best but affordable video card for SFF (Small Form Factor) recommendation

[jackfrost]

Thanks jackfrost,

I wil check on the Galaxy 750 TI who seems to be only available at Galaxy tech US.

Note that I linked the galaxy because that's the one I have, so I have 1st hand experience with it.

Gigabyte does sell one though: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814125680

I bought one just to compare the two, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

[noczwf]

Note that I linked the galaxy because that's the one I have, so I have 1st hand experience with it.

Gigabyte does sell one though: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814125680

I bought one just to compare the two, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

oh nice let me know if you expect test it soon.
but i can see that :
the galaxy have 2 dvi and the gigabyte only 1
The galaxy have 1 HDMI and the gigabyte 2

Also the gigabyte do seems to come with the SFF bracket and seems to require more power...
Price seems comparable.

[Raphtheone]

after that i will have to make a difficult choice new build or go with the 750 ti
knowing this will be use maily for gaming wow and diablo
[...]
it is a : Intel Core i5-2400

I did some "high end" raiding in Cataclysm with a 240GT. A 750Ti is in my opinion the strongest possible GPU you should get given your circumstances, and in terms of performance you need absolutely nothing above it. Here's a rough comparison between your current graphics card and the 750 Ti. Spend those $1k on a trip with your wife instead. Also, your CPU will last a few more years (even if it's the 2400S), assuming your needs won't change drastically.

You are right not to trust that answer, as a 450w psu minimum is recommended for that card.

There are several single-fan versions of the nvidia 750ti for ITX cases.
Officially the requirement is 300w, but that "may" be assuming a poor quality PSU.
Replacing the PSU may not be a bad idea anyway, for safety sake.

The PSU requirements aren't for specific cards, but for whole systems. With a low watt CPU and a frugal system, you can pull off a 660 on 200/250W, as it (the reference model) has a ceiling of 75+75W. But when they do these suggestions, they assume worst case scenarios, and then add a lot of headroom for PSU degradation/extra HDD's and other power sucking stuff. In normal scenarios, I think it's safe to simply divide recommended power by 2 or 1,5 (depending on how ludicrous the recommendation), and then do manual adjustments according to the individual system.

Seeing as the OP has a SFF case, odds are the 660 simply won't fit, regardless of power draw. I can't say without measurements (and when I google the case the OP mentioned I get a whole range of sizes in the pictures, which doesn't help).

And... "officially" the requirement for a 750Ti isn't 300W. It's 60W. Or, rather, more specifically, <75W. The 300W is the suggested wattage for the whole system, not the requirement.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

snip
Total: $931.18

Shame on you. Just because a budget is $1k doesn't mean you have to aim to spend it all. A budget is a ceiling, not a target. Given his needs, he can recycle almost his entire system. You're building a helicopter for someone in need of a new tire for his bike. Don't confuse your wants (and preconceptions of what a gaming system should look like) with someone else's needs and expectations.

The OP comes here saying it's time to upgrade a very old GPU, housed in a very spartan system. A GPU that was a piss poor performer 6 years ago. A 750Ti is probably already a massive overkill for his needs, let alone your suggested 970, with cookie cutter third party CPU tower cooling for a CPU with unlocked multiplier. Ask yourself, does he really need these things to play WoW, a 10 year old game, and D3, a game that looks like it was finished a year later and then shelved for a number of years until the market was ready for it?

What does he do in these games? What does he do that warrants your suggested build? What FPS does he wish to achieve, at what graphical settings? Does he do serious organized 25 man raiding regularly? Does he record/stream live gameplay at high settings? Does he even have the ambition to do that? What expected gains does he get from the upgrade in CPU in WoW? He mentioned he has a screen, but not what resolution he's playing on. Judging by his current GPU, are you really suggesting he'd pay $1k for that system on what might very well be a 1024x768 monitor? Or do you just assume he's playing on a 1080p monitor with a GPU that was designed to be the low-end of the actual low-end only two years after 1080p was introduced to the world? Maybe he does, I don't know. Question is, how do you?

