[7.3] Azortharion's Hunter Guides

[lucasriosfg]

Is there a mastery cap for BM? Im at 95% mastery but only 6% haste, should i worry?

[Deleted]

I noticed the part "wait for 50 Focus before you use SW" in the guide is gone, is this to simplify things or is it that unimportant to wait for Focus before SW?

[Naiker]

I noticed the part "wait for 50 Focus before you use SW" in the guide is gone, is this to simplify things or is it that unimportant to wait for Focus before SW?

I think you meant to say Windburst, that's what he posted on the changelog: "Vastly simplified Windburst usage since thinking about it too hard is not really going to be noticeably beneficial"

[Deleted]

I think you meant to say Windburst, that's what he posted on the changelog: "Vastly simplified Windburst usage since thinking about it too hard is not really going to be noticeably beneficial"

Yes I saw that but I'm pretty sure it said 50 Focus before SW too which makes sense because you can make the most out of the vulnerable buff if you have enough Focus, that's why I'm wondering why it was changed.

[Kwaai]

Yes I saw that but I'm pretty sure it said 50 Focus before SW too which makes sense because you can make the most out of the vulnerable buff if you have enough Focus, that's why I'm wondering why it was changed.

It takes almost 5 seconds to regenerate enough focus for a single Aimed Shot, and you probably don't ever want to sit on Marking Targets for that long to get another AiS.

It's also important to consider that after a Sidewinders cast you'll *always* have enough Focus for at least AiS>MS.

[Deleted]

Azortharion, I have some questions regarding the MM rotation following the changes in your guide because at the moment, in some situations I only use my instinct to chose what to do but I don’t really trust it !

- Marked Shot is the priority number one (with a condition: cast it if you can’t cast an AiS before the end of vulnerable) and then Barrage.

ð Should I prioritize Barrage over Marked Shot if vulnerable is up and will still be up at the end of Barrage for a buffed Marked shot and prioritize Marked Shot over Barrage if vulnerable if about to drop?

ð When you say cast an AiS before the end of vulnerable, does that imply as well that there will be enough time to cast a buffed Marked shot? To say it differently, should we avoid casting Marked Shot without the vulnerable buff (like for AiS)?



- 3rd priority is now Windburst: Cast Windburst on cooldown

ð Same question as for Barrage, if vulnerable will still be up after casting Windburst, should I delay Marked Shot?

ð So now according to the guide, even if vulnerable is up, we prioritize Windburst over AiS?

- Sidewinders should be cast without Marking Targets only if it reaches 2 charges, but what if I know that by waiting too long, I will lose focus (I’m already over 100 for instance) so I won’t benefit fully from the 50 focus gain: I will be focus capped as soon as I cast Sidewinders, I will lose part of the benefit and I will lose even more focus regen during the AiS cast as I’m already focus capped. Shouldn’t I anticipate that or is it way more important to optimize the marking targets buff?



- Another situation which happens to me very often: I cast a Barrage for instance and I’m quite low in focus then I cast Sidewinders with Marking Targets, then a AiS then a Marked Shot and generally I have enough focus left only for one AiS, not being able to fully use the vulnerable buff.

ð Should I have waited a little bit before casting Sidewinders to have more focus to spend on AiS during the vulnerable Buff? My fear is that by not using Sidewinders as soon as possible I could lose another Marking Targets buff…

- I see a lot of discussion between SW>AiS>MS>AiS>AiS or SW>AiS>AiS>MS>AiS but

ð Isn’t SW>AiS>MS>AiS>AiS just better because of the crit buff after MS?

ð SW>AiS>AiS>MS>AiS allows us to have a better vulnerable buff uptime but I don’t really see the point as I don’t have enough focus (without cooldown) to cast a 4th AiS so at the end of the day the better vulnerable buff uptime doesn’t really help me. Do I miss something?

That’s a lot of question but MM rotation is a little bit more difficult/tricky than it may look at first glance: There are a lot of different situations you have to react to…

[Hydrant]

Returning to stat weight theme again

I've started leveling my second toon, panda enhancement shaman and found a funny point: stat priority in bm and enh are just the same. But what caught my eye is an interesting comment in Furty's guide on icy-veins. Here it is:

"Mastery and Haste scale in synergy with each other, and as you attain higher levels of Mastery the value of Haste will start to inflate again. You should try and keep your Haste rating around 60-65% of your total Mastery rating for optimal scaling."

