Monk tanks: Faction change to Horde.

[Xequecal]

This is a pretty big issue that I've not seen come up yet. In case you weren't aware, four of the ilvl660 epic PvP gears (head/shoulders/wrist/boots) that come out of Ashran are itemized for Mastery/Versatility. Since these two secondaries are vastly superior to any others for Monk tanks, that means success here is going to be pretty mandatory for entry level Mythic tanking.

Mastery/Versatility are so good that a 660 item is better than a 670 (Highmaul Heroic) item that doesn't have Mastery/Versatility. As such, when there are no Mastery/Versatility items available from Highmaul Heroic, the PvP stuff is BiS until you get Mythic drops. If you want to min/max as a tank going into Mythic, you need to PvP.

Mastery/Versatility legs/gloves/ring are available from Heroic Highmaul. Combine that with the PvP head/shoulders/wrist/boots, the legendary ring, and using a crafted weapon, chest, necklace, and cloak that you reroll to mastery/versatility, (cloak does not count towards 3-crafted limit) you can get a 660+ Mastery/Versatility item in EVERY slot. (except trinkets, but you obviously can't get mastery/versatility on trinkets)

However, to do this, you must succeed in PvP. The epic PvP gear requires 500 artifact fragments per item, which can be farmed from Ashran mobs or other players. However, Ashran has a mechanic where you lose half of ALL the fragments you own whenever you die, which means to get an item you have to survive for quite a long time, at least 100 HKs or be completely unmolested farming for hours. Ashran is a 100v100 zone that you can't steamroll with a premade. Considering how bad Alliance is at PvP, your only realistic chance to get this loot is to be Horde.

[leggomydairy]

this was annoying from start to finish.
when will people stop crying about what's BiS and just play what they like

[Phookah]

this was annoying from start to finish.
when will people stop crying about what's BiS and just play what they like

When they don't raid cutting edge content. Worry about yourself.
OT: While this sucks, its not like you can't get loot as alliance, it just takes longer.

[Xequecal]

When they don't raid cutting edge content. Worry about yourself.
OT: While this sucks, its not like you can't get loot as alliance, it just takes longer.

You lose half of all accumulated fragments when you are killed in Ashran. Alliance is bad enough at PvP that surviving long enough to collect 500 will be virtually impossible. It'll be pretty hard on Horde as well to be honest, but not impossible like it is on Alliance.

[Alexanderjac]

Depends on server. You can also just keep spamming ranged attacks and hiding and you lose nothing.

[Mirishka]

Well this was 30ish seconds of my life I'll never get back.

Infracted - please keep posts constructive.

[DechCJC]

I was very interested in your post, I was trying to figure in my head why on earth you would need to faction change your monk. I was quite disappointed when I found out that you were just another 'MY FACTION ALWAYS LOSES" person. Seriously, for a start human is the best race for PvP (slightly better than orc) and also is fairly popular regardless, loads of good players play alliance. I really don't know what people are talking about when people say that Ally/Horde sucks in general, you're just thinking of your negative BG experiences and pretending that they encompass 99% of your games. Horde has a slightly higher win rate in the smaller bgs and a high win rate in Strand, while Ally has a massive lead in the 40 man bgs with it being nearly a 100% win rate.

You don't have to faction change anything, I guarantee that if you go horde you'll still lose just as much (This coming from someone that pvps on both factions very frequently).

[Shamanberry]

I know it's a tough mental block to get around, but EH optimization is not 95% of tank gearing/strategy anymore. It's not as though EH is BAD, but you aren't fighting to avoid getting 1-shot, you're fighting to keep your health bar on the high end so healers don't have to focus an undue amount of attention and mana on you. Avoidance does that just as well as being a damage sponge that takes a little less damage.

"Fill every slot with Mastery/Versatility" is not a good gearing strategy, particularly when you're talking about losing ilevels/stats in the process.

[Totaltotemic]

"High-end raiding" and "faction change for minor upgrades" are completely incompatible if you have this thing that people normally raid with called a guild.

Are you seriously suggesting that someone should faction change and leave their guild, or faction change only to faction change back after a week or two just for a better chance (which is a ridiculous assertion in and of itself) at gear that is minorly better than non-warforged heroic Highmaul gear?

Is this a joke, or are you not aware that no one actually cares enough about some PvP gear to pay $30 and leave their guild, or pay $60 just to get back to it?

[Jocias]

This is a pretty big issue that I've not seen come up yet. In case you weren't aware, four of the ilvl660 epic PvP gears (head/shoulders/wrist/boots) that come out of Ashran are itemized for Mastery/Versatility. Since these two secondaries are vastly superior to any others for Monk tanks, that means success here is going to be pretty mandatory for entry level Mythic tanking.

Mastery/Versatility are so good that a 660 item is better than a 670 (Highmaul Heroic) item that doesn't have Mastery/Versatility. As such, when there are no Mastery/Versatility items available from Highmaul Heroic, the PvP stuff is BiS until you get Mythic drops. If you want to min/max as a tank going into Mythic, you need to PvP.

Mastery/Versatility legs/gloves/ring are available from Heroic Highmaul. Combine that with the PvP head/shoulders/wrist/boots, the legendary ring, and using a crafted weapon, chest, necklace, and cloak that you reroll to mastery/versatility, (cloak does not count towards 3-crafted limit) you can get a 660+ Mastery/Versatility item in EVERY slot. (except trinkets, but you obviously can't get mastery/versatility on trinkets)

However, to do this, you must succeed in PvP. The epic PvP gear requires 500 artifact fragments per item, which can be farmed from Ashran mobs or other players. However, Ashran has a mechanic where you lose half of ALL the fragments you own whenever you die, which means to get an item you have to survive for quite a long time, at least 100 HKs or be completely unmolested farming for hours. Ashran is a 100v100 zone that you can't steamroll with a premade. Considering how bad Alliance is at PvP, your only realistic chance to get this loot is to be Horde.

