PUGs are getting ridiculous

[pkm]

These days, AotC and 14/14 clear doesn't seem to be enough. If your alt isnt 560+ ilvl its automatic no.

Just a few months ago this wasn't really an issue :S

Mod edit: Keep pug (dog breed) discussion out of this topic please.

[aziras]

There is a curve for the PUG'ers as well. Which means that now they only ones actually caring about gear are the ones that want to be carried.

Anyone else are spending their time now leveling alts. It makes very little difference if you start WoD with 560+ or 520+, so why bother chasing gear now.

[Octa]

There is a curve for the PUG'ers as well.

This is something a lot of people don't seem to get. People pugging now are largely in 2 groups.
1) Have not cleared content, have not raided much, have geared up quite a bit through celestials, ordos, vp upgrades, a few normal bosses, etc and now want to try their hand at full clearing SoO.
2) People who have cleared it and can't be bothered dealing with people doing anything subpar so they bring people who outgear it by a landslide to make it a non issue.

As the players who are willing to put in the time, deal with the content, figure things out and work a little bit do things finish up the next wave of people come in. You now have the players who legitimately think you need 570 ilvl to do Garrosh and then you have those who have done it enough times to not want to put work in again and 570 ilvl serves what they want to get done.
There are others running but those are the two camps you'll find most often on things like Open Raid.

I have done hundreds, possibly thousands, of challenge modes throughout the expansion and you're seeing the exact same thing with challenge modes now. First it was "know your class and have all consumables." Next it was "know your class, have all consumables and be 9/9 on a character already." Now it is "know your class, have all consumables, be 9/9 already and have 22+ gem sockets."

[87Octane]

Right, im sure group 2 (heirloom farmers) are the majority.

[Deja Thoris]

Just a few months ago this wasn't really an issue :S

Peoples gear inflates over the expac, its kind of a natural thing thats going to happen. Whats ridiculous is people making similar threads about the same shit every second day as if they just had some epiphany or deep insight into what most people just know is *human nature*

[mauserr]

This is something a lot of people don't seem to get. People pugging now are largely in 2 groups.
1) Have not cleared content, have not raided much, have geared up quite a bit through celestials, ordos, vp upgrades, a few normal bosses, etc and now want to try their hand at full clearing SoO.
2) People who have cleared it and can't be bothered dealing with people doing anything subpar so they bring people who outgear it by a landslide to make it a non issue.

As the players who are willing to put in the time, deal with the content, figure things out and work a little bit do things, the next wave come in. You now have the players who legitimately think you need 570 ilvl to do Garrosh and then you have those who have done it enough times to not want to put work in again and 570 ilvl serves what they want to get done.
There are others running but those are the two camps you'll find most often on things like Open Raid.

I have done hundreds, possibly thousands, of challenge modes throughout the expansion and you're seeing the exact same thing with challenge modes now. First it was "know your class and have all consumables." Next it was "know your class, have all consumables and be 9/9 on a character already." Now it is "know your class, have all consumables, be 9/9 already and have 22+ gem sockets."

Yes, it's funny. I'm gearing an alt(a warlock, mind you) which is 560 atm and people are looking down on it when asked for an invite. Who cares I'm 14/14 HC and I usually outdps almost everyone in the group, it's 560! Burn it! The same thing goes with challenge modes. On my rogue I have STRUGGLED with completing 9/9 gold, I had 2/9 gold and 14/14hc exp to back my l33t skillz up, but people still saw a melee with 2/9 gold and turned it down. Now I'm 4 manning it on a different character earning hundreds of thousands of gold for a couple of days of work while they struggled for hours with 9/9gold with a optimised class setup with a lot of gems.

It's sad the way it is now, but we can't really do anything to fix that. You can't fix people, sadly.

[melodramocracy]

I can't recall a time when pugs were anything other than ridiculous, to be fair.

[Lord Pebbleton]

I too would ask for high requirements, but just because I want to make it quick, and not die at 0.2% because Pug McRandom didn't pop his flask or had a LFR weapon.

[cFortyfive]

This tier lasts 11 months now and players are still shit so it's kinda bound to happen.

[jimmy valmer]

Just cheese the metres seriously. I do garrosh kills every week on my moderately geared rogue just turn on blade furry and get good dps cleaving adds. Raid leaders don't seem to care that my top damage is blade furry or just like seeing that dps being high.

Honestly you can be a good little guy with using defensive cooldowns properly and not standing in shit, save a raid member from death but God forbid your dps is low.

