What your 15 dollars a month pays for...

[StinkyPete]

No content - no money. As simple as that.

This, a thousand times this. The alienated hardcore population somehow seems to expect either that Blizzard should decide they don't need money after all, or that casuals should be happy to subsidize their exclusive content by paying for a game that they basically don't play. Oh yeah and by the way, it's everyone else except them who's "entitled".

It's a proposition that isn't really working out well for them with, you know, Blizzard or reality or anything.

That's why they're on here basically having the forum equivalent of the Two Minutes Hate, screaming at their imaginary Goldstein who wants heroic epics in LFR, even though it's been pointed out fifty times that he doesn't actually exist.

This is how the "hardcore MMO community" basically goes out. Not with a bang, but with a slow years-long trickle of forum tears and futile calls for the developers to (metaphorically speaking) ban automobiles and bring back the stagecoach.

[Wilian]

I constantly see people complaining about people who say this but I rarely ever see anyone actually saying this. It's a self-perpetuating mythology.

I've witnessed far too many "I pay the same so I am entitled to get same rewards as you" posts in my time, especially during Wrath to just dismiss it as self-perpetuating myth.

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Sorry, but even at those old days, when Blizzard had 12M of subs, they admitted, that supporting servers only costed them a "one supercar a day", i.e. 300K of $.

That's irrelevant. Your sub fee doesn't still entitle you for anything else than access to servers when going by the print.

[Blufossa]

I still hear this from time-to-time. "I pay the same 15 dollars a month that geared raiders pay. I should be able to get the same epics they do even though I'm a casual player who can only play for 10 minutes a day."

I have always been of the opinion that my 15 dollars was for access to the online world and nothing else. I don't have to raid. I don't have to pvp, or quest or level or even fish if I don't want to. I'm not entitled to anything in the game that I haven't earned through the established methods. If I had my way, you'd only be able to get pve epics and higher from actual raiding (which isn't LFR) and some professions. Dungeons, including heroics? Blues.

That's my take.

Psssssssssssssssst- those "same epics" could be had during Vanilla if you were willing to PvP instead of raid with 39 other people.

[AVPaul]

I've witnessed far too many "I pay the same so I am entitled to get same rewards as you" posts in my time, especially during Wrath to just dismiss it as self-perpetuating myth.

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That's irrelevant. Your sub fee doesn't still entitle you for anything else than access to servers when going by the print.

Who said it? Blzzard? Sorry, but this is just another myth and stereotype, they created at those old times, when MMOs was something new and wonderful, so nobody knew, for what they are actually paying. But today most of developers providing access to their games and supporting them literally for free and if some game charges sub fee and paid xpacks, then it should provide much higher quality and quantity of content. So today you are paying for CONTENT, not for access. And players are different and prefer different types of content. And Blizzard is constantly cutting one kinds of content, while putting too much priority on others. And this is exact the same as giving priority to some players, while treating others as third grade customers. So why are we supposed to pay equal money, if developers give us different priorities, quality and quantity of content? I don't think it's fair to pay for raids, if I don't raid, while having my favorite content being cut more and more. Yeah?

[Tenjen]

you pay 15$ and get in stuff for what you do to get it. Raid epics? do raids. Pvp epics? do pvp. lack time? get what is available in the little time you have, which is much more than in previus expansions gave.

[taishar68]

I still hear this from time-to-time. "I pay the same 15 dollars a month that geared raiders pay. I should be able to get the same epics they do even though I'm a casual player who can only play for 10 minutes a day."

I have always been of the opinion that my 15 dollars was for access to the online world and nothing else. I don't have to raid. I don't have to pvp, or quest or level or even fish if I don't want to. I'm not entitled to anything in the game that I haven't earned through the established methods. If I had my way, you'd only be able to get pve epics and higher from actual raiding (which isn't LFR) and some professions. Dungeons, including heroics? Blues.

That's my take.

I've been playing WoW for 8 years and I have never heard anyone say anything like that. I guess we just travel in different circles.

Or maybe I just don't care about what random people say or do, and thus miss all the casual whining.

[AVPaul]

you pay 15$ and get in stuff for what you do to get it. Raid epics? do raids. Pvp epics? do pvp. lack time? get what is available in the little time you have, which is much more than in previus expansions gave.

My favorite content - is 5ppls. Where are my 5ppls? Yeah... "They would cost us pair of raid bosses". So why "raid bosses" getting higher priority, then my 5ppls? And if so, why should I pay the same money for lesser or none content? I want to pay for what I'm getting as result, not for what "I might get, if...".

