Siegecrafter HC issues

[Deleted]

Hi

My guild is having some issues while doing siegecrafter, where most of the time either people die, and we have only really gotten through EMP/Laser phase once with the whole raid alive, and we did it by popping everything we got during the EMP phase for the damage output.

We run with the tactics of killing: mines, mines, laser, mines etc.. and we've tried going with killing missles but we just can't seem to group the mines together fast enough.

Anything wrong in positioning etc can be seen;

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...r1QDj#fight=10

I don't know what everyone keeps dying from, if we need to change something, so i would appreciate anything u can say, whether we're doing it wrong or not, something needs to either change or we just needs to keep at it.

Cheers

[trystero]

Almost every death leading up to a wipe (first 2 deaths) is due to a Shockwave Missile. I don't do 10H so I cannot advise you on the order of adds to kill, but that's what keeps wiping your raid.

[Mystrome]

The whole trick there is avoiding taking damage.

It's ok to do zero dps when the room is on fire, especially the people who keep dieing during that phase. The healers can be stressed out during that bit when others are failing AND having to keep the tanks alive. Focus on staying in the safe spots and avoiding the shockwaves, flames and blades. Pop personal CD's if you have to. Selfheal if you can/have to. Wait till the phase is over and repeat. The boss should be dead before you get to face "hell breaking lose" again, or shortly into it. If DPS is an issue don't worry. It's more important to learn not taking damage first. Once everyone feels comfortable you can start doing dps again during.

Make sure to kill the overcharged Missiles before they go off a 3rd time. You can melee them from outside of the smallest ring the 1st time they pop up, avoiding all and any dmg from them fairly easily.

[Adhemar]

We run with the tactics of killing: mines, mines, laser, mines etc.. and we've tried going with killing missles but we just can't seem to group the mines together fast enough.

My 10-man also failed miserably at mines (somewhat due to having too many melee in a strict 10-man roster) but you have to deal with them sooner or later. No one should be taking damage from missiles (literally the easiest mechanic of the fight).

Do a postmortem of every fight and figure out why people are dying (it will be different with every attempt). Figure out what went wrong and why and fix it. Clean out the mistakes one-by-one and you'll get there.

[Deja Thoris]

I don't know what everyone keeps dying from,

Cheers

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...=6&type=deaths

It takes all of 5 seconds to see what people die from. Just click on the deaths tab. That wipe was shockwave missiles. This is a survival fight so work on avoiding bad stuff.

[TheCapn23]

My guild killed Siegecrafter a few weeks ago. We went with Mines, Mines, Missile Turret, Mines, Mines etc. It seems getting an empowered missile while you still have the fire rings up + magnet would be difficult. With empowered magnet there is nothing to kill, you can focus on staying alive. There's also no required movement to reach the turrets. Just my 2c.

The whole part of the fight are belts 2-3, once you survive that part consistently a kill will be soon. Like others have mentioned, you just have to stay alive even if it means zero dps.

[Deleted]

You can actually do 10hc siegecrafter without healer
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...6&type=summary

[Wilderness]

You can actually do 10hc siegecrafter without healer
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...6&type=summary

That's great for them, but its not exactly relevant for a guild progressing on the fight - they aren't going to be looking at anything near a 1:22 kill time.

[Deja Thoris]

You can actually do 10hc siegecrafter without healer
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...6&type=summary

Gz on the fastest logged kill of the boss. Are you that hard up for attention that you had to post that as an attempt to "help" the OP?