[Alakhazaam]

Yeah, GearScore = Skill has been an issue ever since that mod was first written. It pains me that blizzard actually put in gating based on avg item level, which has sort of given rise to "You need -Insert Arbitraty Item Value- to be good enough to do -Arbitrary Easy Instance-"

[Cheekun]

I think the abysmally poor performance of players in LFR has inevitably risen the gate of access to normal and flex modes. To this day people are absolutely terrible in LFR, It's not really a strech to assume that some people are intentionally gating the content by raising the item level requirement to keep these players out.

Yes, high item level cheeses the content as well, but in order to have such insanely high item levels you'd have to have at least some understanding of the content to get there.

I've found that linking my heroic thok achievement from months ago still gets me into a majority of pugs regardless of my item level, but I mostly heal and tank were encounter knowledge is sufficient to do well.

[Detheavn]

These days, AotC and 14/14 clear doesn't seem to be enough. If your alt isnt 560+ ilvl its automatic no.

Just a few months ago this wasn't really an issue :S

Starting your own pug mostly seems to fix this issue. You can be picky on other people's gear then

[Vaerys]

Starting your own pug mostly seems to fix this issue. You can be picky on other people's gear then

You can be picky but if you are trying to lead, you should at least have a clue about leading.

Joined a fresh SoO normal pug on my 568 ele shaman this weekend. Leader was asking for 560+ but I come to find out the leader was 530ish paladin tank. After 2 hours of premature pulls, stupid wipes, raid channel flaming, looking for a healer, and people joining and leaving ("not looking to carry, thx"), we wiped on protectors. I had said absolutely nothing up to this point. I had been patiently working in another window waiting for the group to fill.

Leader complains repeatedly about people being impatient.

Someone else in raid says "To be fair, it has been 2 hours"

Leader's response: "That's not my problem"

My response "it really is"

I was immediately removed, and wished the group good luck as I waited to be teleported to the graveyard. I ended up clearing through Klaxxi Paragons later in another group of legit 565-575 experienced players.

Actual gear had little to do with the issues in the fail group, but the leadership was even worse than the gear. It was practically LFR.

[Deleted]

Yes, their snouts are getting way too short. They can hardly breathe. They really shouldn't take breeds to such extremes.

Infracted;

[Debased]

Yes, their snouts are getting way too short. They can hardly breathe. They really shouldn't take breeds to such extremes.

Well I think you win.

[blackpink]

I too would ask for high requirements, but just because I want to make it quick, and not die at 0.2% because Pug McRandom didn't pop his flask or had a LFR weapon.

I've never been in a pug where we died on a boss at 0.2% or even 0.1% because of one derp (or multiple derps) doing incredibly low damage. It's always because some derp (or multiple derps) failed on a mechanic.

[Deleted]

I've never been in a pug where we died on a boss at 0.2% or even 0.1% because of one derp (or multiple derps) doing incredibly low damage. It's always because some derp (or multiple derps) failed on a mechanic.

Also, the derp (or multiple derps) that lack dps are somehow magically bound to the 100-150k dps range, no matter the gear, even if you stuff them with ilvl 570. The non-derp (or multiple non-derps) who just pull usefull numbers will hit 200k dps the moment they are allowed to qeue for the last wing of flex and will continue to climb up the dps ladder the more gear you give them.

[Mormolyce]

Getting? Pugs have demanded higher ILVL than the instance for as long as ILVL has existed. Before that it was gearscore too...

People want a free ride, and apparently they manage to get it.

On my rogue I have STRUGGLED with completing 9/9 gold, I had 2/9 gold and 14/14hc exp to back my l33t skillz up, but people still saw a melee with 2/9 gold and turned it down. Now I'm 4 manning it on a different character earning hundreds of thousands of gold for a couple of days of work while they struggled for hours with 9/9gold with a optimised class setup with a lot of gems.

I'll be honest, I'm 12x9/9, I've done one rogue and I'm working on another, but when I recruit for CMs I always turn rogues down.

Makes me feel like an asshole but the fact of the matter is they just don't bring nearly as much to the table as Ele shams, Destro locks, Frost mages, Surv hunters. I really hope Blizzard makes certain specs less shithouse in WoD CMs.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, GearScore = Skill has been an issue ever since that mod was first written. It pains me that blizzard actually put in gating based on avg item level, which has sort of given rise to "You need -Insert Arbitraty Item Value- to be good enough to do -Arbitrary Easy Instance-"

It's not their fault, pugs will do this kind of thing regardless.

[Chuupag]

I have done hundreds, possibly thousands, of challenge modes throughout the expansion and you're seeing the exact same thing with challenge modes now. First it was "know your class and have all consumables." Next it was "know your class, have all consumables and be 9/9 on a character already." Now it is "know your class, have all consumables, be 9/9 already and have 22+ gem sockets."

22 gems? Seriously? I think I have 21 in my cmode gear and I'm a Blacksmith and only missing like 2 BiS pieces. Not to derail the thread or anything but dayum.