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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnrage View Post
    What I have gotten from this thread is that most of the people in here should form a guild and become #1 in the world. Afterall, they can walk into any new encounter and be instant pros from what it sounds like. No mistakes from them either, no no. Just all-star players all-around.

    Oh wait, it's just the morons talking out of their asses as usual.

    100% agree OP, people are stupid as shit if you haven't learn that yet. This thread is a pretty dead giveaway. The only thing I would flame you about is making a thread on MMO-Champion about it. This is the same cesspool that made up your flex raid, what made you think it was a good idea to come vent your frustrations here?
    Of course its not the guy tanking who isn't doing the one job of tanking which is a taunt swap. You can turn almost everything else off in game except debuff stacks and be a decent enough tank to get through most encounters. I'm not going to feel bad for the tank who isn't monitoring debuffs when they que up, that actively and knowingly has them turned off for his dps spec. You want to tank I'm all for it, but if you aren't doing the one basic thing I don't pity you. I don't believe we have the full story either.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Guthwine View Post
    This is more of a problem with the anonymous raiding culture that exists in wow these days. Raiding used to be something that you had to prepare for. You got your food, flasks, pots, superior wizard oil, read up on fights so as not to look like a newb. Now it's so convenient that people just stumble into raids without caring. I don't care that queues are long. I would rather they go away entirely because people form their own groups, which allows personal interaction and lets you get to know the people on your server. This also leads to noobs getting reputations for being noobs and having to improve themselves or never get invited to anything.
    Not even just raids. Back in BC near launch my server basically had a shit list for people and they would just get ignored when people were making heroic groups. You afk or half ass something, you ruined your reputation, and no group worth a damn would take you. Now you queue into people you likely never see again so a lot of people can't be bothered.

    The result is the OP's issue. People know they can still get a group next week no matter what they do this week which means most dps don't give a shit. Then you have the tuning that allows you to beat the encounter with most of the dps dead on lfr/flex which again makes it less likely the dps will give a shit or that people will give a shit about the dps. Sadly, in the name of 'seeing the content,' this behavior has become accepted and expected. The tank on the other hand you still need to do stuff which is why people actually care and bitch about the tank. You can't fix that until you either have a way to make people responsible for their actions by being black listed by the community or by making the encounter impossible unless the dps play to the same standard as the tank. The former doesn't happen because of random groups across all servers, and the latter doesn't happen because LFR and really Flex too have to be tuned to be super easy so that people can 'see the content.'

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by crunk View Post
    Do you fuckers really believe that you can watch a video and work out all of the details and perform perfectly on the first pull? for fucks sake, if that were true everyone in the game would have been 14/14H two weeks after release.
    really mature
    and stop with the strawmans no one believes that and no here or ingame is expecting you to go and tank 14/14HC, they are expecting you to read up on the one thing you have to do as a tank in order to tank flex, you didn't do it or didn't do it well enough to remember it

    Quote Originally Posted by crunk View Post
    .All this shit happened not because I was incredibly under-prepared so much as it was I lacked experience. Of course I read the damn dungeon journal before I joined the group. You have to be seriously fucking dumb in the head if you think anyone can watch a video, read the dungeon journal, and hop into a fight playing a new role and do it perfectly.
    if you watch the video that says taunt at 12-13 stacks you know that you have to taunt at 12-13 stacks and thus you don't have to go and ask your co tank "what do i do on this fight" quite sure that pissed him off, seeing that the other tank couldn't have bothered to read up the bare minimum about the fight
    even a simple change to "I know you have to taunt at 12-15 stack but do you do any different?" question already gives off a completely different attitude and doesn't make the other tank immediately think that his co-tank is lazy and inexperienced while still asking if the other tank has any particular way he does the fight

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    Exactly this. What makes you think you have the right to enjoy a video game instead of doing research and spoiling everything?
    You can do that if you want, the 9 to 24 other people also don't have to let you spoil their game because you don't know what to do.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  5. #105
    so OP says "fuck it, I'll wing it", wipes the group then claims it's our fault for wanting a tank that knows how to tank. Got it.
    A story of travel and experience from around the world

  6. #106
    1st time tanking goes to flex 3 lol

  7. #107
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Bear Taco, Left Hand of Death
    The excuse "I can be an idiot because everyone else is an idiot" doesn't work out so well. It doesn't work in real life and it doesn't work tanking raids. Just one of those facts o' life. Should a tank be kicked because they came into the fight without knowing what to do? Yes. When you sign up for tanking you sign up for knowing what you are doing. It's inherent in the role they play. If you don't like it, don't take. It's pretty simple. Take your moonkin bracers, pair it with some more moonkin gear, and spam moonfire and enjoy it. Tanking is onerous. I did it for 8 years. I don't do it anymore for all of the reasons listed above. I just want to jump in and smash faces and worry less about everything else. There's nothing wrong with that.

