I don't blame Gul'Dan for his actions.

[Deleted]

I don't blame him either

I'd sell you all out to join the Legion.

[wariofan1]

Eh, I like villains too, but I don't admire them. Gul'dan is a really great villain, and without a doubt the best one we'll have had in WoW yet (unless they butcher him like Deathwing), and he can certainly take the expansion exciting places. But admire him? Just because you can see things from his perspective doesn't mean you should identify with them really.

[Deleted]

lol he's the only one who drank the demonblood.
~times change, brah *in garrosh voice*

Gul'Dan didn't drink the demon blood. The lore says Hellscream drank first. Gul'dan has green skin from the exposure to the fel magic he was dabbling in.

[Paula Deen]

I legit feel sorry for Gul'Dan in WoD, he looks so defeated in that Cinematic and when you first meet him ingame.... its even worse

[Number1gentleman]

It is actually implied that Gul'dan drank the demon blood


https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms...6310705908.pdf


In "The Stranger" comic released by Blizzard not long ago, Garrosh walks in on Gul'dan with green liquid spilled on the floor and picks up the chalice from which Gul'dan drank the demon blood (The very same chalice Gul'dan offers Grom in the cinematic) and watches as Gul'dan slowly turns green.

thanks! that's really interesting. I just read something from wowwiki said that :

"The ultimate manifestation of the demonic arcane on Azeroth is fel (aka fel energy or fel magic). This energy, which most commonly manifests itself as ghastly, green-yellow flame, is arcane magic at its most corrupt, for it employs the blood of demons."

"Fel magic is pure arcane; it resides in the blood of demons."

"Prolongued use of fel magic may corrupt the users. It seems that fel magic has a tendency of turning users and those that spend enough time in the presence of those users into a more uniform demonic form: large claws, red tented skin, horns, fangs, etc." (not green?) I think I've seen some orcs with red skins, cant remember where though. Hellfire peninsula? or ramparts *shrugs*

"Examples of this transformation are the orcs."

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Gul'Dan didn't drink the demon blood. The lore says Hellscream drank first. Gul'dan has green skin from the exposure to the fel magic he was dabbling in.

Incorrdct; Gul'dan was actually the first, in both the MU and the AU. Grom was the first orc outside the Shadow Council to drink in the MU .

[Deleted]

No Gul'dan and his crazy visions of destiny = NO warcraft story whatsoever. I don't blame him just as I don't blame Sargeras for going insane because the whole story is great.

I always thought Gromm was kind of an idiot for drinking the blood without listening to others or thinking of a different way out. Gul'dan is just that old fart who wants power but gets killed first in every scenario.

[KrazyK923]

Except in the alternate universe he sided with the Iron Horde to save his people.
In the main universe he tried to back out of helping the Legion when he realized what the true price they had to pay was.

Oh good lets re-litigate this topic. You're forgetting some of the important bits which show Ner'zhul isn't nearly as cool of a dude as you're pretending he was.

In WoD he breaks a taboo and uses a forbidden magic which requires the sacrifice of souls to empower. And he ends up using a shitload of Draenei and Orc souls. And this whole ridiculous notion of he did it to save his people is absurd. Even the own game shows how stupid that logic is. Rulkan and her group totally refuse to join the Iron Horde or use the Dark Star. If he had half the balls of his mate, he would have done the same thing with their entire clan instead of turn around and start fucking over the Draenei. But Ner'zhul is a power hungry asshole.

Just like in our universe! He totally is willing to go along with what "Rulkan" tells him the second "she" mentions that he'll be the revered leader and savior of the Orcs. The story explicitly mentions that Ner'zhul was planning on getting the power he always wanted. The dude was an anti-hero, at best, at the beginning of his story. By the end he's just another villain.

Like I said, all the whitewashing. I always find it funny people can't just accept a character for what they are, and instead apply what they think it should be because they like them. I used to sarcastically say that Gul'dan is not really a bad guy and just is misunderstood, but then this thread happened. I dont even know what ridiculous statement I could exchange it for. Somebody else already made the "Sargeras is misunderstood" thread, and I'm pretty sure that same person made the "Old Gods are misunderstood" thread.