[announced]

its always best to kill mines or laser whenever u can. missiles are a joke. ur group just needs to learn how to properly avoid them during the laser phase while also avoiding saw blades. its a tall order but u guys can do it. every class can save a defensive CD for that phase as it tends to be the only tough phase in the fight. also. make sure u stack sawblades in an area. when my group pulls the boss we tend to tank him in the opposite corner from where hes currently moving, while the ranged stand stacked in the direct center of the room. healers may be a bit closer to the melee if necessary.

the shockwave missile turrets will spawn based on where the ranged are standing so, hopefully they arent too far left or right of the boss. the lock should be focusing the turrets having havoc+ backdraft chaos bolt ready for them if hes not doing so already. theres 3 that spawn after the shredder, then i think 2 or 3 unkillable missile turrets during the EMP laser phase. all of your raid should be using defensive cds while avoiding sawblades. I tend to stick my sawblades at the very edge of the outer fire so they arent disrupting the melee. once the fire vanishes the magnets are still going but its easier to move around, still just avoid the blades.

depending on the DPS on the boss u should get mines eventually but just try and blow them up ASAP. although if the boss is under like 30m hp by then u could just focus him instead.

even with a melee heavy group id suggest killing the missiles. they only have like 6m hp and its just 1 target. i tend to solo them as a lock.
heres our log. http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...mmary&source=9

[Herecius]

I like how you used this opportunity to brag about your kill. Sadly I don't think most of us care you zerged a boss while overgearing it by 25 ilvls. Your post is not constructive at all and it no way will help the OP kill the boss. This is not a very good place to attempt to boost your ego and rub it in to people like OP who haven't killed it the intended way yet.

I suspect his point was to show that Siegecrafter is really almost entirely about avoidable damage. If players are taking fatal spikes of damage, then they failed to avoid something they could've taken 0 damage from, essentially. Yeah he wasn't very tactful about it, but fact is, OP's raiders are dying to 100% avoidable damage, and he should not place the burden upon his healers to try and heal those mistakes.

[Dasani]

The strategy my guild has always used and that I highly recommend using is always killing shockwave missiles.

The shockwaves are the hardest and most annoying thing to avoid, and empowered shockwaves are kind of nightmareish with all the overlapping waves of shit that will kill you.

By always killing them, you only have to deal with simple shit like mines and lasers. And for lasers you just run directly away, for mines you just slow and nuke them. Melee just have to run away when mines are spawning till they've picked targets, then run back in and keep DPSing. Ranged slow and stun the mines and burn them down. Tank boss where mines spawn. You can aoe them to death pretty easily and get slows on them as soon as they spawn.

For belt team just always kill shockwave missile. On belts where there is no shockwave missile, there will always be 2 of something, so you just kill the rear item that there's 2 of. It's that simple. IIRC I believe its bombs then lasers, as the duplicates, and fight will be over before any others.

When you have to deal with shockwave missile, your entire raid has to move around quite a bit and quite frequently. If you DONT have shockwave missiles ever, you can have several predetermined exact places to stand and just alternate. Only time you stop standing in the stack is to run laser away from the group or if you get targeted for saws drop it to one side of your group, either left or right, but be consistent with the side. Dropping saws behind the group will kill you when magnet comes up and kiting laser anywhere but directly away will cause other difficulties.

It is the easiest strategy for doing the fight and honestly the only thing you have to know is "laser run back", "saws run left", or maybe it was saws run right, i dont remember cause i'm a tank and I dont give a shit what the ranged do.

I didn't look at the logs cause i'm kinda tired and lazy to boot, but one of the most dangerous things on this fight is the AOE damage being done by the shredders. They pulse high aoe damage periodically and it increases in damage with each pulse. This damage is unavoidable per se, the only way to avoid it is to kill the shredder faster. If you can kill them mad fast, your raid takes less damage.

If your tanks are good at killing shredders and you do the kill shockwave missiles method, your raid will be practically invulnerable aside from mistakes like getting hit with a saw or standing in fire. You only have to keep the raid alive from shredder damage, nothing else should ever hurt any of them.

Edit: This is just speculation, because as I said I don't really pay attention to such things, but perhaps when the laser targets someone is their queue to move to the next marked stack position and you probably always drop saws to the left to keep the right area open and clear because you're going left to right in stacked positions. I'd assume by the time you get all the way to the right is when the magnet comes out and clears all the saws then you run all the way back to the left stack point and repeat. I think thats how it works, but thats just my speculation as I just stand there and tank shit. But by having everyone stacked aoe healing becomes a breeze, theres never any danger of people just dropping dead unless the shredder takes too long to die or people fuck up saws or something. It also makes mines easier to deal with because they're all moving toward the exact same place and thus will naturally start to clump up and are easier to AOE.