I do understand the difference in bm and enh mechanics but maybe someone have any ideas on haste/mastery combination to form a "sweet spot"? Right after Azor's previous comment I've obtained a nice 840 trinket with flat agility-haste bonus and replaced my heroic horn of valor with it. Of course it's Hard to notice some objective difference, but I'm sure that dps haven't changed ultimately.

Thanks in advance.

[Azortharion]

Azortharion, I have some questions regarding the MM rotation following the changes in your guide because at the moment, in some situations I only use my instinct to chose what to do but I don’t really trust it !

- Marked Shot is the priority number one (with a condition: cast it if you can’t cast an AiS before the end of vulnerable) and then Barrage.

ð Should I prioritize Barrage over Marked Shot if vulnerable is up and will still be up at the end of Barrage for a buffed Marked shot and prioritize Marked Shot over Barrage if vulnerable if about to drop?

ð When you say cast an AiS before the end of vulnerable, does that imply as well that there will be enough time to cast a buffed Marked shot? To say it differently, should we avoid casting Marked Shot without the vulnerable buff (like for AiS)?



- 3rd priority is now Windburst: Cast Windburst on cooldown

ð Same question as for Barrage, if vulnerable will still be up after casting Windburst, should I delay Marked Shot?

ð So now according to the guide, even if vulnerable is up, we prioritize Windburst over AiS?

- Sidewinders should be cast without Marking Targets only if it reaches 2 charges, but what if I know that by waiting too long, I will lose focus (I’m already over 100 for instance) so I won’t benefit fully from the 50 focus gain: I will be focus capped as soon as I cast Sidewinders, I will lose part of the benefit and I will lose even more focus regen during the AiS cast as I’m already focus capped. Shouldn’t I anticipate that or is it way more important to optimize the marking targets buff?



- Another situation which happens to me very often: I cast a Barrage for instance and I’m quite low in focus then I cast Sidewinders with Marking Targets, then a AiS then a Marked Shot and generally I have enough focus left only for one AiS, not being able to fully use the vulnerable buff.

ð Should I have waited a little bit before casting Sidewinders to have more focus to spend on AiS during the vulnerable Buff? My fear is that by not using Sidewinders as soon as possible I could lose another Marking Targets buff…

- I see a lot of discussion between SW>AiS>MS>AiS>AiS or SW>AiS>AiS>MS>AiS but

ð Isn’t SW>AiS>MS>AiS>AiS just better because of the crit buff after MS?

ð SW>AiS>AiS>MS>AiS allows us to have a better vulnerable buff uptime but I don’t really see the point as I don’t have enough focus (without cooldown) to cast a 4th AiS so at the end of the day the better vulnerable buff uptime doesn’t really help me. Do I miss something?

That’s a lot of question but MM rotation is a little bit more difficult/tricky than it may look at first glance: There are a lot of different situations you have to react to…

The crit buff after MS (Marked for Death) is built into Vulnerable, its tooltip is incorrect.

I have submitted a change to the guide that will clarify most of these points.

[Deleted]

The crit buff after MS (Marked for Death) is built into Vulnerable, its tooltip is incorrect.

I have submitted a change to the guide that will clarify most of these points.

Thx a lot for your answer and the updated guide!

Regarding the Marked to Death buff, you mean that when we cast MS, the bonus is embedied in the vulnerable buff.

And I understand that when I wait for Marking Targets to proc, I should use AiS as a focus dumper if I m about to hit the focus cap!

Thx!

[Smog]

@Azortharion I think there is a small typo in your newest rotation submission

3. Cast Aimed Shot if you can cast it before Vulnerable will expire from the target. This also functions as a focus dump to stay off focus cap, even if Vulnerable isn't up. If you are casting Marked Shot late in your Vulnerabled debuff, you should make sure that you can fit in a Marked Shot afterwards as well.

Fairly sure that bolded Marked Shot is supposed to be Aimed Shot.

[marmil]

Can someone clear stat priority for please for both BM and MM

Noxxic says : Agility > Mastery > Crit > Versatility > Haste
Icy veins : Agility > Mastery > Haste > Critical > Versa

[Smog]

Can someone clear stat priority for please for both BM and MM

Noxxic says : Agility > Mastery > Crit > Versatility > Haste
Icy veins : Agility > Mastery > Haste > Critical > Versa

Never listen to Noxxic for any game, for any class, for any spec, ever.

