable in its current form!

[Archermit]

I have come to the conclusion that WoW can not survive with the model that Blizzard are aiming for!

Now I didn't raid in TBC, I only started shortly before 3.0 but my friend that got me into the game let me follow him around Org one day, I say a hunter in full T6 and I was in awe of him and even more so when I was told what he had to do to get that gear, I wondered could I ever be "that" good!!

Wrath came around and I started to learn more about the game, over the next 2 years I got better and better and then near the end of Wrath, I was that guy on his frostwyrm in full 277 gear (mostly...damn you deathbringer!!!!) and I had players ask me "wow how did you get that gear, I loved it, the attention, the feeling that I was the envy of these players.

Now the current state of the game, where everyone can get to see all content, can get gear that looks the same as the top players, there is no targets anymore!
The game needs "noobs" to see the top players and think, I want to be like that some day!!

If a boss is too hard then tough, you keep hitting your face off it till it dies, that is how you see the next boss, now I am not saying to make it as difficult as TBC claims to be, but harder that wrath! The results of this would be content would last longer, people would not burn out and overall I think people would be happier knowing they always have something to aim for

[tj119]

Will never happen, WoW is established, at this point in it's life it as about catering to those "noobs" and casuals because lets face it they are the majority. It saddens me as well but it is what it is.

[Gimlix]

WoW will survive for next 20years, but they will survive with the audience they thought they would have 10 years ago, 500k people. Not 12M.

[Lightstorm]

As much as I agree WoW probably wont return to exclusive content mode. Most people arent willing to admit that egotism is one of the driving points of an MMO.

[Pizzakid2093]

WoW will survive for next 20years, but they will survive with the audience they thought they would have 10 years ago, 500k people. Not 12M.

most realistic post I have seen on this forum in ages

[Rosstafa]

The addition of more unique armour sets for Mythic/Elite pvp players will help this, as well as the changes to LFR loot, but I think that's still a relatively minor issue.

There is plenty of content, plenty of high-difficulty challenges for those that seek them. The main issue WoW has really is keeping people hooked, and long content droughts don't help.

[Archermit]

As much as I agree WoW probably wont return to exclusive content mode. Most people arent willing to admit that egotism is one of the driving points of an MMO.

Yes, I will admit that this post makes me out to be eliteist, but I will admit that I got great feeling out of being admired and being begged to join the 10 man run aiming for LK!
I was never rude about it like some people can be, but you can be egotistical but still be nice

[Pua]

It's the chase of exclusive content, at the cost of all else, that's caused this.

If Blizzard had realised that the game thrives on small group content, and then concentrated on providing that rather than every increasing difficulty of heroic raid encounters, the game would be in far better shape.

In short:

I completely disagree with your premises, and conclusions.

[Pizzakid2093]

As much as I agree WoW probably wont return to exclusive content mode. Most people arent willing to admit that egotism is one of the driving points of an MMO.

I agree with you most people aren't willing to admit it, but it is one of, if not the biggest driving force in MMOs. Think about the people who spent thousands on Runescape party hats. MMO's boil down to status and friends. People rise up to the level of content, not the other way around.

- - - Updated - - -

It's the chase of exclusive content, at the cost of all else, that's caused this.

If Blizzard had realised that the game thrives on small group content, and then concentrated on providing that rather than every increasing difficulty of heroic raid encounters, the game would be in far better shape.

In short:

I completely disagree with your premises, and conclusions.

The game did much better when it had LARGER group content. When more people felt they were part of something larger they felt they had more of a reason to stick around and log in everyday.

[Darsithis]

I have come to the conclusion that WoW can not survive with the model that Blizzard are aiming for!

Now I didn't raid in TBC, I only started shortly before 3.0 but my friend that got me into the game let me follow him around Org one day, I say a hunter in full T6 and I was in awe of him and even more so when I was told what he had to do to get that gear, I wondered could I ever be "that" good!!

Gear != good at the game. It doesn't mean it by a long shot. There are tons of people who pay to get their gear in-game through boosts. There are players, like someone in one of my guild's raid teams that is just awful, just terrible, but is 6/14 heroic because the rest of the raid is better. Stop equating gear = good. It's simply not true. Also, back the you were brand-new to the game. You'd never had a pile of heroic gear, you'd never had tier gear, so of course everything looked so awesome for you. Fast forward 5 years and you've had that gear before. That allure is gone.

