Can you really say WoW is dying?

[Daedius]

WoW will never be what it once was in it's peak, during WotLK... but it's STILL doing strong --- almost 7m, PAYING SUBSCRIBERS I might add... not free loaders off F2P's, for a decade old game is still pretty damn impressive.

Numbers will surge again for WoD - probably more so than MoP due to TBC fans wanting to revisit familiar zones.

But the game is simply too old and people who've never played it at very unlikely to jump in due to graphics and/or being waaaaaaaaaaaaaay behind putting them off with 5 expansions in.

[Varabently]

It's dying since it's losing subs, but it's still alive relative to the amount of money it makes. Just because they are losing subs doesn't mean they are losing money.

Store pets/mounts, transfers, etc. could all be way up. That's really how you have to judge a game. The health isn't necessarily the number of players. In banking, you don't want some customers (those who have poor credit for example). They are undesirables. There could be undesirable players that leave, which cost Blizz more than they bring in. Not saying blizz looks at players like this, but they might.

If they can cut down expenses and make more money, despite less subs, then the game is thriving TBH. As long as they aren't in danger of shutting the game down, then it's not dying.

[Pann]

You understand that they are legally required to report their revenue accurately as a public company, right? They're not allowed to just lie about it. People go to jail for that.

Yes I do and if you read the actual figures that have been reported you see that they are not really up. I have explained this about two hundred and thirty-seven times over the past few days so I am not going to do it again if you are really interested the thread about the store and less pressure to create content has an explanation on pretty much every other page.

[fixx]

There is a huge difference between someone who creates a free account and someone who subscribes.

Not for this discussion.

Creating free account and not turning into paid customer (which was really close in my case) would've been lost sale. You can count every person who created account, tried the freebie game and uninstalled the crap during TBC as a person who hated the expansion, just like you can count every person who had recurring sub and cancelled it as somebody who hated the expansion.

The important bit for the discussion we were having and you're trying desperately to derail is that every single day all the way from vanilla to yesterday on average around 28k people decided WoW is shit and not worth their money and only lately there's been less new players coming in to replace those than in the early days.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes I do and if you read the actual figures that have been reported you see that they are not really up. I have explained this about two hundred and thirty-seven times over the past few days so I am not going to do it again if you are really interested the thread about the store and less pressure to create content has an explanation on pretty much every other page.

Link it then, or are you afraid being proven wrong?

[Pann]

Because it's incredibly stupid to use the word "dying" when talking about something that's not going to happen for another 7-10 years. That's like telling someone your kid is dying and when they freak out you go "Oh, calm down. I just meant of old age eventually."

WOW is not a child and nor is there anything to say that a regularly updated product must decline due age.

[Donald Hellscream]

Well yes it is dying but thats the nature of a game this old, there will always be subscription drops during a content drought, granted the drops have been quite significant in cata and MoP but they will rise again and then subsequently fall once a content drought begins in WoD.

[Radish Spirit]

Yes I do and if you read the actual figures that have been reported you see that they are not really up. I have explained this about two hundred and thirty-seven times over the past few days so I am not going to do it again

Maybe you've had to explain it so many times because you're wrong? Year on year revenue is up as reported. They said it on the earnings call. They're not allowed to lie about that.

if you are really interested the thread about the store and less pressure to create content

Oh, I'm super not. 10 seconds of thoughtful reflection tells me what a ridiculous suggestion this is. I don't need to participate in a 21 page circlejerk about it, thanks for the offer though.

[Pann]

Not for this discussion.

Creating free account and not turning into paid customer (which was really close in my case) would've been lost sale. You can count every person who created account, tried the freebie game and uninstalled the crap during TBC as a person who hated the expansion, just like you can count every person who had recurring sub and cancelled it as somebody who hated the expansion.

The important bit for the discussion we were having and you're trying desperately to derail is that every single day all the way from vanilla to yesterday on average around 28k people decided WoW is shit and not worth their money and only lately there's been less new players coming in to replace those than in the early days.

Of course it is, you cannot run a business on who looks through the shop window.

Link it then, or are you afraid being proven wrong?

This is the first of many time I explained.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post28739230

That is just marketing guff, it relates to non-GAAP revenue which includes roughly half a million pre-orders the sales for the expansion are deferred to the quarter when they are actually sold, think of it as an advance on your wages, in the GAAP revenue which is 16% down on the previous year.

[Hb]

wiht a 6million sub loss i think u can

[Radish Spirit]

WOW is not a child

Uhh, thanks. What kind of response is that. Do you understand how analogies work?

nor is there anything to say that a regularly updated product must decline due age.