There you go.

[Youn]

It's not like there is a drastic difference between the two:

Azorathian
( Pawn: v1: "Azor-Marksmanship": CritRating=5.98, Agility=9.29, HasteRating=6.18, MasteryRating=7.81, Versatility=5.65, Dps=33.39, RangedDps=33.39 )
( Pawn: v1: "Azor-BeastMastery": CritRating=5.9, Agility=10.72, HasteRating=6.36, MasteryRating=7.58, Versatility=5.34, Dps=4.92, RangedDps=4.92 )
( Pawn: v1: "Azor-Survival": CritRating=0.62, Agility=1, HasteRating=0.56, MasteryRating=0.58, Versatility=0.68, Dps=1.12, MeleeDps=1.12 )

Noxxic
( Pawn: v1: "Noxxic-Marksmanship": CritRating=3.07, MasteryRating=7.57, Agility=9.07, HasteRating=6.07, Versatility=4.57 )
( Pawn: v1: "Noxxic-BeastMastery": CritRating=6.03, MasteryRating=7.53, Agility=9.03, HasteRating=3.03, Versatility=4.53 )
( Pawn: v1: "Noxxic-Survival": CritRating=6.06, MasteryRating=3.06, Agility=9.06, HasteRating=4.56, Versatility=7.56 )

[Sartuk]

It's not like there is a drastic difference between the two:

Azorathian
( Pawn: v1: "Azor-Marksmanship": CritRating=5.98, Agility=9.29, HasteRating=6.18, MasteryRating=7.81, Versatility=5.65, Dps=33.39, RangedDps=33.39 )
( Pawn: v1: "Azor-BeastMastery": CritRating=5.9, Agility=10.72, HasteRating=6.36, MasteryRating=7.58, Versatility=5.34, Dps=4.92, RangedDps=4.92 )
( Pawn: v1: "Azor-Survival": CritRating=0.62, Agility=1, HasteRating=0.56, MasteryRating=0.58, Versatility=0.68, Dps=1.12, MeleeDps=1.12 )

Noxxic
( Pawn: v1: "Noxxic-Marksmanship": CritRating=3.07, MasteryRating=7.57, Agility=9.07, HasteRating=6.07, Versatility=4.57 )
( Pawn: v1: "Noxxic-BeastMastery": CritRating=6.03, MasteryRating=7.53, Agility=9.03, HasteRating=3.03, Versatility=4.53 )
( Pawn: v1: "Noxxic-Survival": CritRating=6.06, MasteryRating=3.06, Agility=9.06, HasteRating=4.56, Versatility=7.56 )

With all due respect, you're wrong: those are MASSIVE differences in regards to crit for Marksman. Noxxic values crit about half as much as Azor does. That's the only major MM difference, but that's a MAJOR difference. For BM, the same is true of haste: Noxxic sees that as less than half as valuable as Azor does, which again is a HUGE difference. Yeah the other ones are close, but to be that far off for those two stats does make me wonder a bit.

[Zantos]

So, is there a pet that is considered the best for dps for BM hunters? I have just been using spirit beasts because of the heal they have.

[Youn]

Remember that the person doing sims has modified the rotation and possibly taken the simulationcraft after a patch has been done to it. There is no telling when each did their testing. Azor tries to keep his upto date. If Noxxic has theirs even a few days out of date. It becomes useless for purposes of sims. Generally, you are safe going Mastery/Haste for Marks and avoiding the other two stats as much as possible. And since, it's possible to dictate what your pre-raid gear is. Why isn't it all Mastery/Haste?

[Smog]

So, is there a pet that is considered the best for dps for BM hunters? I have just been using spirit beasts because of the heal they have.

There is no best pet. Use whatever provides something your group needs, like Lust or Battle Res, and spec it Ferocity.

[Azortharion]

Noxxic is a joke, even discussing how fucking terrible their site is would be giving them more publicity than they deserve.

[Zantos]

There is no best pet. Use whatever provides something your group needs, like Lust or Battle Res, and spec it Ferocity.

Do we know by how much more MM will out dps BM? I already had to go ranged due to having too many melee. What about this?

[Smog]

Do we know by how much more MM will out dps BM? I already had to go ranged due to having too many melee. What about this?

This has been discussed at great lengths ad nauseum throughout this forum and thread; I am not going to summarize it for you. Do the legwork and research if you want the information, man.