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  1. #1

    How does mage PvP look in WOD so far?

    I'm leveling a mage, around 50 now and I really am digging the class, so much so I'm even beginning to think I may take him up first. Beyond the basics and what I know through PvP I don't know much about the class so I don't know how the changes are affecting it. As usual there is minimal PvP discussion in these forums so I'd like to hear some feedback. I know the mage class is finicky and subtle changes can make all the difference in PvP effectiveness. Frost still looks viable, but will it be the spec it is today more or less?

  2. #2
    Beta is so unbalanced at the moment in PvP that if you had the chance to play, you would want to roll a Warrior, Feral Druid, DK, Paladin or Rogue. Especially Warriors destroy almost every other class, criting for 150-170K in a health pool of 330K......

  3. #3
    The PvP is looking pretty bad. Way worse than live and getting worse with each build. Here's a few things they're removing from us/nerfing:

    - Cone of Cold removed from Fire
    - Nearly all forms of self healing (Ice Block glyph is pretty meh for a 5m cooldown)
    - Combustion no longer deals direct damage nor stuns; DoT only (40% of Ignite)
    - Deep Freeze is a stun that "may" BREAK ON DAMAGE.
    - Counterspell no longer blanket silences (to be fair, they pretty much removed all blanket silences)
    - Nether Tempest is now Arcane only; Living Bomb is back to being Fire only. Frost has 0 DoTs.
    -- Pretty much all of Frost relies on using Frostbolt for procs. Outside of Frostbolt, the only procs you get are FoFs from Orb and Welly's Freeze.
    - Alter Time is now a talent down from baseline. Temporal Shield is now removed.
    - Mirror Image is now a talent down from baseline.
    - Cone of Cold and Frost Nova had their cooldowns nerfed by 20% (2s/5s respectively)

    And the only buffs I've seen thus far:

    - Frostjaw no longer halves duration on players
    - Flameglow no longer capped (no one will still take it though)
    - Ice Nova supposedly stuns for 2s (but you lose Frost Nova. Also, if that's on the stun DR, that's really, really, bad)

    Of course, beta isn't final and I have a good feeling they might redo Deep Freeze because a stun that breaks on damage is so laughable.

    On the other hand, Mage PvE is looking better and better with each build.
    Last edited by Polarthief; 2014-07-16 at 11:16 AM.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  4. #4
    Deleted
    Frost damage is lackluster compared to melees, you rarely hit above 25k with ice lances where other classes just melt faces.
    However this is still beta so things will change eventually, so it's really hard to judge the class properly until the expansion is released.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by RestyPad View Post
    Frost damage is lackluster compared to melees, you rarely hit above 25k with ice lances where other classes just melt faces.
    However this is still beta so things will change eventually, so it's really hard to judge the class properly until the expansion is released.
    The numbers pass hasn't happened yet, obviously, so anything about raw damage is just pointless to talk about. Mechanics, however, we're incredibly lackluster in PvP.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  6. #6
    Scorch can be casted while moving, after casting Scorch your running speed is increased by 30% for 3 seconds

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Griffon View Post
    Scorch can be casted while moving, after casting Scorch your running speed is increased by 30% for 3 seconds
    Yes, our mobility is great (and even greater in WoD than in MoP!), but outside of our great mobility, our mechanics feel pretty lacking. I also don't know how they plan Frost to be viable without DF and with everything important tied to their cast-time filler, as well as Arcane having no presence in (serious) PvP due to having Arcane Blast be their only usable spell, and it being significantly weaker than AM and ABarr.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  8. #8
    If they add dispell protection to Fire procs, Fire would be quite good in PvP, Me thinks.. but as they will probably never do that, no Mage spec is looking good atm. But PvP balance is yet to come so if a class is lacking with all 3 specs, it's quite likely they are going to buff at least 1 to be competitive in PvP.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    If they add dispell protection to Fire procs, Fire would be quite good in PvP, Me thinks..
    Oh totally. That would make Fire worth a damn, but nope! All that setup for an amazing Combustion to be dispelled before it deals even one point of damage, especially now that the initial hit is zilch.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    But PvP balance is yet to come so if a class is lacking with all 3 specs, it's quite likely they are going to buff at least 1 to be competitive in PvP.
    It's already started since they already nerfed the hell out of Combustion (PvP-wise; don't start another riot, Fire PvE Mages!) and Deep Freeze. They simply cannot leave DF in its current state because it's a broken spell.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  10. #10
    It's funny to hear about warriors again, the new hunters I guess. I appreciate the feedback. I can't believe DF is so mediocre now, at least mobility is still solid... I can't imagine Blizz would let mages go into 6.0 broken or 2nd tier. Has that ever happened? I certainly can't recall.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulathar View Post
    It's funny to hear about warriors again, the new hunters I guess. I appreciate the feedback. I can't believe DF is so mediocre now, at least mobility is still solid... I can't imagine Blizz would let mages go into 6.0 broken or 2nd tier. Has that ever happened? I certainly can't recall.
    Strictly PvP-wise? We've always had one spec (Frost *coughcough*) viable for PvP. Arcane was at one point where you could ABL burst someone down in 3-5 ABLs. This is the first time we won't really have any specs viable (Fire being easily fixable by giving us dispel protection). I don't even know their intent for Frost. I'm guessing they want us doing the same thing we do in PvE, except it won't be easy due to needing to cast and get away from melee. DF has gone to near-worthless levels and need some serious changes.

