[Medium spoilers] On Draenor B, Garrosh..

[Knough]

[Medium spoilers] On Draenor B, Garrosh was never born.

Reading through new short story, Hellscream, and found this of note:

"I understand how you feel." Garrosh chose his words carefully. "My father died with his axe buried in his enemy's chest. A good death. But the path that led him there was paved with dishonor and was born from a single wrong decision. For too long I lived with rage toward him. It was wasted anger. Your mate's death and your clan's moment of weakness may still cause you pain, but the son she gave you—"

"My son? She never gave me a son."

Grommash was staring into Garrosh's eyes, weighing him, judging him. Garrosh did not even allow himself to blink. "I did not know that," was all he said.

Kairoz. Garrosh felt a cheek muscle jump. Counting blades of grass. He took a moment to relish the memory of carving out the dragon's middle, feeling Kairoz's hot blood flow over his hands. It calmed him. Deep breaths. I was never born on this world. Grommash was never a father. Is this what the bronze dragon meant by "the perfect timeway"?

Kairoz tells Garrosh to not worry that this Draenor is not exactly the same, and it's revealed that Garrosh's mum didn't die honourably, and she bore no son.
Is this a surprise? I haven't read anything longer than this story, or played WCI, II, III, so am unaware of how old Garrosh B would be.

[Trassk]

Well, this means their really is no continuity for Garrosh, his story really does end on draenor. Any theories on a baby garrosh has just been cut.

[GennGreymane]

0-0 bronze dragon killed babyrosh

[Mawnix]

Well, this means their really is no continuity for Garrosh, his story really does end on draenor. Any theories on a baby garrosh has just been cut.

Which means he was written well and finished well.

Seriously, I'm still reading this short story but it is so well done.

There's an honest to god level of depth in WoD's lore that I haven't ever felt in a WoW expansion.

[Imnick]

After War Crimes, and this short story have put me into his head I... think I'm actually going to miss Garrosh when he's gone.
I never expected that

I guess at least they've succeeded there. I wouldn't miss Thrall if he died, so we know that is long overdue.

[Knough]

0-0 bronze dragon killed babyrosh

Not quite, Bronze dragon just found a Draenor where babyrosh never was born.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

"Kairoz would advise you not to count every blade of grass." - A blueposter when asked about why things aren't exactly the same.

Something's wrong here. Something's VEEEEERY wrong here.

Kairoz didn't just send Garrosh back. Kairoz actually was changing history even before Garrosh was sent back.

[Imnick]

"Kairoz would advise you not to count every blade of grass." - A blueposter when asked about why things aren't exactly the same.

Something's wrong here. Something's VEEEEERY wrong here.

Kairoz didn't just send Garrosh back. Kairoz actually was changing history even before Garrosh was sent back.

I don't think he was changing history, he found a pre-existing Draenor that was slightly different to ours at its conception.
The fate spirits were only offended after Garrosh arrived, destiny up to that point therefore must have gone as it was intended to.

Imagine the Sands of Time as a device which lets you bring things to and from alternate timelines which already exist, not one which actually makes them.

[Imnick]

But Moon Blade, the Burning Legion Missive toy shows Archimonde giving a "We found the Draenei! Kill them! Revenge!" speech. Not Kil'Jaeden.
Even if Sargeras himself isn't involved, it's clear that his entire council of lieutenants is. It's more than just Kil'Jaeden.

[Deleted]

I don't think he was changing history, he found a pre-existing Draenor that was slightly different to ours at its conception.
The fate spirits were only offended after Garrosh arrived, destiny up to that point therefore must have gone as it was intended to.

Imagine the Sands of Time as a device which lets you bring things to and from alternate timelines which already exist, not one which actually makes them.

The infinite timeways always existed, but Nozdormu was the responsible to watch and delete them, to keep the only true timeway. But now he doesn't care anymore...

- - - Updated - - -

But Moon Blade, the Burning Legion Missive toy shows Archimonde giving a "We found the Draenei! Kill them! Revenge!" speech. Not Kil'Jaeden.
Even if Sargeras himself isn't involved, it's clear that his entire council of lieutenants is. It's more than just Kil'Jaeden.

They changed Archimonde's text to fit the lore better. He doesn't care about the Draenei, he took control because Kil'jaeden failed and Mannoroth died and see the orc and draenei souls as an opportunity.

[Imnick]

Oh, that comment is out of date? That's good then, makes more sense.

[Opium3ater]

im a garrosh fanboy. i still think that if he had a gf (or bf) and smoked some good weed, hed actually turn out to be a really nice fella!

[Deleted]

This was a great read and I really want to read more.

[Tojara]

I guess the only possibility is that baby Garrosh could exist, but he was hidden. But given how close Grommash and Golva seemed to be in the short story, it's unlikely that she would have hidden him at all.

To answer the question about Garrosh's age, he would probably be an adolescent at this point. Probably not a baby, but a child/teenager. He's older than Thrall.

[Izalla]

Contradictions abound. mind you the star chart dialogue I am referencing is from this newest build. The fact he doesn't give a rat's ass about the Draenei one way or another is interesting. I find it rather interesting that it's just Kil'jaeden who wants to wipe out the Draenei and the fact that his side project not only failed but cost the Legion one of their top dogs prompts Archimonde to desire vengeance against the Orcs and use Draenei souls for 'good use'.

nevermind not a contradiction, but rather a fix. I like

I actually think that in one of the books (maybe Rise of the Horde?) it's shown that it's all about Kil'jaeden feeling betrayed by his brother (not blood brother) while Archimonde wasn't that close to Velen and doesn't really care much about the fact that Velen ditched them. I could be wrong, but I somehow already knew that it was a personal vendetta for KJ and not a priority of Archimonde, and that's the only WoW book I've read that would have touched on the subject.

[Sesto]

Nerzhul's wife is also very much alive and a leader in her own right in this universe. Things are different. Another thing that is revealed through the Star Chart toy is Chasing the Draenei across the universe with the intent of wiping them out is nothing more than Kil'jaeden's vendetta. It's not a primary goal of the Legion and Archimonde doesn't care for Kil'jaeden's obsession with it. The fact that it cost the Legion Mannoroth is what prompted Archimonde to react, while in the MU Kil'jaeden was almost entirely successful. I'm not sure if this was ever explained in MU but I'd think it's just as relevant there as it is here, so spoilers since not totally relevant to thread.

Yeah, this isn't really new information. We've known this for a long time.

[prwraith]

omg can you imagine if his wife is pregnant and we get garrosh 2.0 later as a retcon.

[Deleted]

Wonder where they're going with this. Maybe it's just to close his chapter. Make sure there won't be another Garrosh at some point in WoW. Would make his story pointless.

[TheWindWalker]

The infinite timeways always existed, but Nozdormu was the responsible to watch and delete them, to keep the only true timeway. But now he doesn't care anymore...

It's a bit hard to "care" when you've had most of your power taken away and the concept of altering time on demand is already gone.

That and, I'm fairly sure the Titans didn't give Nozdormu that power and expected him to be able to change the timeline for every planet in the entire universe at a whim. Would be kinda weird to have a "god" share that kind of power then bugger off to another galaxy or whatever without protecting or directly observing that guy as he'd be the most dangerous thing in existence anywhere if he could alter time outside of that planet he's stationed on.

[Cannibalus]

Yeah, this isn't really new information. We've known this for a long time.

*Rises angrily, faces almost touching" You and what army?