Also, why do you suggest a system built around overclocking to the OP, someone who's given no information whether or not he actually wants, but given indications he might not even know how to overclock? Maybe he does, I don't know, he hasn't said, but clues suggest that he's very casual about the whole tech stuff. And you never asked the OP, you simply assumed it's what he's got/what he wants. Judging by the lack of technical know-how the OP extrudes, these assumptions are clearly not based on his needs, but your own preconceptions of what he should need. These kinds of suggestions are very bad, as they're more about you and what you want than about the OP.

I might come off rather strong (haven't proof read this), it's not meant as a emotionally filled bashing. For what it's worth, your heart seems to be in the right place, since you're here trying to help. Your mind however; very egocentric. Don't judge a situation from your own perspective when you're trying to see it from someone else's. It should be common sense. Giving suggestions to someone who doesn't know as much as you do should be done with some responsibility, it's someone else's money you're playing with.

[Deleted]

Unless you don't plan to upgrade in less than say a year you could go for a 750ti. If you are thinking that by this time next year or end of it you will upgrade to a new rig and keep the gpu i would say it ain't worth, cause you will "lock" yourself with a low end card (750ti) or you will simply wasted the money for it. Bottom line, if you aint much happy with how your pc atm and you have the budget to upgrade to something like Arbiter's setup, then its better investment.

- - - Updated - - -

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snip
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You are mostly wrong on half you said. Yes the gpu manufacturers go on the safe side with wattage to account for crap psu's, but when we are talking about 250W psu's there is no headroom. Whatever way you look at it it can't produce the amps on 12v rail.

To the budget comment. When someone say i got a "1k budget" this automatically means i want the best i can get for that 1k. When we see 1-1.5k then it means there is headroom up to 1.5k if needed else can be the minimum or somewhere in between depending on his needs. Thus the sticky of this forums. 99% of the times we are talking about gaming and 1k ain't the biggest budget so you automatically go to 1k anyway. There is usually no reason (for your average gamer) to go usually above 1.5-1.8k depending on whether peripherals are needed or we are talking about canada/Australia that things are more expensive.

Also "spartan" means simple and powerful. Ermm... its not powerful for sure.

Overclocking is always preferred if it fits the budget, besides it like 30bucks/euro more overall. It give you that "future proof" everyone asks about, cause there is no other way to make it "future proof".

[Arbiter]

Exactly what Kost said,

and for the record, in my defense, I was unaware of any 750ti single fan solutions that didn't require PSU cables, which his PSU does not seem to have any for PCI-e cards. I wasn't going to recommend him some old card thats going to cost close to $100 and offer him no real performance increases. He mentioned he was considering upgrading his whole build with a 1k budget and I put together the best possible build with that budget to show him what he could get. As for your comment on him reusing items, The only item I added that he could've reused from his old build is the SSD, and he stated he wanted to leave it for his wife. I also had no knowledge of his CPU at the time and I would never suggest reusing Dell's motherboards when I don't even know what it is.

Don't try to play white knight on here, especially when the thread is pretty much over. The OP even PMd me telling me he was going with the 750ti.

As for stating budgets, if someone says "I have 3k to spend on a PC, someone help with parts?" I'm not going to link him a $500 build because I'm concerned about other uses for his money. Unless of course the OP says, "I have 3k to spend a PC but literally the only thing I plan to do on it is access Facebook and nothing else"....we'll advise him not to waste his money on things he'll never take advantage of. We won't recommend Quad SLI 980s just because someone wants to play WoW and has a big budget.

[Raphtheone]

You are mostly wrong on half you said. Yes the gpu manufacturers go on the safe side with wattage to account for crap psu's, but when we are talking about 250W psu's there is no headroom. Whatever way you look at it it can't produce the amps on 12v rail.

To the budget comment. When someone say i got a "1k budget" this automatically means i want the best i can get for that 1k. When we see 1-1.5k then it means there is headroom up to 1.5k if needed else can be the minimum or somewhere in between depending on his needs. Thus the sticky of this forums. 99% of the times we are talking about gaming and 1k ain't the biggest budget so you automatically go to 1k anyway. There is usually no reason (for your average gamer) to go usually above 1.5-1.8k depending on whether peripherals are needed or we are talking about canada/Australia that things are more expensive.

Also "spartan" means simple and powerful. Ermm... its not powerful for sure.

