Critiques?

[JemiS]

Ok, so we probably need help in general.

We have a core who were gone from the game for a bit, and we're rebuilding and trying to get some Heroic progression before 6.0.

But we seem to have a lot of issues with some of our newer recruits, and after going over them until our eyes bleed, I would appreciate some fresh views on our logs- especially classes I'm less familiar with.


The two nights this week were heroic progression. Imm and Prot weren't bad given that a lot of the raid had never done them.

Noru we were able to get down fairly quickly our second night, but Sha.... We had problems. I'm sure it was a combination of a lot of things- healers stressing over tanks, DPS not using CDs, and some low DPS. Any specific pointers would be great.

[trystero]

#1, 8 wipes is nothing. If you really want to progress heroics you need to put the time/work in.

Now just looking at death logs, your problem is people failing at mechanics. Not that DPS isn't a problem, it's very low, but Sha is a mechanics check and a slight DPS check in that the boss needs to transition before MCs start to go out. On that note players should be single targeting Sha and letting the adds die to cloaks/cleaves/tanks (this is imo the easiest fight in the entire tier to tank so they shouldn't have any trouble surviving). So take your ele shaman. On attempt #2 he did half his damage, about 40m damage, to adds. Completely pointless, 18m from Chain Lightning, there's no rush for adds to die except I guess if they can kill tanks, in which case I don't know what to say since it is totally non-threatening damage, and if your tanks die to that then they're toast come the harder heroics. Attempt #7 is more like it, where the ele did 90% of his damage to the boss.

You lose a lot of people around Swelling Pride, which is to be expected. Players should be using defensive CDs to survive it especially if they are not at full. Like you lose your hunter several times to this part of the fight. If he's not at full health, or he has Mark of Arrogance, he really should be popping Deterrence to stay alive.

Other thing which is owning you would be Mark of Arrogance. That warlock dies to it almost every pull. Y'all got to dispel it off him or at the very least heal him.

[JemiS]

Oh, I know 8 wipes is nothing. But the core 5 of us were 5/14 back in Feburary. And tbh, the first 8 heroics or so aren't huge numbers of attempts to down, from what I recall. It wasn't until Malk that I've had trouble, in general.

I'm more looking for specific things to tell our classes that I don't play on how not to fail at mechanics. I was going to go to each of the class forums and ask for a log critique, but I figured this might be a bit more efficient.

For instance, warlock- he has his imp, isn't he supposed to be able to dispel himself? I know that's why healers weren't targeting him for it.

Our rogue seems to die a lot, and my understanding was they were one of the more durable classes, with Cloak and Feint, but I don't play mine enough to critique his logs.

As you point out, our shaman was doing a lot of damage to adds- raid instructions were to not target them, at all. Tanks were pulling them over and cleaving them down.

Our better DPS holds at about 300k, which should be OK, but not all our DPS is there.

[Deja Thoris]

Like was said above, its a mechanics fight.

Lets look at the 6:19 minute attempt:
How was the rift closing? http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...ability=147388 Not great

Since you didn't close rifts well, how good were you at avoiding the shit they fling? http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...ability=147198 Pretty obvious who has trouble there :P

How much damage did you take because you didn't dispel? http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...ability=144351 Dispel regardless of whether you have the gift of the titans buff (unless you are going to reach 100 pride - if this is the case do more dps or don't fail dodging flying poop)

The fight follows a very predictable pattern. Just get used to it. Adds > prison > big add > swelling pride. Fragment is in there somewhere but I forget where :P (I tank it)
Don't aoe unless its something like Rain of fire for embers. Let tanks get the adds. Dps single target the boss
Use a CD for EVERY swelling pride. Ideally your disc can spirit shell every one. Otherwise you have banner and cry, devox2, HTTx2, AG, SLT and barrier. Use them for swelling pride.

Really, with each class, just look at their main abilities that generate resources / important buff uptimes. For example, warr tank hit shield slam 27 times in 6 mun, half of what he could have done (it generates rage).


Edit: in response to your post above. The only dps that matters is on the boss http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...done&target=81 top was 240k. People like the hunter did 113k on adds. Pure padding.

[JemiS]

On that note, what about damage to corrupted fragment/manifestation? I know small adds are meaningless, but breaking people out of banishment/knocking down the back add is important, yes?

Ok, so I see things like our rogues Cloak was 2x in all our attempts, obviously needs work.

I guess I'll get them to go to class forums for more specifics.

For rift closing- I assume each player should be around 1/min? It seems like the first 30s or so of the fight is pretty sparse on rifts, but for a 5-7 min fight how many rifts should I be looking for each player to have closed?

Our healers got MC'd at the end of our longest attempt, so dispelling more from them will be difficult unless we can get the DPS up, so people will have to do more on their own to mitigate.

Really appreciate the help, thanks.

[-Raer-]

3 healers and people are dying from going 6+ seconds without a heal? Suspect.

If the healers are getting MC'd, that means you're not making use of the buff... can't remember what it's called. Although in 25 man we never stack or worried about the buff.

Focus on mechanics and the damage will come with familiarity to the fight, unless your raiders are special.

[Deja Thoris]

3 healers and people are dying from going 6+ seconds without a heal? Suspect.

Your counting is suspect. The attempt I checked was 2 healed.

On that note, what about damage to corrupted fragment/manifestation? I know small adds are meaningless, but breaking people out of banishment/knocking down the back add is important, yes?

Yeah the fragment and big add are prio. If your disc was getting MC'd its because they were gaining pride from getting hit by rift poop. Its the main source of pride gain and they were the main culprit when it came to getting hit.

I'd guess in a 6 min fight people would ideally close 5 rifts.

[Deleted]

I will only comment on your Warlock since I play one myself.
Wanted to make a report per boss, but he seems te be making the same error over and over again.

He has a horrible uptime on Immolate. He needs to track his debuffs on the boss because it is lowering his DPS a lot.
He also needs to Havoc shadowburn more. He can get a lot of increased dps here.

[Eetabee]

If your players are smart, let them close rifts on cd. By smart I mean not right before any of the boss abilities and not when they have the debuff. If they run off to close a rift and then get the pacman thing no one will know where they are to break them out. Also if they run out with the dot on them they will likely be out of range of heals. This goes for further out rifts. Close one should be closed ASAP because they pose little risk. Make sure tanks are also closing rifts on cd. Only one tank tanks at a time so the other can close a rift while waiting.

If your players are not smart then just have everyone close a rift after a swelling and before the next set of adds. There is nothing dangerous happening here EXCEPT the dot may be on some people.

For your prot warrior, as mentioned above, his priority is messed up. Prot warriors need to generate rage in order to use block/barrier. You generate rage with shield slam and revenge. Priority has to be shield slam, revenge then devastate. It looks like he is using devastate too much and not enough ss or revenge. He can also use demo shout/banner and rally cry on swellings. He can use reck more. There is nothing dangerous to tanks in this fight so he should use CDs when the raid is taking a lot of damage so the healers can focus them and not the tank. I use my shield wall and stuff during swelling just because it helps the raid, not that I ever need them.