[fixx]

I've witnessed far too many "I pay the same so I am entitled to get same rewards as you" posts in my time, especially during Wrath to just dismiss it as self-perpetuating myth.

Written by professional forum trolls as a cheap satire aimed towards WLK style frost emblem farming for tier sets.

[mauserr]

Does it entitle you to nothing, or to use blizzard's servers?

Bad englando?

[nekobaka]

For my $15/mo I want content that will allow me to get gear proportionate to what Effort I put in. If I want to raid lfr, I want lfr quality epics, if I do heroic, I want heroic epics. But my $15 is as good as anyone else's $15 and I want access to rewarding gear that fits MY playstyle choices.

You special snowflakes are getting out of hand.

So you want rewards equal to the effort. Now who are the ones who are asking for heroic dungeons to get better rewards in order for them to match the effort involved?

[Doez]

I still hear this from time-to-time. "I pay the same 15 dollars a month that geared raiders pay. I should be able to get the same epics they do even though I'm a casual player who can only play for 10 minutes a day."

I have always been of the opinion that my 15 dollars was for access to the online world and nothing else. I don't have to raid. I don't have to pvp, or quest or level or even fish if I don't want to. I'm not entitled to anything in the game that I haven't earned through the established methods. If I had my way, you'd only be able to get pve epics and higher from actual raiding (which isn't LFR) and some professions. Dungeons, including heroics? Blues.

That's my take.

Although this topic has been talked about over and over and over and over, I really can't stand this argument. People who think LFR loot should equal heroic loot really need to find a new game. I only raid LFR because of RL time constraints, and wishing that the loot from LFR would be heroic is something that never crosses my mind.

[Sansnom]

I've known casual players who are butthurt and think they deserve the same epics as Heroic raiders because they pay the same fee...

And the forums are full of Heroic raiders complaining and getting butthurt about casual players getting inferior gears doing inferior raids.

[Hammerfest]

And the forums are full of Heroic raiders complaining and getting butthurt about casual players getting inferior gears doing inferior raids.

On what planet? Heroic raiders would prefer people who don't raid don't get raid gear. It makes sense... heroic raiders want to distinguish themselves visually from those who are not. If you're not going to raid, why do you need raid gear? If you're reading this on the forums, I can tell you that these "heroic raiders" are most likely not what they say they are.

[Doez]

On what planet? Heroic raiders would prefer people who don't raid don't get raid gear. It makes sense... heroic raiders want to distinguish themselves visually from those who are not. If you're not going to raid, why do you need raid gear? If you're reading this on the forums, I can tell you that these "heroic raiders" are most likely not what they say they are.

Distinguish themselves.. LOL! There is no sense of community on a realm anymore, so no one really cares what you have or don't have. Your name (not speaking to you personally, but as a generality) is known to no one other than your friends and guild mates (unless you are an e-celeb). We are all numbers, ultimately. No one gives a rat's ass if you have a heroic axe from Garrosh for example, and you won't be envied. Man, I wish my gear was shaded the same color as yours with a little bit higher ilvl stats!

It's different than when you walked around with a Thunderfury, or Glaives, or even a Shadowmourne. People wanted what you had because they saw you around all the time, in the city, in BGs, and so on. You just don't get that anymore, but having that narcissistic attitude is truly a gem.

[Wilian]

Who said it? Blzzard? Sorry, but this is just another myth and stereotype, they created at those old times, when MMOs was something new and wonderful, so nobody knew, for what they are actually paying. But today most of developers providing access to their games and supporting them literally for free and if some game charges sub fee and paid xpacks, then it should provide much higher quality and quantity of content. So today you are paying for CONTENT, not for access. And players are different and prefer different types of content. And Blizzard is constantly cutting one kinds of content, while putting too much priority on others. And this is exact the same as giving priority to some players, while treating others as third grade customers. So why are we supposed to pay equal money, if developers give us different priorities, quality and quantity of content? I don't think it's fair to pay for raids, if I don't raid, while having my favorite content being cut more and more. Yeah?

A wall of text that when going by the print means nothing at all because all you're entitled to with your monthly fee is access to servers, something Blizzard can terminate at their will, even without reason.

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Written by professional forum trolls as a cheap satire aimed towards WLK style frost emblem farming for tier sets.

If you say so.

[Sansnom]

On what planet? Heroic raiders would prefer people who don't raid don't get raid gear. It makes sense... heroic raiders want to distinguish themselves visually from those who are not. If you're not going to raid, why do you need raid gear? If you're reading this on the forums, I can tell you that these "heroic raiders" are most likely not what they say they are.