Overclocking is always preferred if it fits the budget, besides it like 30bucks/euro more overall. It give you that "future proof" everyone asks about, cause there is no other way to make it "future proof".

I wanted to respond directly to separate statements but the more I thought about it, I decided to leave your post intact. You're wrong in everything you're saying, except the parts where you agree with me. Yeah, I realize how that sounds.

1) A 250W PSU can indeed produce amps on 12v. Why would you state the opposite?
2) Regarding the budget comment. Like you said, which was in agreement with me, is the "if needed" part. If you don't know the need, or expected goals, how do you justify a higher price tag? You don't, it's all imaginary. Maybe there was a conversation in PM's between the OP and those giving suggestions that I wasn't privy to, but from what I've seen in this thread, the OP simply wanted to upgrade his GPU for WoW and D3. 2) From the mentioned sticky, the OP scored half a bullet-point mentioning the games he wanted to play, but not at what settings/resolution. That's not enough information to start suggesting k-series CPUs with third party coolers and state of the art GPUs. "Here, buy this Ferrari, you can go shopping once a week with it, np".
3) $1k budget might not be much for you or me, but that doesn't translate automatically to every other gamer out there. You're probably aware there are many low end AMD lovers out there, despite Intel being the go-to choice for CPU's in gaming systems.
4) Spartan is used to describe something that fullfils its function but is visually poor or underwhelming (like a room with a lack of features). Basically it means "simple yet functional". Functional does not equate to powerful. We're once again in agreement, it's not powerful.
5) Overclocking is never preferred if the owner of the system doesn't want to OC, regardless of budget. If it's an unknown, you ask. Or mention alternatives. Or something. Just don't assume someone wants the same things you do when you live on different sides of the spectrum.
6) You don't need a $140 motherboard to play WoW. The cheapest, or second cheapest on the market is still overkill for such a game. If I go "I want a new computer to play WoW on, I have $1k", and you present a $1k build and some other guy presents a $350 build, and both meet my resolution and FPS standards, tell me, and do this with a straight face, why should I opt for your $1k build? (because it was closer to the mentioned budget isn't a valid reason in this instance)

Exactly what Kost said,

and for the record, in my defense, [snip]

Ah, no need to get defensive. Like I said, I might sound like I'm coming on strong, but it wasn't my intent. I can completely understand not knowing about the 750Ti, it's kind of hard knowing everything about every piece of hardware (I for one didn't know some 750 Ti's came with power connectors). I'm not going to hold stuff like that against anyone. I'm also not here dictating what you should or shouldn't suggest, I'm only offering my perspective. What you do with it is up to you. If you consider it toilet paper, it's toilet paper. My perspective boils down to: Don't offer advice based on assumptions. Actually, don't make any decisions in your life whatsoever based on assumptions. Given the OP's questionable PSU (and potentially questionable motherboard), basically any <75W GPU would be a big upgrade. The 750 Ti isn't the only one out there, it's just the highest performing.

I would also like it if you pointed out a $100 GPU that would "offer him no real performance increases". A PoS 730 for $70 (or something) would be a huge upgrade. And by huge, I mean by upgrading again with an equal jump in performance we're in the ballpark of a 680, to give a sense of what at least I consider a real performance increase. Now, I'm not suggesting the OP should upgrade to a 730, he'd just trade one sinking ship for another. But your comment is very ill-conceived, for $100 the upgrade would be real, and immense. Doesn't mean it's a recommended upgrade though.

The OP only (reluctantly?) agreed to a new $1k budget build after you suggested he should, by potentially misleading the OP with subjective words instead of objective. When the OP reads these subjective phrases, of course he'll apply his own perspective on them (he has no way of knowing what these words mean to you, and as the egocentric creatures that we are it's only natural to think "decent" when we read the word "decent"), and make a potentially ill-informed decision to buy a new computer when he might not have to. I say might, since once again, maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, I don't know. But my point is, neither do you.

I'm not white knighting, learn to see constructive criticism when it's in front of you. I might come off strong, but that's no reason to devalue my input.