[Deleted]

I suspect his point was to show that Siegecrafter is really almost entirely about avoidable damage. If players are taking fatal spikes of damage, then they failed to avoid something they could've taken 0 damage from, essentially. Yeah he wasn't very tactful about it, but fact is, OP's raiders are dying to 100% avoidable damage, and he should not place the burden upon his healers to try and heal those mistakes.

TBH it was a bit both. Mostly that they could drop one healer away and just learn to avoid damage, since only unavoidable damage is from shredders overload which is easily dealt with and magnets storm which required some raidcd. Outside of those, healer isn't even needed.
But I admit I had to brag since we actually managed to kill it with only one belt without healer. I was so thrilled about it and I just had to share it without creating new topic about it so posted here. Sorry about that.

[Dracodraco]

I suspect his point was to show that Siegecrafter is really almost entirely about avoidable damage. If players are taking fatal spikes of damage, then they failed to avoid something they could've taken 0 damage from, essentially. Yeah he wasn't very tactful about it, but fact is, OP's raiders are dying to 100% avoidable damage, and he should not place the burden upon his healers to try and heal those mistakes.

Well, at 1:22, that means with nothing happening for the first 30 seconds, they managed to get 2x lasers to kite, 1x set of empowered bombs, then a set of normal bombs and a empowered laser that can be completly ignored. So yes, you can avoid all the damage with such a short fight. It gets a bit harder with a normal killtime.

@ OP:
Assuming your hunter and WW monk are both doing every belt, I'd really revert to trying to deal with mines rather than missiles. Your setup is great for it - ele shaman to AOE them down, destro lock to smash them with 1 shot chaos bolts, the strongest control tank (DK) who can keep them perma slowed with chillblains / aoe grips etc, AND a backup frost DK who can do the same. Two Ursols vortexes from the druids aswell... You just need to make sure that people actually switch to the mines when they're up. Tanking it on my DK, I could single handedly smash almost every empowered bomb before it left melee by spreading diseases and hammering it with RS/DS rather than just nuking the boss.

[Deja Thoris]

TBH it was a bit both. Mostly that they could drop one healer away and just learn to avoid damage, since only unavoidable damage is from shredders overload which is easily dealt with and magnets storm which required some raidcd. Outside of those, healer isn't even needed.
But I admit I had to brag since we actually managed to kill it with only one belt without healer. I was so thrilled about it and I just had to share it without creating new topic about it so posted here. Sorry about that.

When fights are disproportionately short the value of hybrids is higher. Your 2 shamans and dru did 120k hps between them for the duration of the fight and over that length of time tanks can look after themselves. Most people take 2 healers because if one has to kite (lasers / mines) then it can lead to problems.

[Lewlies]

With someone that's been through where you are.... I would suggest going back to killing turrets on the belt. As you know it completely removes a mechanic from the fight (as there is never a double missile turret until the way end).


I would tank the boss by the belt where the monk/hunter jump on. Gives you significantly more time to kill mines with ranged.

Do you have any engineers in the group? If you do, their EMP belt enchant is REALLY good for this fight. In addition you can have the ELE Shammy glyph capacitor and use that with locks Shadowfury, Thunderstorm(ele shammy), Fist of Justice (holy pali), Gorefiends grasp (DK and grip to a spot to allow Lock to shadow fury a huge group)

You have SO much utility especially with sending the same two people on the belt the whole time and in some cases if the weapon is the last one needing to be killed, the hunter can lay down a binding shot to additionally help with mines.

[Deleted]

Thank you for all help guys we finally downed him tonight sorry I haven't responded. We kept on going with having missles and as soon as we got that face over we got a kill soon after xD super happy