  8. #108
    - The tank is the only role that generally cannot fail without causing a raid wipe as the result, most of the time at least.
    - If you go into a group, random or player made, as tank, you are expected to know how to play your class, the encounters, and communicate with your fellow tanks.
    - If don't obey that you should be ready to face consequences. Yes people freak out over that, news to no one. You, as a single person, cost them time, progress and loot, and they'll hate you for it. It's not so much that you failed - it's more that you play the one role that may not fail and still did.
    - Those belong to the underlying, unwritten rules that exist ever since group content was introduced into this game. You better start playing along. In the beginning the people you could trust would do this on their own initiative; today you have to bait them or beat them with a stick. Nice people to the former, the others the latter. And there are not many nice people in WoW.
    Your rights as a consumer begin and end at the point where you choose not to consume, and not where you yourself influence the consumed goods.

    Translation: if you don't like a game don't play it.

  9. #109
    I created a post like that after I was booted from UBRS because I couldn't instant aggro like the hunter does with his multishot. There is no point in it it's just frust handling.
    My first Mop-raid tanking was that Terrace of endless spring. Seemed like we both had never tanked a raid in a long time. We were both so nervous it took a few minutes till I decided I would be the one making the pull. That pretty much made me the MainTank for that raid.
    I guess what I wanted to get at is; It's not that hard if you spend 5 minutes or the time it takes for the trash to read that ingame guide.
    I have literally read those guides while already in the group and it always worked out. Though I might should add that has been as DD.
    Make us Whole.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnrage View Post
    What I have gotten from this thread is that most of the people in here should form a guild and become #1 in the world. Afterall, they can walk into any new encounter and be instant pros from what it sounds like. No mistakes from them either, no no. Just all-star players all-around.

    Oh wait, it's just the morons talking out of their asses as usual.

    100% agree OP, people are stupid as shit if you haven't learn that yet. This thread is a pretty dead giveaway. The only thing I would flame you about is making a thread on MMO-Champion about it. This is the same cesspool that made up your flex raid, what made you think it was a good idea to come vent your frustrations here?
    Except no one is saying that, they are saying 'sort your shit out before you get to the raid' which means read up on things, make sure your UI is suitable and above all do not try to wing it and learn on the fly unless the entire group is happy to do that

  11. #111
    Immortal Dukenukemx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Better part of NJ
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamerloin View Post
    You have some valid points, but i would argue against the first one. Saying DPS is more fun than tanking or healing is in no way factual, and is therefore not a valid point in my opinion. I know a lot of people that really enjoy tanking, and I myself would prefer leveling as a tank over anything else. So why do you see fewer tanks at max level doing lfr or flex runs? Its because the content is unknown, which is a big no-no if you're role is to lead the raid. So even if you are brave enough to step into a raid as a tank without any knowledge, there is a chance of wiping, and an even bigger chance of getting blamed, flamed or even kicked. So people choose not to tank.
    Fact is there's more dps than tanks/healers. Whatever their reason is for not queuing as a tank/healer is part of the reason. If they don't like to tank/heal because of unknown content then that's part of not liking to play as tank or healer. But you do bring up a valid point, cause part of playing a game is going into a fight and trying to figure it out. Problem is there's peer pressure from other players that expect you to know the fight before getting into it. I'm one of those people that like to jump into a fight and figure it out as I go along. It's not fun to Google a fight and watch a video of it before actually doing the fight. On the other hand I also don't like wasting my time with other players who don't know it.

    The problem here is that fight mechanics aren't easy to pic up. It's getting harder and harder for Blizz developers to make new and interesting fights, so there's a lot of new wacky and intrinsic mechanics they put in the game that aren't really fun to learn. It's not like back in Vanilla where there's was only a few mechanics you had to worry about.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by crunk View Post
    so i'm tanking this flex, right? just got my set together like 543 with 2p, meta, and some nice trinkets. boomkin bracers, but thats whatever.

    okay so i've never tanked anything more serious than LFR before and i dont make this a secret either. i ask the other tank when i should taunt on malk and he says "12 - just, whenever dbm tells you". so i'm like "okay this guy doesn't know shit either. cool." the fight starts and im derping around trying to figure out how many stacks he has (group was too impatient to give me a second to set up a WA and pulled) and then he fucking RAGES AT ME!! Like, "OMFG TAUNT YOU MORON".