As for your last paragraph, that's in line with what I was saying. Don't offer overkill systems just because the newbie doesn't know any better.That is all I wanted to have said. Marest suggests cheaper builds capable of WoW/D3. A $1k build takes care of almost any gaming need at almost any graphical setting, the OP asked for a computer to play WoW/D3 on. He didn't say at what resolution, at what FPS, what he'd do, nothing. A suggestion should be based on the OP's needs, not the budget. The budget is the frame, the OP's needs is the target (not the other way around).

"You want something to make it easier posting letters? BAM, here, buy this airplane for $1,99M, and you can deliver it yourself". Yeah... If you don't know what he needs, just offer him a bike, and follow it up with "Does this meet your needs?". Maybe it's what he's looking for, maybe it isn't. But not acting on one's assumptions goes a long way and it's a great starting point.

And FYI, "pretty much over" does not equate to "over". "Pretty much over" equates to "there's still time!". Unless you're a defeatist, and you don't strike me as one.

[noczwf]

i feel really bad
everybody help me here...All
and i am sorry i did not give enough info
I am not a newby in hardwrae , but i am not at all a "expert" like many of you
i just did not follow the hardware scene for a good 4 or 5 years ....and thing go so fast shame on me
i know what OC mean and i was playing with OC back in the time when OC was like a lottery

i really appreciate arbiter, kostatto and jackfrost help....
I can also understand Raphtheone point as well.

So i will to give more info

I am not a 25 man raider, i was on hardcore while MC was hot (yeah yeah the damn 40 men raid lol) and then move to casual
i am raiding 10 normal but mainly i am enjoying the Social in Wow, along with pet battle and crazy stuff like that

i just want a smooth time when i play, since playing for me is to put the RL aside for a couple of hours
my old GPU was not giving me lately the nice experience i want (hard to found a sff good card)

the 1k is not the issue, but i dont like spending on something i will not probably use fully
so i will probably go with galaxy 750 ti and will upgrade in a year the whole system including GPU upgrade (and not with a prebuilt system like dell , that result of lazyness, lecon learn)

on the other side , i look all the 750 ti i can found and only only offer sff (writed)
Galaxy 750ti

the other one who migth offer SFF is the GigaBytes 750 ti but cannot found any writed proof they offer the bracket for sff
and only offer 1 DVI port

all the others do not seems to propose SFF

So i want to to say to everyone who help me THANKS

[jackfrost]

on the other side , i look all the 750 ti i can found and only only offer sff (writed)
Galaxy 750ti

the other one who migth offer SFF is the GigaBytes 750 ti but cannot found any writed proof they offer the bracket for sff
and only offer 1 DVI port

The gigabyte 750 ti I bought from newegg did come with a sff bracket, and the galaxy 750 ti only has one DVI port as well.

[bapaik]

The gigabyte 750 ti I bought from newegg did come with a sff bracket, and the galaxy 750 ti only has one DVI port as well.

Hi Jackfrost:

I'm a newbie to this forum (and doing hardware stuff on my comp), and had found a thread you had posted in last fall. I tried to PM you, but since I don't have enough posts, I figured I would revisit this thread here -- hopefully you see this. And since I can't post links, I'll just use the title of the GfX card

The thread was specifically about fitting single slot Gfx cards into SFF comps. You had mentioned you have an Optiplex 9020 SFF, and that you were able to use this card: GALAX NVIDIA GeForce GTX 750 Ti OC Slim 2GB from the galax website.

Is this correct? I have an Optiplex 9020 SFF (that's the tower with four USBs on the front, and vertical optical bay right?) as well, it's a stock machine -- getting it from a friend. Will I be able to use this card within this computer? Is the power consumption of the card going to work with the computer I have?

Thanks in advance for your insight!
Bradford

[Deleted]

This MSI gtx 750ti should fit. You can measure the space yourself to be 100% sure. You should tell us the rest of the specs, especially the psu so we know it can handle the gpu.

[bapaik]

You should tell us the rest of the specs, especially the psu so we know it can handle the gpu.

Hi! Thanks very much for your reply. I did see that card, and was wondering whether I could use it. A series of other posts from other websites in the Summer of 2014, led me to believe that I might just have to go with the Radeon R7 250, but I was wondering if there had been an upgrade.

I don't currently have my computer, as my friend is shipping it to me, so I can't check it physically. Though, he says that this card, Radeon R5 240, is currently inserted.