Uhhhh who can be sarcastically proclaimed to be misunderstood but blatantly isn't. Arthas is out, Sylvanas is out, ummmm. Varimathras! Varimathras was just totally misunderstood guys, really. He wasn't trying to overthrow Sylvanas, he just wanted to plan a surprise birthday party for her, but first needed to make sure she or her friends weren't in the city!

[Ciddy]

Gul'Dan went beyond simply leading his people on a campiagn of multiple genocides. Plenty of baddies in WoW, and even in real life have done that. He took another step on the dark path, one that even some of the most evil characters and people would not take. He literally damned his own species to slavery and eternal mental anguish.

Many evil rulers at least in part, do what they do for the overall good of their people. Everything that Gul'dan did was for himself.

Now Ner'zhul on the other hand... That is a character you can have sympathy with. He did many, many bad things, but in the beginning he was tricked, he did not do what he did just to make himself greater. He legitimately thought he was doing what was best for Orc kind.

Yeah, this. Gul'dan knew exactly what he was doing, and he didn't lose any sleep over it.

Ner'zhul at least had to be tricked, and he even did something about it by sending Durotan that warning letter (an action that likely saved the Orc race) once he realized it. Even Kil'jaeden remarked that no trickery was necessary with Gul'dan, since he had no problems selling his people into slavery for personal gain. Of course, Ner'zhul eventually got past that point and became more like Gul'dan, but that was later down the road.

[DeleteThisUser]

I'm not blaming Gul'dan, but I'm hoping Mannoroth didn't die in the trailer.

[Mage of Rage]

Gul'dan is worse than Arthas.
Arthas destroyed a kingdom - Gul'dan destroyed an entire people and doomed a planet.

[mickybrighteyes]

]He would kill his grandma if it meant getting +10% power[/B]. Oh yes, I will blame him for destroying pretty much everything he touches. But that's cool because hes awesome <3.

many gamers seem to feel the same. They will ruin guilds for that one upgrade

[Quakecanada]

Gul'dan is worse than Arthas.
Arthas destroyed a kingdom - Gul'dan destroyed an entire people and doomed a planet.

LOVE ARTHAS .... LOVE WOTLK .... Gul'dan is cool cause he is an orc .... Strength!

[Deletedaccount1]

The whole idea of an alternate universe where they don't drink the blood rubs me the wrong way, I never really understood why people said things like "WoW killed the lore" until this expansion.

I always thought that WoW diluted it by making all the major characters sit around in their keep but up until now, I don't think WoW actually went back and intruded on the previous Warcraft games quite like this. The Grommash retribution story is really amazing to me and how he redeems the Orcs is perhaps the best writing in the entire series and it makes me always think of Grom as being a good guy in the end.

When I heard he was going to be the main antagonist it just didn't fit because the whole idea of the Orcs was that they were mostly peaceful before they drank the blood, but WoD says "No they were always asshole conquerors except now their eyes don't glow red" and it seemed like the team were retreading the lore just to pander to older fans but for me it did quite the opposite.

I really hope WoD has some amazing writing and a solid plot because making Grom the bad guy just doesn't sit right with me, that is Gul'Dan's job but instead in the cinematic he appears weak and hopeless as if we are supposed to pity him but in the older Warcraft games hes an absolute maniac who wants to use demonic magic to destroy everything in his path.

To me the story of WoD just doesn't make sense.

[Deleted]

He tried to sell the orcish race into slavery of a demonic army. There's not many ways to spin that to make him seem like the good guy.

Though I must say I want to join the Iron Horde after that cinematic.

I think this shows how good storytelling should be. It's easy and mainstream if you hate the ultimate baddie like Garrosh in MoP because every action he did, was considered inherently evil. But actually liking and rooting for the guys that are supposed to be the baddies is a sign of well thought character development.

[ryanmahaffe]

I like cupcakes very much

[Deleted]

He tried to sell the orcish race into slavery of a demonic army.

So, what's the problem here? :^)

[Arrowstormen]

Gul'dan was a power-hungry bastard who met his doom and the doom of his entire race because he time and time again was greedy for power and pursued that at the cost of his own people.

[Magpai]

To summarize this thread: Sociopaths admiring a successful sociopath.

[Theatre]

Guldan did nothing wrong.