Wrath came around and I started to learn more about the game, over the next 2 years I got better and better and then near the end of Wrath, I was that guy on his frostwyrm in full 277 gear (mostly...damn you deathbringer!!!!) and I had players ask me "wow how did you get that gear, I loved it, the attention, the feeling that I was the envy of these players.

People still envy you today if you're wearing heroic, or heroic WF gear. I don't personally care for it (the few times people have admired my DW H 1h's I've gotten uncomfortable) but if that's your thing spend more time standing around the entrance to Org/SW

Now the current state of the game, where everyone can get to see all content, can get gear that looks the same as the top players, there is no targets anymore!
The game needs "noobs" to see the top players and think, I want to be like that some day!!

How terrible. Everyone paying to play the game can see all of the content! I'm devastated. All this time I thought only myself and my closest friends were that privileged. I'm astounded to learn otherwise. No, wait, I'm not. What you're really saying is "I want to feel better about myself using pixels so I can demean other people".

If a boss is too hard then tough, you keep hitting your face off it till it dies, that is how you see the next boss, now I am not saying to make it as difficult as TBC claims to be, but harder that wrath! The results of this would be content would last longer, people would not burn out and overall I think people would be happier knowing they always have something to aim for

It doesn't really work that way. Challenge is great, of course, but eventually even the most determined of people walk away if the wall is too high. Blizzard has to strike a balance between offering challenge (challenge modes, heroic modes) and accessibility so everyone can enjoy. You can't please everyone but I believe it's the right direction.

[Archermit]

It doesn't really work that way. Challenge is great, of course, but eventually even the most determined of people walk away if the wall is too high. Blizzard has to strike a balance between offering challenge (challenge modes, heroic modes) and accessibility so everyone can enjoy. You can't please everyone but I believe it's the right direction.

Then make it different content that is easier, if you want the harder content then you need to get better and by harder content I don't mean the same boss but he hits harder and makes more fire. From what I heard for many people that played in TBC, people still had fun raiding kara, the eye etc andaccepted they would never get to see BT or Sunwell

[Mytheros]

The game is established, like others have said.....people are used to the game despite the fact they bitch about it (a lot even)......If blizzard did what you suggest and held firm to it since Vanilla....I think all would have been much better....but after years of simplifying content and game systems to then go "BAM" now we are going ultra strict on raiding....that would be a severe case of too much too soon...and most people would not agree with that.

Wildstar is applying the logic of the OP -- taking a "too bad we aren't nerfing our raiding experience....iif you can't kill the boss then you can't kill the boss" attitude....But since Wildstar is brand new and that's their approach right out the door and in fact have advertised that stance in their marketing they can get away with it easier....

What I find interesting, relating back to the Wildstar example (btw I play both WoW and Wildstar).......you view the forums for WoW people moan and complain wow is too easy, content is too accessible, etc.....but yet players who admit they are wow fans both in Wildstar forums AND via in game chat..make fun of wildstar for being too hard core....its mind numbing...

Whatever the case may be....WoW will have my interest *most likely* until whatever game "Titan" turns out to be is released.....a new MMO from the makers of World of Warcraft...sci-fi based......sign me up! Collector's Edition pre-order the first chance I get.

Based on 2 years for each WoW expansion.....and its rumored Titan will release in late 2016 early 2017....WoD might well be the very last WoW expansion that I play...as WoD's run should take us through all of 2016

[Pua]

The game did much better when it had LARGER group content. When more people felt they were part of something larger they felt they had more of a reason to stick around and log in everyday.

World of Warcraft was at its best during WotLK, when 10-man raiding made its debut. In other words, aiming for smaller group content; dungeons were also hugely popular thanks to currency gearing as well as the right level of tuning (gear dependent, of course).

I'm not sure what era you're referring to, or the exact point you're trying to make.

[Darsithis]

Then make it different content that is easier, if you want the harder content then you need to get better and by harder content I don't mean the same boss but he hits harder and makes more fire. From what I heard for many people that played in TBC, people still had fun raiding kara, the eye etc andaccepted they would never get to see BT or Sunwell

Except that defeats the point of everyone getting to see the content.