This one. People are doing LFR are getting LFR gear. People doing heroic raids are getting heroic raid gear.

But some "raiders" don't want people doing LFR to get LFR gear. And some even want people not be able do LFR at all.

[AVPaul]

You should really understand the situation with WOD. Imagine, that you have invested into building of three room house. Building company said to you, that you would have to pay a little bit more and wait a little bit longer, but at the end you would have a four room house, instead of three room! Of course you agreed, because you trusted this company. But when time comes, they just say to you "Sorry buddy, but we managed to build only two room house, cuz materials became too expensive recently". Ok, that happens. But this is not the end of story. Then you suddenly find out, that they actually used your money to build 2x two room houses instead of one four room and now trying to sell second house separately to grab some extra free money. Yeah. That's how situation with WOD looks like. They charged subs from us for extra 7 months, which made SOO twice more expensive in terms of fee/content ratio, increased price of xpack by 10$, but at the end we are getting the smallest xpack in Wow history, while they definitely used this delay to develop two xpacks simultaneously, but going to charge another 50$ for second one, which will give them 100$ per 2 years instead of 40$ from previous xpacks. And this is while gaining about 13$ (~90% of sub fee) for 7 months, i.e. 91$, for free just due to delay. Isn't it too much for quality and quantity of content they are providing? Don't you think, that they are trying to sell only 1/2 of content for the same price like in those example with investing into house? In real world this is called fraud and it's crime. But due to absence of any agreement between you and Bliizzard, thay actually can change their minds at any moment and turn all they said at Blizzcont into just empty sounds. No agreement - no responsibility. I really think, that game developing companies should not be allowed to sell preorders without making an agreement with players to give them guaranty, about what and when exactly they are going to get in xpack, they are going to buy. What you can do about it now? Refound your preorder and refuse to buy WOD until price will be lowered or, in ideal case, WOD will be offered completely for free, just because Blizzard already gained ~90$ of completely free money due to simply delaying xpack release. There is no other way to stop this slippery slope of milking more money only for the sake of milking even more money right here and right now.

[Deadite]

On what planet? Heroic raiders would prefer people who don't raid don't get raid gear. It makes sense... heroic raiders want to distinguish themselves visually from those who are not. If you're not going to raid, why do you need raid gear? If you're reading this on the forums, I can tell you that these "heroic raiders" are most likely not what they say they are.

The people i knew who done heroic raids did not give two shits about what gear Random Guy #239696 had. They care about what gear they had and the progression they were making. They would wear a pink leotard and bunny ears in game if it gave them .00000000001% dps/Hps increase. I think you are projecting your own need for recognition onto others.... /Psychology 101

[Orange Joe]

I still hear this from time-to-time. "I pay the same 15 dollars a month that geared raiders pay. I should be able to get the same epics they do even though I'm a casual player who can only play for 10 minutes a day."

I have always been of the opinion that my 15 dollars was for access to the online world and nothing else. I don't have to raid. I don't have to pvp, or quest or level or even fish if I don't want to. I'm not entitled to anything in the game that I haven't earned through the established methods. If I had my way, you'd only be able to get pve epics and higher from actual raiding (which isn't LFR) and some professions. Dungeons, including heroics? Blues.

That's my take.

I have never seen one person say this. Can you provide a source please?

[Kahmal]

"I pay the same money I should get the same content" I think this was actually a valid argument during TBC. It matters more now then ever now that WoW isn't the top PC game. While I never saw BT in BC it didn't bother me but I could understand why it bothered others.

However Blizzard really shot themselves in the foot with the whole "raiding for every1" theme. In TBC casuals were actual quite happy with welfare epics as long as Blizzard continued to provide them, and there were tons of other things to do besides raid. They made it so accessible now though via LFR you almost seem pigeon holed into it.
Also the new "raids for everyone" theme revealed a glaring weakness in Blizzard, how freakin long they take to come out with content. At launch of BC we had Kara, TK, SSC, Hyjal, Gruul's Layer and Magtheridon. 6 raids at launch, keep in mind though only Kara was ascetically pleasing, despite how great the encounters were in TK and SSC it was always criticized for being a pink/blue hall way with trash.

However these 6 raids gave Blizzard all the time in the world to come out with BT, ZG and Sunwell because most people haven't even started Hyjal yet. They simply had to nerf content at a more consistent rate similar to the ICC buff to get a larger portion of the population through that content once they were ready to come out with more content. With everyone on the same raid tier everyone gets burned out at the same time. I dont think the sub drop off was as steep for the end of TBC because so many people were still trying to see the raiding content with that 30% nef they implemented at the end.