Yes, nothing at all except the entire breadth of history that tells us every single product that has ever existed of this type declines with age.

You know, that.

Seriously dude?

[Lora]

Nope. You can say it's declining, but not dying. It's not alive

[Radish Spirit]

That is just marketing guff, it relates to non-GAAP revenue which includes roughly half a million pre-orders the sales for the expansion are deferred to the quarter when they are actually sold, think of it as an advance on your wages, in the GAAP revenue which is 16% down on the previous year.

Yes, and when people refer to revenue they are talking about non-GAAP. This is how all earnings are reported and it's what investors pay attention to. The fact that you're focusing on GAAP to prove your point when nobody else cares about it is kind of telling don't you think?

[Pann]

Uhh, thanks. What kind of response is that. Do you understand how analogies work?

No?

Yes, nothing at all except the entire breadth of history that tells us every single product that has ever existed of this type declines with age.

You know, that.

Seriously dude?

Is this another of your analogies?

[Deleted]

I think it is a case of Blizzard having little idea how to keep it alive rather than deciding to kill it.

My main concern is they forget that many of their players are burned out. And that every questionable decision could be the final straw.

They remove and change everything just based on their own agenda, and dont look on their players.

Like a bull in a china shop.

[Pann]

Yes, and when people refer to revenue they are talking about non-GAAP. This is how all earnings are reported and it's what investors pay attention to. The fact that you're focusing on GAAP to prove your point when nobody else cares about it is kind of telling don't you think?

Only by people that don't know what they are talking about. No they are not hence the name; Generally Accepted Accounting Principles - the clue is the generally accepted bit. It tells me you are wrong and don't know what you're talking about.

- - - Updated - - -

My main concern is they forget that many of their players are burned out. And that every questionable decision could be the final straw.

They remove and change everything just based on their own agenda, and dont look on their players.

Like a bull in a china shop.

To be honest I think developer burnout is just as big of an issue as player burnout. They seem to be constantly looking to the past for answers rather than the future not only has gaming moved on since WOW's launch so has the player base but seems that Blizzard is unwilling to grow up with them.

[willowe]

I can say whatever I want, doesn't make it valid.

World of Warcraft has three superfluous nipples. It's like WoW Dying.....

Besides, if WoW is dying, all other MMOs must be so dead it's not even funny.

[Spike`]

For me WOTLK was the peak because it had the most know and captivating story to many players, the Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne.

After WOTLK the story of the Cataclysm has been meh and MoP upped a bit but not by much and now with WOD really dont know yet, didn't cativated me yet

So in the end is the great story that drives me and many wow players, Blizzard has to bring that back and they are trying with WOD to bring back old players, lets see... but after WOD if they bring a Burning Legion expansion they will bring many back, even more if appears (even in some weak form) Sargeras

they have the material to do it, its what everybody is wanting for, a legion expansion

[Radish Spirit]

Only by people that don't know what they are talking about. No they are not hence the name; Generally Accepted Accounting Principles - the clue is the generally accepted bit. It tells me you are wrong and don't know what you're talking about.

Yes, you're absolutely right. I'm sorry. It's totally unusual for companies to report non-GAAP revenue to give investors a better sense of their true earnings. That's, like, not something that every single publicly traded company in the entire fucking world does every single day.

http://www.microsoft.com/investor/Ea...4/default.aspx
http://techcrunch.com/2014/07/31/tes...-of-7579-cars/
http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-...05-904750.html
http://blogs.wsj.com/cfo/2013/06/25/...are-exploding/
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101884923
http://investor.ea.com/releases.cfm?...sType=Earnings
http://www.lionbridge.com/lionbridge...gaap-eps-0-12/

etc., etc., etc.

[Pann]

Yes, you're absolutely right. I'm sorry. It's totally unusual for companies to report non-GAAP revenue to give investors a better sense of their true earnings. That's, like, not something that every single publicly traded company in the entire fucking world does every single day.

http://www.microsoft.com/investor/Ea...4/default.aspx
http://techcrunch.com/2014/07/31/tes...-of-7579-cars/
http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-...05-904750.html
http://blogs.wsj.com/cfo/2013/06/25/...are-exploding/
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101884923
http://investor.ea.com/releases.cfm?...sType=Earnings
http://www.lionbridge.com/lionbridge...gaap-eps-0-12/

etc., etc., etc.

Of course it is not unusual to report non-GAAP numbers, it can be an important indicator as to the health of a company, however that was not your claim.

[Deleted]