For being popular WoW has terrible design.

[taliey]

Sounds like this game would do better without people like you.

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Leveling was more time consuming. Raids and dungeons where easier. You where a worse player, as where everyone else.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

PvE has gotten a lot harder over the years. Dont believe me? go try it. I did

I actually hope the people who keep complaining and shouting "WOW SUCKS" from the rooftops actually leave.

For people who seem to threaten leaving WoW, they sure go out of their way to tell others that they're leaving, rather than take the step that they should have been taking - quitting.

I've quit and left WoW on amicable terms, and I'm often back for more content.

I just wonder why they keep going through the same exercise.

[Deleted]

At no point in my post did I say Vanilla was difficult. What I should have elaborated on is that if the game still required the grinding and time consumption it took to do things back then all these players who can't even simply take the time to learn their class (majority, especially in LFR) would all end up unsubbing killing WoWs population. The game would not survive.

Explain then, dumbed down from what?

[Heldamon]

Wow was successful because warcraft 123 were popular. When people that played warcraft series got older or bored or just moved on with their lives wow had nothing to offer to youngsters.

[tj119]

Explain then, dumbed down from what?

CC irrelevant, 5 mans have been a joke for 3 expansions now. An island full of welfare epics. A Legendary any and every player should have and if you don't good luck ever getting into a raid guild. Threat might as well be removed from the game because unless you blow your load before the tank ever touches the game it's completely irrelevant. The entire game sadly even PvP now revolves around a stupid 3 digit number instead of achievements and how well you actually know how to play. (LFM Flex 1-4 560+ilvl!) (LFM for 3s 550+ ilvl). When you have a fresh 90 unless you're in a guild to carry it through flex/normal SoO you're forced to deal with LFR players who have 520+ ilvls still pulling 50k dps, players constantly AFKing and people queing as tank/heals coming in as dps. Previous MoP tiers might as well be removed from the game because once you're done on Timeless isle you hop straight into SoO LFR. It's a game catered to "gimme gimme, and gimme right now".

[Deleted]

CC irrelevant, 5 mans have been a joke for 3 expansions now. An island full of welfare epics. A Legendary any and every player should have and if you don't good luck ever getting into a raid guild. Threat might as well be removed from the game because unless you blow your load before the tank ever touches the game it's completely irrelevant. The entire game sadly even PvP now revolves around a stupid 3 digit number instead of achievements and how well you actually know how to play. (LFM Flex 1-4 560+ilvl!) (LFM for 3s 550+ ilvl). When you have a fresh 90 unless you're in a guild to carry it through flex/normal SoO you're forced to deal with LFR players who have 520+ ilvls still pulling 50k dps, players constantly AFKing and people queing as tank/heals coming in as dps. Previous MoP tiers might as well be removed from the game because once you're done on Timeless isle you hop straight into SoO LFR. It's a game catered to "gimme gimme, and gimme right now".

5 man cataclysm dungeons a joke?
An island full of shitty catch up gear. The colour is irrelevant.
The legendary suckd yeah(has nothing to do with dumbing down anything)
Threat isnt removed. I can pull aggro of any tank in lfr and flex.
No, the game doesnt revolve around ilvl. If it does for you, thats your problem. And again has nothing to do with it being dumbed down.
Players afking is the exact same as vanilla.

The game isnt gimme gimme, it just has a built in catch up mechanic so its actually possible for raiders to catch up a bit outside of being carried from gear 0 by their guild(this actually makes sense huh?)
Yeha lfr sucks, luclily they can be replaced with dungeons in WoD. Blizzard learned from this.

Your view is biased and not at all objective so any further discussion with you is pointless(also most of the things you say are plain wrong)

[tj119]

Your view is biased and not at all objective so any further discussion with you is pointless(also most of the things you say are plain wrong)

You chose to reply, good riddance.

[Equoowe]

even PvP now revolves around a stupid 3 digit number instead of achievements and how well you actually know how to play.

So you think its more about gear then skill in a system where everybody has the same gear, makes sense.

[tj119]

So you think its more about gear then skill in a system where everybody has the same gear, makes sense.

I'm saying when you see people asking in trade they're asking for Ilvl, not achievements. I don't give a fuck what happens on your server. But since returning to WoW that's what I see and what happens on mine.

When I link my 2200 achievements and get turned down because I'm mostly 522 instead of full 550 that's plain retarded.

[Adominitis]

I get it. You have an opinion. If you want to be taken seriously you can at least present it in a way that doesn't make you look like a sensitive casual who enjoys handouts and free lewts.

Casuals are what's keeping this game alive noob.

[Amerissis]

(..)go rob you for everything, making you start over. Sounds fun? Also painful huh... lol. THATS THE GAME MAN.

Yeah, sounds like fun, playing for months and have it all taken away in an instant... You do realize that you will be ganking yourself really, really soon, right? There are games that work like this and the people that play them know this and chose it, which works great (EVE online f.i.), but you can't suddenly change the rules of an existing game and think the players will be fine with it.

I feel like if you honestly sit back and look at what Blizzard did, they grabbed all the old MMO dev's(EQ,Ultima,Warhammer) and asked them, "what went wrong with your game to lose subs the way it did?" Well its simple really, PLAYER PROTECTION.

The LACK of player protection is exactly why EQ, Ultima and Warhammer are less popular then WoW, so you're refuting your own point. Weird.

All in all, this is your opinion, which you are obviously entitled to, but the numbers speak for themselves. WoW is 10 years old and still has millions of players, more then any other MMORPG ever had. However flawed their design may be in your eyes, it works wonderfully well. Your ideas may make the game more fun for you and a select group of players, but in the end it will costs Blizzard millions more players then it will gain.

