[WoD] Assassination multi-target and AoE

[Grubjuice]

So with the Draenor perk that increases the usefulness of poisons after Crimson Tempest and recent changes to Venemous wounds to make it proc 100% of the time and refund a lot more energy when a target dies prematurely... i am left a little confused as to at which point we switch from Multi-Dotting with Rupture to a pure FoK-spam + Crimson Tempest rotation...


At how many targets is the damage of Crimson Tempest (plus Perk) > the damage and energy bonuses of Rupture (plus venemous wounds)
At how many targets is FoK > Mutilate?

is there a number of targets where we would use a combination of both Rupture(s) + Crimson Tempest?

[Verain]

Do you think we are close enough to answer that? I think they said something about an aoe pass being soon. That pass will supposedly tune aoe moves.


Once tuned, I think that can be answered.


Protip: The answer will be the same as mop: just run single target on whatever is important and let the clothies destroy everything with aoe that is quintuple yours.

[Deleted]

Do you think we are close enough to answer that? I think they said something about an aoe pass being soon. That pass will supposedly tune aoe moves.


Once tuned, I think that can be answered.


Protip: The answer will be the same as mop: just run single target on whatever is important and let the clothies destroy everything with aoe that is quintuple yours.

How is that a "Protip", if it goes completely against what you just wrote yourself in your first sentence? AoE balancing isn't done. Clothy AoE will be strong, but it could be well behind the rogue.


Back to the OPs question...As Verain said, we don't know for sure. It is a safe bet that our AoE will be MUCH stronger, and given the higher energy regen (on fights that are demanding in the AoE department one could also consider Venom Rush for the extra 15%), and the new CP system, I am not sure if multi-Rupture and Crimson Tempest will be mutually exclusive...with so much energy at our disposal, keeping 3 ruptures running AND throwing those CTs should be possible...ofc there is always the question how long the mobs will live...

[DakonBlackblade]

On beta right now doing anythign but multi rupture on however many targets are there is netting me atrociously bad DPS compared to other classes. When I hardcore multi rupture everything on sight i can more or less not be too far behind, FoK + Crimson Tempest seens like total crap right now even with the perk (pretty much like it is on live) but mult rupture is very easy with the new CP mechanics.

The ugly truth however is Assassination AoE mechanic is respecing Combat and using Blade Flurry + Venom Rush for perpetual 15% extra energy regen and awesome cleave damage (you shouldve seen how good this was on Mythic Darmac test today, I was outdpsing the clothies on AoE )

[Deleted]

Protip: The answer will be the same as mop: just run single target on whatever is important and let the clothies destroy everything with aoe that is quintuple yours.

That's what bothers me somewhat. Apparently the new mantra is "equal DPS for everyone". Sadly it's probably equal single target DPS (what used to be our niche) and not equal multi dotting everything from 40 yards/AoE.

[Deleted]

Personally I've just been focusing singletarget since at the moment that is where we're stronger. Most of the time on Darmac yesterday I topped the damage on the mounts (wolf, wyvern etc), while the adds died very quickly anyway. I did however run with venom rush and do one FoK every now and again, only to apply poisons and get the 15% energy regen, then continue singletargeting. I also multiruptured between boss and mount whenever they were attackable at the same time.
Atleast for now, if you want to AoE, just go combat really. Really hope other specs gets some love in that regard though.

[ThePlanckEnergy]

I'd say at 4-5 targets just spam FOK, but you should keep up rupture on 2-3 targets. It's ridiculously easy with combo points on the rogue and infinite energy (which is what 3 ruptures will give you). 3 targets I've gotten similar results between CT/FOK and maintaining ST on one target (which is what you'd want to do most of the time anyway in that situation).

In fact in this scenario you will both have too much energy and too many combo points and will be overwriting your crimson poison debuff before it's even half over (the crits from the FOK spam, no matter what target, grant 2 combo points...). You can even maintain Envenom + Crimson Poison. Things have to live long enough for this, so really only council type fights, but it really feels great.

[Verain]

How is that a "Protip", if it goes completely against what you just wrote yourself in your first sentence?

Because we have more than number tuning there. If you want to ask what the correct aoe rotation is, how many targets, uptime, yes, we need to wait for aoe numbers to be tuned.


But in GENERAL, we can make some extrapolations about the total value of rogue AOE. I mean, we just spent a whole expac with consistently poor and highly rotationally disruptive aoe. The exception is combat rogue in a cleave situation, and that's it.

Meanwhile, other classes had such shocking aoe numbers at time that it just wasn't possible to really compare. I mean, in most cases, you would do what I said- not even bother helping with aoe, because the other classes were simply doing so good at it that the rogue messing up his single target was a net hurt to the fight, even if the rogue's personal numbers might go up a tad (aka, you could give up X ST dps to deal 2X as area, but the warlock giving up X ST dps nets him 4X as area, so if you need 8x as area, the lack gives up 2X and the rogue gives up 4X so stay on target).

Because the design for aoe is "whatever we felt like, who cares", and because the design for rogue aoe moves are "whoa, better be conservative", I can state, without knowing ANY of their numbers, that rogues will be mediocre to poor to aoe, with the possible exception of blade flurry, which given its restrictions, deserves to dominate (and seldom does).


But, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe rogues will blow away everyone on aoe, at least in one spec. I'd love that, it feels great to swap and aoe and have that be the CORRECT call- I just would be surprised if it was a thing.