Are you happy with the current design for Demonic Servitude?

[Deleted]

This talent right now is about utility, because numbers wise, it's awfull.

So i'm gonna focus on the utility.

The Doomguard SLOW should NOT be channeled. It should be a curse like exaustion was, IMO.
The Doomguard ROOT should be channeled, but should not break on damage. Of course, for pvp it would be a 4 second root, but there's a lot worse out there. And let's face it, we are the worse caster in PVP right now, it's needed. SOMETHING IS!!

Infernal needs to have either higher armor, or higher damage reduction. Voidwalker tanks more than Infernal does (and actually, they both sucks compared to mists), and if you're afflic, it does a better job at it while dpsing too.

Yeah tanking pets need a small buff, and it would be very cool if the Infernal and Doomguard wouldn't replace our currently active pet but fight together with it so we would end up with two pets. Having two active pets would be so cool.

[Durantye]

The dps from our 10-minute has never been very good, I don't like the spell itself so as you can imagine I am not gonna enjoy a talent about it Just feels boring and uninteresting, same damn demon just doesn't go away, he is actually less interactive of a demon than the felguard. Of course this talent is nothing compared to my hatred for charred remains.

[Xag]

Im actually a bit curious. Is there someone awesome at math that could figure out how much harder the DS demons would need to hit to = our normal pet + 10m cd? Due to the short duration our 10m CD demons are out, it might not even need to be that much more due to having them over the course of a fight.

[threads]

Should just be replaced with something useful.

[Brusalk]

Im actually a bit curious. Is there someone awesome at math that could figure out how much harder the DS demons would need to hit to = our normal pet + 10m cd? Due to the short duration our 10m CD demons are out, it might not even need to be that much more due to having them over the course of a fight.

Doomguard does about 800k in one use. That means in order to be equal, DServ Doomguard needs to do 800k more than a normal pet over 10 minutes. That means 1333 DPS over the normal pets in Live numbers.

Using official Demonology simc numbers, Felguard does 62438 DPS. An increase of 1333 DPS over 62k is about a 2% increase in pet damage to compensate for the loss of the Guardian CD.

[Xag]

Should just be replaced with something useful.

As should MF. I have not used that talent once since the ToT patch.

Its too late for them to replace it so we might as well try to get them to make it useful. I like the idea of it but they really need to do more damage than regular pets.

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Doomguard does about 800k in one use. That means in order to be equal, DServ Doomguard needs to do 800k more than a normal pet over 10 minutes. That means 1333 DPS over the normal pets in Live numbers.

Using official Demonology simc numbers, Felguard does 62438 DPS. An increase of 1333 DPS over 62k is about a 2% increase in pet damage to compensate for the loss of the Guardian CD.

Ty for this. At equal damage at least it wouldnt be a trap talent necessarily. I would think you would want them to do a bit more otherwise keeping the 10m CD and regular pet with Cata or CR would come out on top.

[Orloth]

To my thinking, it should be at least a 10-20% increase over the default minions. It still needs to compete with CR and Cata.

[Athens]

To my thinking, it should be at least a 10-20% increase over the default minions. It still needs to compete with CR and Cata.

Why? It is a passive talent and therefore should be less powerful than the active options. With this in mind, if the current active talents give an increase of 5% or so (i think this is the running amount but i could very well be wrong) then and increase of 5% on current pets would be all that's needed. This would give us the 2% needed to make them even with current pets, a bit more to have a reason to pick it up but would still be lower than the other talents.

[Prada]

Doomguard does about 800k in one use. That means in order to be equal, DServ Doomguard needs to do 800k more than a normal pet over 10 minutes. That means 1333 DPS over the normal pets in Live numbers.

Using official Demonology simc numbers, Felguard does 62438 DPS. An increase of 1333 DPS over 62k is about a 2% increase in pet damage to compensate for the loss of the Guardian CD.

I strongly believe that if the new permanent pets will merely do enough damage to match up with current pet plus guardian cooldown, we would all be better off having normal pet, guardian cd PLUS cataclysm (or the other variable one).
Therefore, for demonic servitude to make sense it has to:
- provide enough dps to match normal pet + guardian cooldown
- provide additional dps to compare to the other 2 talents
- retain the minions' unique spells (doombolt extra dmg at 20% hp and infernal aoe stun)
- be better at tanking or atleast as good as a glyphed voidwalker (even though its primarily a dps talent)
- provide some utility that would make sense

Im a little interested with how this would work with grimoire of sacrifice/synergy tho.
actually synergy would be good, but what would destroy/aff get additionally for having that line up of talents? Personally I think GoSacrifice should be removed and make synergy baseline across all specs

[Brusalk]

Why? It is a passive talent and therefore should be less powerful than the active options. With this in mind, if the current active talents give an increase of 5% or so (i think this is the running amount but i could very well be wrong) then and increase of 5% on current pets would be all that's needed. This would give us the 2% needed to make them even with current pets, a bit more to have a reason to pick it up but would still be lower than the other talents.