Looking over the specs of the comp, as listed by Dell for the registered computer, it does not say in the list of specs the PSU. But looking over different manuals, I am assuming that it is the 255 W PSU that comes standard for the SFF line.

The Amazon and Newegg reviews both have people stating that they have PSU lower than that, who can operate that card -- does this mean I could go with this?

6337P1Label, Service Tag/Express CodeCorona
JD5091LABEL, REGULATORY, SIDE, UNIVERSAL, BLANK , V2
T845M1INSTRUCTION, TRIGGER, SVC TAG
29MKK1ASSEMBLY, SPEAKER, 1W, ROUND, 23MM, HF, 990
5120P1Cord, Power, 125V, 6Feet, SJT, Unshielded
TY1301LABEL, INFORMATION, MANAGEMENT, AMT/DASH/VPRO
1YMPY1KIT, MEDIA, DIGITAL VIDEO DISK DRIVE, RDVD, OPTIPLEX, 9020
1KXK01ASSEMBLY, CHASSIS, PWA INTEGRATED, SLIM FORM FACTOR, 9020, BRONZE, V2
KR2H91Kit, Software, WBLUE64, Universal Serial Bus, England/English
531R82DUAL IN-LINE MEMORY MODULE, 4G, 1600, 1RX8, 4G, DDR3, NU
DJ4541KEYBOARD, 104, UNITED STATES, KB212B, W8, PRIMAX ELECTRONICS LTD
F9P1R1CARD (CIRCUIT), GRAPHICS, 1G, OUGA11, LOOP, 2
X4W7P1SSDR, 128G, S3, 7MM, SAMSUNG, PM851
N701D1ASSEMBLY, CABLE, Serial ATA, POWER SUPPLY SPLITTER, OPTIPLEX, 960
P876J4SCREW, M3X5, PHILLIPS HEAD, MACHINE SCREW, NICKEL
R494D1ASSEMBLY, BRACKET, 2.5, HARD DRIVE, CADDY, 960
DXGHM1DPK, Operating System, WBP32/64
Y18M41LABEL, GML INC, MICROSOFT, OPERATING SYSTEM, PROFESSIONAL
9RRC71KIT, MOUSE, UNIVERSAL SERIAL BUS, POINT OF SALE, LOGITECH, MS111
CNPJF1ASSEMBLY, DIGITAL VIDEO DISK DRIVE, 8X, 12.7T, HITACHI LG DATA STORAGE, ACROSS LINE OF BUSINESS
C558F1PROCESSOR, HSL, I5-4590, 3.3G, 84W, L
0U6151SWITCH/SWITCHING, PUSHBUTTON, NO CONTROLLER/WITH CABLES, RAMJET
RD6XX1ASSEMBLY, HEATSINK, FAN, SLIM FORM FACTOR, PERFORMANCE, 9020
235011LABEL, BARCODE, SYS BOX, GENERIC
655CC1SHIPPING MATERIAL, BAG, KTSK
89N8H1SHIPPING MATERIAL, BOX, SYSTEM, KATSIKI, SLIM FORM FACTOR
Y3YY41SHIPPING MATERIAL, BOX, OPTION, KATSIKI, SLIM FORM FACTOR
YYD7G2SHIPPING MATERIAL, CUSHION, SYSTEM, KTSK, SLIM FORM FACTOR, MPL
9M2T41LABEL, REGULATORY, SLIM FORM FACTOR, MEXICO/MEXICAN, 9020, ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY
32YFT1LABEL, INTEL, CI5, VPRO, SMALL

[Deleted]

The r5 240 needs just 10w (50w) less than the gtx 750ti (60w) at full load. So if it was running without problems before i can assume it will be fine after as well, power wise.

[bapaik]

The r5 240 needs just 10w (50w) less than the gtx 750ti (60w) at full load. So if it was running without problems before i can assume it will be fine after as well, power wise.

Well that's good news! I'm just curious about the clearance in the SFF frame -- I was hoping jack could shed some light on his set up.

Thanks for your technical help!

[akshat1984]

I would say that Zotac GeForce GTX 1050 Mini would be the best choice for SFF graphics card as it is affordable and powerful too.

Infracted for necro. Thread locked. - Cilraaz