    PvE-wise, the beginning of ToT (Tier 2 of MoP) was pretty lousy until they buffed our bomb damage.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    - Frostjaw no longer halves duration on players
    - Flameglow no longer capped (no one will still take it though)
    Finally got around to dueling a person. Frostjaw does still 4s on players. Flameglow is still capped 30%.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    Finally got around to dueling a person. Frostjaw does still 4s on players. Flameglow is still capped 30%.
    Guess it didn't make it in the patch. It was in the notes at some point. *shrug*

    Gotta love how they remove tooltips without actually changing the spell. Bug or intended?
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  14. #14
    Deleted
    Will the undisputed reign of mages since S1 finally be over? Stay tuned!

    In all seriousness, numbers have to be tweaked first before you can draw any conclusion.
    Mages lost a lot but so did everyone else so will just have to wait and see.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Porkisyum View Post
    In all seriousness, numbers have to be tweaked first before you can draw any conclusion.
    Mages lost a lot but so did everyone else so will just have to wait and see.
    This isn't even a matter of numbers, it's a matter of mechanics. Unless we're gonna get a huge buff to our damage (and I'm talking a ludicrous buff), we're not gonna be represented well in PvP.

    - Arcane has never really had good PvP playability. ABL isn't the spammable behemoth it once was, and this trend continues into WoD.
    - Fire has the best bet currently, despite having 0 dispel protection. Dat Scorch, yo.
    - Frost fell tremendously, losing BF proccing from DoTs, so our only procs now is FoF from Freeze and Frozen Orb if we don't get to Frostbolt. In addition, Deep Freeze is pretty much worthless for damage now (since you need a FoF anyways; why would you bother using it for damage?).
    Last edited by Polarthief; 2014-07-17 at 07:50 PM.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Guess it didn't make it in the patch. It was in the notes at some point. *shrug*

    Gotta love how they remove tooltips without actually changing the spell. Bug or intended?
    They've done that with almost every tooltip in the game now they removed vital information from the tooltips and made them all list only basic things like this does dmg or this roots and nothing else.

  17. #17
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    - Arcane has never really had good PvP playability. ABL isn't the spammable behemoth it once was, and this trend continues into WoD.
    - Fire has the best bet currently, despite having 0 dispel protection. Dat Scorch, yo.
    - Frost fell tremendously, losing BF proccing from DoTs, so our only procs now is FoF from Freeze and Frozen Orb if we don't get to Frostbolt. In addition, Deep Freeze is pretty much worthless for damage now (since you need a FoF anyways; why would you bother using it for damage?).
    Arcane has been viable in several seasons while frost was aswell, skill required was just way higher and required a specific setup.
    Frost you actually might have to stand still and cast frostbolts for once wich is a nice change of pase from being able to relly for 90% on instants.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    They've done that with almost every tooltip in the game now they removed vital information from the tooltips and made them all list only basic things like this does dmg or this roots and nothing else.
    There's a reason we have "Enhanced Tooltips" default to off. There was literally no benefit to removing this from the tooltip.

    Quote Originally Posted by Porkisyum View Post
    Arcane has been viable in several seasons while frost was aswell, skill required was just way higher and required a specific setup.
    Frost you actually might have to stand still and cast frostbolts for once wich is a nice change of pase from being able to relly for 90% on instants.
    Frost has been every season ever. Arcane I really don't remember it being all that viable outside of "burst someone down instantly" mode, but if you say so *shrug*.
    It's seeming like that with the nerf to DF and how BF is now from FB and not DoTs. Hopefully we'll be able to though.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  19. #19
    Not to mention that we dont really get to choose most of our talents:

    T1-> Blazing speed. (evanescence replaces ice block, which is a must in pvp especially now that it heals)
    T2-> Ice Barrier. (Alter time lasts 30secs so it will get dispelled 100% of the times. On the other hand, I foresee some cool RBG matches if we are still able to AT, grab flag, AT back XDD)
    T3-> This one didnt change, did it? RoF/FJ depending on comp
    T4-> Cold Snap, as always
    T5-> Probably Frost Bomb, we have enough roots to spec for an extra nova
    T6-> Mirror images or the passive IW (I personally think a burst talent will be way more useful, but if the images´ AI is like wellys I can see the passive being an option)
    T7-> Falling Stars 100% (does shitty damage on beta and half of the attack can be dodged but hey, it could have been worse I guess)

    On the other hand, mobility looks quite OP, specially being able to reset blink with frost nova (btw, does someone know if ice nova resets blink too?)

  20. #20
    Herald of the Titans Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrayFrost View Post
    (btw, does someone know if ice nova resets blink too?)
    It doesn't.

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