Do you have sims or anything else that backs up the assertion that PvP gear 10 ilvls lower than PvE gear is actually an upgrade? You lose a lot of armor, agi, and secondary stat points (albeit less valuable per point) by using the PvP gear. On top of that, it's a little crazy to tell everyone who wants to get the PvP gear to faction change to Horde. It's entirely possible to get that gear as Alliance. It might take a bit longer if you're not going into Ashran with a posse of good players to protect you, but it's entirely doable.

[Deleted]

If you're alliance can't you group up with guildies to facilitate this? Yes its a 100v100 zone but what are the odds that there is always a huge coordinated group on the other side? Pretty slim imo.

Its certainly something to keep in mind, but I don't think it warrants the transferring.

[Xequecal]

Ok, the "faction change to Horde" was admittedly a hyperbolic title somewhat fueled by the memory of the rage I felt by the time I finished the PvP part of my legendary cloak quest. (87 BGs to finish)

However, this is a real issue and a real problem. Even something like a 40/60 advantage for Horde is still a huge problem with getting it on Alliance, because the requirement is "get dozens of kills without dying at all." You basically have to win several rounds in succession and then get lucky on top of that, and that's far, far more difficult with a 40% win rate than a 60% win rate.

The fact remains that Haste and Multistrike are very, very low value stats for Monk tanks, and Mastery is absurdly important. It increases EH, decreases damage taken, and increases damage output. It also has exponential scaling where each point is worth more than the previous point. A 660 Mastery/Versatility item is definitely superior to any 670 item without Mastery, and arguably superior to something like Mastery/Haste or Multistrike as well.

[banur]

"High-end raiding" and "faction change for minor upgrades" are completely incompatible if you have this thing that people normally raid with called a guild.

Are you seriously suggesting that someone should faction change and leave their guild, or faction change only to faction change back after a week or two just for a better chance (which is a ridiculous assertion in and of itself) at gear that is minorly better than non-warforged heroic Highmaul gear?

Is this a joke, or are you not aware that no one actually cares enough about some PvP gear to pay $30 and leave their guild, or pay $60 just to get back to it?

High-end raiding is not cutting edge raiding. Players and even guilds WILL faction change when there are enough "minor" upgrades to give them the edge. Yes there is a case for necessity and the majority of high-end raiders don't need to go to this extreme, but when you are in Method/ Paragon/ ... and you tackle bosses without having gear other than dungeon, BMAH, crafted, PVP and world drops, items that are "easy" to aquire because they are not raid drops become so much more valueable.

Money is no concern in those cases.

[Totaltotemic]

High-end raiding is not cutting edge raiding. Players and even guilds WILL faction change when there are enough "minor" upgrades to give them the edge. Yes there is a case for necessity and the majority of high-end raiders don't need to go to this extreme, but when you are in Method/ Paragon/ ... and you tackle bosses without having gear other than dungeon, BMAH, crafted, PVP and world drops, items that are "easy" to aquire because they are not raid drops become so much more valueable.

Money is no concern in those cases.

Name one person that visits this forum that is playing a BrM in a top 10 world guild in WoD.

[Henriksson]

Name one person that visits this forum that is playing a BrM in a top 10 world guild in WoD.

Well, you never know if there are some last minute buffs to BrM, just like every other tier transition something gets nerfed/buffed at the very end or even start of the tier. This tier disc might ring a bell.

OP raises a good point, outside of faction changing, that is wishful thinking that it will go better as horde. It's nothing new having to pvp for gear. We did it in MoP, don't see it changing. T14/Season 12 PvP-bonus Hpala <3.

[Totaltotemic]

Well, you never know if there are some last minute buffs to BrM, just like every other tier transition something gets nerfed/buffed at the very end or even start of the tier. This tier disc might ring a bell.

OP raises a good point, outside of faction changing, that is wishful thinking that it will go better as horde. It's nothing new having to pvp for gear. We did it in MoP, don't see it changing. T14/Season 12 PvP-bonus Hpala <3.

PvPing for gear that will be good in PvE is as old as the game itself, it's nothing new. The idea that you should faction change just for a slightly better chance at said gear though is what's new, and ridiculous. Even if that was something someone did want to do though, posting on MMO-Champion to try to let people in world first guilds know about something like this is a very silly way to try to get that accomplished. I highly doubt the thought even went that far anyways, this is more like an "Ashran gear is too hard to get" post disguised as a "One neat trick to get better BrM gear: just faction change!" post.

Of course, this is ignoring the absurdity of the fact that if you really cared about such a thing then Night Elf 2% dodge racial is far more important and it'd be a lot easier to simply get the guild together to stomp Ashran for gear than faction changing on your own to do it.

[Deleted]

The most absurb statement is that Horde will overpower Alliance in Ashran. They won't.

[gummybear]

I don't see how monks, as squishy leather dps, are going to kill 500 mobs/players and still be alive. Sure if you're a ranged dps who can hide behind others. But a front-line leatherwearer?? You're gonna be focus-fired down so fast it won't even be funny. And with Touch of Karma or the amazing "run away and heal" as the only defensive cooldowns, I don't see monks doing that well on Horde either.