[Pizzakid2093]

World of Warcraft was at its best during WotLK, when 10-man raiding made its debut. In other words, aiming for smaller group content; dungeons were also hugely popular thanks to currency gearing as well as the right level of tuning (gear dependent, of course).

I'm not sure what era you're referring to, or the exact point you're trying to make.

wrath is exactly the point of the game where the growth slowed down to a stop by the end.

[kamikaze148]

Hmm, yes and no OP.

I do agree that having the unattainable to strive for was a good thing for the game. I never got to see Sunwell when it was relevant content, only made it as far as BT/TK progression in TBC, but boy did i envy those few players walking around in Sunwell gear, boy did i really want to become a better player to make it into a Sunwell raiding group. It gave me something to strive for, something to work towards. Having high milestones and achieving said milestones are a part of life, and generally leave the person feeling really good, like they have accomplished something worthwhile.

Having said that, the game has changed, and so has the playerbase. I havent played WoW since November last year, topped up again only 9 days ago as my girlfriends brother started to play and thought i would level an alt with him. And man have i forgot what a bunch of impatient and demanding gamers alot of WoW players tend to be. The culture tends to be one of getting shit done as fast as possible, no exceptions, whats in it for me?, where is my gear/tokens?. Not saying it wasnt like that in TBC, or Wrath, but there definitely is a diminished level of patience and milestone setting, and i think its something older players (me also) need to accept.

TlR; current model is profitable and fine. If you look at the game as a gear pinata for noobs thats what you will see, but then again if you find the right guild, and strive to clear Heroic mode raids etc then the game can still have a semblance of what it used to have for you.

[The Kao]

The game needs "noobs" to see the top players and think, I want to be like that some day!!

Except for the thing that this does rarely happen. The average "noob" turns tails and runs as soon as he or she is challenged, there are your 800k subs running. I'm rather playing with those that stick to the game and don't consume it like it was fast food, even if that means there are less to play with. A few millions is still enough to fill a raid for me.

[Vaerys]

wrath is exactly the point of the game where the growth slowed down to a stop by the end.

That's the same as a peak.

[Redasurc]

Many old player wont bother grinding new gear all over again, thats why timeless isle was a hearty welcome for many old burnt out raiders. If only gear would scale with level. Allso I would like to see some development tools so people can make their own 5 mans, scenarios or even raid. It would ofcorse have to be aproved by blizzard.

[Deleted]

World of Warcraft was at its best during WotLK, when 10-man raiding made its debut. In other words, aiming for smaller group content; dungeons were also hugely popular thanks to currency gearing as well as the right level of tuning (gear dependent, of course).

I'm not sure what era you're referring to, or the exact point you're trying to make.

10 man raiding starting in WOTLK???

Hmm, have you heard of one of the best raids, Teir 4, called Karazhan???
10 man only.

What about Zul'Aman brought in as the bridging teir i think between T5 & T6, that was also 10 man content.

Both of those were in TBC.

ZA had the timed challenge for a special mount (or if you got unlucky, a GM watching and turning your whole group in to Zoo Animals - happened to a guild run who were on course for the Amani War Bear (level 70 version - not 85))

WOTLK brought in the 10 or 25 man modes to enable different types of guilds to raid. Though right of the bat bringing in an old vanilla raid felt weak (to me).


Most of the people who played WOW at launch in the first 3 expansions have aged a lot since then, and even people coming in at Cata & MoP have as well, as you get older your time and responsibilities change, and for a lot they discovered the 2 biggest WoW killers known "Boobies & Beer" (or for women "Ballsacks and Booze").

Also lots of people have had other commitments such as family, work etc which erodes your playing time and the demographic of casual vs hardcore and how much you can commit to the challenges, I know that now being married with children I can no longer do the allnighter playing stints and grab 2 hours sleep before heading in to work, as I would come home after a week to bags on the front lawn and a letter from the lawyers asking for divorce proceedings.

Probably a lot of ramble there.

In terms of content it has got harder and easier at the same time, whilst the bosses and some of their mechanics have got harder, how you build your characters, bars etc has got easier, and there are more and more addons that seem to pop up to make a lot more of the playstyle etc easier as well.