TLDR: Go play a different game and stop trying to turn this one into something else entirely.

[Equoowe]

I'm saying when you see people asking in trade they're asking for Ilvl, not achievements. I don't give a fuck what happens on your server. But since returning to WoW that's what I see and what happens on mine.

When I link my 2200 achievements and get turned down because I'm mostly 522 instead of full 550 that's plain retarded.

People don't know if you are good or not and having bad gear makes it even harder to tell plus it puts them at a big disadvantage, why would they take you over some other random with 2200 and full gear? at this point in the season with catchup mechanics there is no reason you can't have full gear other then you haven't put in the effort which is another reason people wouldn't want to play with you.

If you were a multi-Gladiator that was under geared it would be a different story.

[fixx]

I started playing in 2008 after attunements were removed

stopped reading after attunments were shit. Obviously this guy was stuck in Karazhan all TBC. this guy is just talking out of his ass.

That's rich coming from a guy who started playing the game after attunements were removed. I really shows you don't understand because you have no real first hand knowledge of it, but attunements were actually shit. If you ask from anybody who was raid leader or guild officer during TBC if they'd want attunements back the answer would be "over my dead body", 100% guaranteed. It's only the wrath babies who want attunements back.

Maybe you should go back and read what I posted and learn something else new you missed during the early years of the game when you werent playing.

[tj119]

If you were a multi-Gladiator that was under geared it would be a different story.

I'm a 2x glad. His response was "Idc care what titles you think make you good 550+ or not at all"

I'm not mad I got turned down, I just found it mind boggling people let a number influence them that much lmao

[Deleted]

I am so confused by this thread.

All the reasons you listed for wow being badly designed is exactly the reasons that they still has 7 million subs 10 years after launch (i.e. popular).

So so so confused....

If you want a niche MMO there are plenty out there and doing well, if you want mass market then play WoW.

[Deleted]

Yeah because thats the reason Wildstar failed...it couldnt be the extremely childish look, every spell being AoE, floaty movement, badly optimized engine.

They had the right ideas with oldschool stuff, but they failed with everything else.

In your opinion perhaps, I loved the Wildstar combat as well as movement, it was way more fun than WoW's. The reason I didn't stick around was because in the end it felt like the same old, same old. Grind the same quests for days to level up to max level, proceed to grind dungeons for better gear to then grind raids for better gear.

Wildstar combat: Fun and responsive, lots of shit going on all the time around you.

WoW combat: Kind of stale and slow, they've added tons of procs that you need to respond to, in order to make it even remotely fun.

I'm kind of sick and tired of the whole concept, the only reason I'm still willing to do it in WoW is because I do it all with my guild whom I love dearly.

[Deleted]

I'm saying when you see people asking in trade they're asking for Ilvl, not achievements. I don't give a fuck what happens on your server. But since returning to WoW that's what I see and what happens on mine.

When I link my 2200 achievements and get turned down because I'm mostly 522 instead of full 550 that's plain retarded.

Whats retarded is you complaining instead of making your own group.

See people use the system how they want. Its not wows problem, its people.

People looking for highilvl runs want fast runs.

You arent going to pull 250k dps with 522, so thats why they dont want you.

If thats the case, make your own run, and you call the shots. Dont be a whiny crybaby

Infracted

[tj119]

Whats retarded is you complaining instead of making your own group.

See people use the system how they want. Its not wows problem, its people.

People looking for highilvl runs want fast runs.

You arent going to pull 250k dps with 522, so thats why they dont want you.

If thats the case, make your own run, and you call the shots. Dont be a whiny crybaby

Me stating my observations and experiences on my server is complaining and being a "whiny crybaby".

You must have the IQ of a pig with down syndrome, stop replying to me please I have no time for 16 year olds.

Infracted

[Wries]

No I think having 7 different modes of Siege of Orgrimmar makes for excellent end-game content. Once you're geared up past one difficulty you just go in and do it again. Doesn't that sound like fun progression? Does to me! And to blizzard! Blizzard get to point at their statistics and say "hai guys look at how many who got to see latest raid content ololol".

Yes I do miss the times where raiding had tiers for a reason. It was way more fun progressing my character in TBC since when I joined during 2.3 people were still forming groups for ALL the different raids and I got to see some variety. Not only that, groups who went into "old raids" were often appropriately geared for it, so the challenge was still there, which made it still fun.

I feel absolutely no incentive for gearing up my character in MoP-times.

[taliey]

I'm a 2x glad. His response was "Idc care what titles you think make you good 550+ or not at all"

I'm not mad I got turned down, I just found it mind boggling people let a number influence them that much lmao

Some people tunnel vision in activities other than PvP or Raiding.

If there is one thing that the WoW community suffers from, its number fetishism. The bigger, the better, amirite?

Gearscore, iLevel, rating... lol.

Because somehow numbers = reflection of a individual's worth.

[Dukenukem]

If you ask from anybody who was raid leader or guild officer during TBC if they'd want attunements back the answer would be "over my dead body", 100% guaranteed. It's only the wrath babies who want attunements back.

Well, As guildmaster of that time I have this opinion.
Attunements were at least "some" indicator of dedication (at least the Kara one). If we stick to the Kara attunement, if you were not able to make it in week you simply should work better on your skill, friends to get it.

More higher attunements like BT/MH one is different story, those were actually major pain to drag people through on off raiding day (we raided 6 days/week back than, so when group was not atuned to run BT/MH).

I would return attunements only if they were account wide and only apply for current tier of raiding (much like TK/SSC were removed with 2.1, and later BT/MH with 2.4), just leave "key" for the leader so there is at least one person with attunement for every run. Also attunements for Mythic only.