Actually, if the talents provide a 5% increase in damage, than DServ would need to provide about 7% extra damage to compensate for removing the guardian CD.

[Orloth]

Why? It is a passive talent and therefore should be less powerful than the active options. With this in mind, if the current active talents give an increase of 5% or so (i think this is the running amount but i could very well be wrong) then and increase of 5% on current pets would be all that's needed. This would give us the 2% needed to make them even with current pets, a bit more to have a reason to pick it up but would still be lower than the other talents.

10-20% increase in pet damage would probably be a 2-4% increase in total DPS. (Possibly more for Demonology, but they also get more out of the 10 minute cooldowns that they'd be loosing.) (Ballpark figures, I didn't pull up logs to determine what percentage pets generally do.) I agree, though: As the passive option, they should be within shooting range of even, but be theoretically the worst option.

[Prada]

10-20% increase in pet damage would probably be a 2-4% increase in total DPS. (Possibly more for Demonology, but they also get more out of the 10 minute cooldowns that they'd be loosing.) (Ballpark figures, I didn't pull up logs to determine what percentage pets generally do.) I agree, though: As the passive option, they should be within shooting range of even, but be theoretically the worst option.

being a passive doesn't mean it has to be produced as a weaker talent. It is naturally gimped and good based on the situation.
For short bursts cataclysm will be better and for long fights with movement, the beefed up pets will be more beneficial due to a consistent dps supply.
What can change this is if the pets will receive bursty cooldowns (like felguard felstorm), in which case they will be equally viable for short fights aswell.
I cant comment on doombolt cuz idk how it rly works....does it replace something in the normal rotation or wut

[Orloth]

Demonbolt is basically a single target Cataclysm.

As DS is passive and guaranteed (the pet will always be attacking), while Cata and Demonbolt have a chance to be misused or forgotten, then it makes sense that DS be slightly behind the others in Theorycrafting. In practice, DS will pull ahead until a certain skill level, and will likely be the default option for many casual players, or for heavy movement or mechanic based fights.

[Athens]

or for heavy movement or mechanic based fights.

LOL all of them it seems :-\

[Prada]

I have a fear that demonbolt will go through frequent changes throughout the expansion, which will piss me off, so I might default to DS. I don't think it will fall behind by much at all for being a passive, remember it still needs to be very viable and desirable to compete with the other talents.

[Brusalk]

I have a fear that demonbolt will go through frequent changes throughout the expansion, which will piss me off, so I might default to DS. I don't think it will fall behind by much at all for being a passive, remember it still needs to be very viable and desirable to compete with the other talents.

Can we use DServ to refer to Demonic Servitude? DS is already a used abbreviation. :P

[lunchbox2042]

Can we use DServ to refer to Demonic Servitude? DS is already a used abbreviation. :P

I'd prefer they kill the talent altogether but that's unlikely to happen.

[Soxoffender]

As should MF. I have not used that talent once since the ToT patch.

Its too late for them to replace it so we might as well try to get them to make it useful. I like the idea of it but they really need to do more damage than regular pets.

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Ty for this. At equal damage at least it wouldnt be a trap talent necessarily. I would think you would want them to do a bit more otherwise keeping the 10m CD and regular pet with Cata or CR would come out on top.

Of course, that's assuming an exactly 10 minute fight. At those numbers, anything shorter or longer and DServ would go back to being worse than not taking the talent.

[Scutshakes]

It's interesting and I will probably use it a few times for fun, but I think I would rather go with one of the other options for my primary talent.

I REALLY don't like how the two demons look. The doomguard/terrorguard in particular has an awful texture.

I would rather they just reduce the cooldown on summoning them or buff them enough to warrant the ten minutes and then replace this talent with something else.

[Xag]

I have a fear that demonbolt will go through frequent changes throughout the expansion, which will piss me off, so I might default to DS. I don't think it will fall behind by much at all for being a passive, remember it still needs to be very viable and desirable to compete with the other talents.

Can I ask why you think this? Dont forget, MF is not desirable and IMO viable compared to KJC or AD at the moment but that hasnt stopped blizzard from keeping it the way it is.

I sincerely hope they would make it viable because I would love to run around with my doomguard especially since CR sounds like for Destro it makes CB less special to cast. I like lining up my CBs with procs for massive damage and from what I am reading, CR makes CB feel almost like a filler because you cast it so much.

So I am personally hoping Cata or DS are viable so I can keep my current play style for destro. I havent been lucky enough to play Beta so I could be wrong on some of this but its what I have read from other players.