    so i taunted, like, right away. he was still alive and all but threw a fit and left - "Crunkfresh sucks he doesn't know what he's doing." okay, you caught me. but i was trying to figure it out - just working out UI issues really. also, i went ahead and tanked him up to 30 stacks with pvp gear and boomkin bracers while the rest of the raid was dieing to ignorant shit like smashes (which i was marking) and breaths. i was one of the last to die but they kicked me anyway because i was a liiitttle late on a taunt.

    meanwhile, dps can just fuck around and act like idiots all they want - on practically any difficulty - and never get called out for it. i can see why most people are either scared or can't be bothered tanking public runs with these jackasses. fortunately, i'm a dickhead on the internet too so i just shit talk them right back, fix my weak aura, and move on. a lot of people have thin skin though and it makes it real fuckin hard to learn a role like tanking because tanks aren't allowed to make mistakes ever. the dps can run off to africa and die to idiot shit or the healers can all blow their cooldowns at the same time but the second a tank fucks up its this big to-do.

    thats why your queues are too long. because wow players are jerks. but, like i said, it don't matter to me much. ill keep puggin those flexes and taunting whenever the fuck i feel like it.
    And you didnt set your co-tank to focus to watch stacks because...?

    Besides Im pretty sure boss mods have popups "PIMPTANK 8 STACKS DEBUFF" "PIMPTANK 9 STACKS DEBUFF" etc.

    Honestly you have no excuse for not taunting when he told you too. "one second late" my ass, the tank stopped to type out TAUNT NOW for you.

    So you know, tanking at a sub-heroic level is easily the most brain dead role. You dont need to manage your defensives well you just need to kinda-sorta keep up active mitigation. You arent allowed to make mistakes because its so brain dead easy to be a good enough tank until heroics that mistakes bad enough to cause any sort of problems are really freaking huge ones, taunt at X stacks is not difficult. Stop complaining about DPS, your job is the easiest one and you are making mistakes, major mistakes.

  13. #113
    Pandaren Monk Daethz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Seems like a good article to refer to when debating that the healer/tank/dps three wing role MMO system dosent work.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Daethz View Post
    Seems like a good article to refer to when debating that the healer/tank/dps three wing role MMO system dosent work.
    It works just fine if the three roles are balanced well and feel completely different.

    In WoW, tanking is mind-numbingly easy, but has little space for error.
    Im not going to speak on healing because I dont do very much of it to a serious degree, but DPS is challenging, while at the same time having space for error.

    The problem is that people pick a tank, but manage to make an error and it has terrible consequences. It takes very little to not make an error, so it makes sense for it to be punishing, but this scares people away, especially in lower difficulties when the space for error for DPS is massive. They can go into a dps role and make error after error with both mechanics and their ability use, but it just doesnt cause problems, they dont get noticed for being terrible.

  15. #115

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by crunk View Post
    oh please, this was a flex 3 with a bunch of idiots and i was just being another idiot but i was the only one catching hell for it. of course i read the guides but theres a difference between seeing and doing. you're missing my point - jerks dieing to "simple tactics" like moving from a goddamn annihilate telegraph(same thing you've been doing since day 1 mop) is acceptable. taunting late, however, is not.

    my focus frame is all simplified for dps - it basically only tracks my dots and important debuffs. tank swap debuffs aren't exactly important information for a moonkin small things i overlooked before joining the raid. i was up front and honest about my experience too, so, like it seems like it would be pretty understandable and since they all seemed to be okay with it at first going from 0 to Asshole in 5 seconds (about how late on the taunt i was) is a little unwarranted.

    and it seriously takes 10 seconds to make a weak aura. click new, go to triggers, type in buff - DONE. if your time is soooo valuable you can't sit tight for 10 seconds then you have no business playing wow in the first place.

    all im sayin is that you gotta tank to learn how to tank and that involves other people. if you want more tanks in the game to make your stupid queues shorter maybe be a little patient with the fucking people trying to make that happen? besides, it wasn't even my fault we wiped.
    A DPS not knowing a mechanic is generally less punishing than a tank not knowing mechanic. That's one reason why people are more hateful towards bad tanks.

    Your focus frame excuse is bad. So because your main spec doesn't need the info, your off spec doesn't? Ill prepared, just like not knowing when to taunt.

    Might take 10 seconds to make a WA, but you should make it before entering. Would've taken you 10 seconds then as well, so why not? If you can't prepare before a boss fight you have no business raiding.

    This is part of why there's queues indeed. But don't think for a second the tank has nothing to do with it. People equip a sword and board, go jump into a dungeon and don't know what to do or what this mysterious "taunt!" is that people keep yelling about is.

    Next time, just read up on the fights from a tank PoV. Going in with no knowledge as a crucial role is pretty silly. If you were my co-tank I'd expect you to know at least the basics of all the fights, such as tank stacks, when and where to move during X or Y etc.
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