[GUIDE] Mistweavers of Draenor: PvE Healing in [6.2]

[Totaltotemic]

I feel really dumb for asking this but I can't test it myself right now. Does the extra chi sphere last the same time as a normal GotS sphere or is it longer/shorter?

They appear to last for 2 minutes based on trying to stack as many as I could in my garrison.

[Deleted]

Awesome post Geodew. Glad to see my sneaky suspicions about haste not *totally* unfounded!

[Kenai]

They appear to last for 2 minutes based on trying to stack as many as I could in my garrison.

Ok thanks. I can definitely see why Supliftz supports Power Strikes in that case. that's effectively having a Chi Brew all around you and then some.

[Supliftz]

Supz, could you drop your Power Strikes WA here? I haven't actually seen one before, so I am in dire need of one, and I can't .lua for my life.

I didn't create it but.

http://pastebin.com/DZ7tjXfM

Also I don't believe 100% in the spirit stat weight. It's really hard to accurately judge it, when you're not assuming other things that might happen. Also completely ignoring Crane kinda sucks. Spirit is the biggest gate in higher gear levels for crane.

I could of missed it, but does your spirit weight not count ReM casts? I've noticed in my own testing, using RJW reactively is extremely mana taxing. Combined with ReM/Surging casts.

Everything else is correct imo.

[Deleted]

CB only offers more control if you have no idea how to use PS. Use the Power Strikes WA and have the same level of control, w/ double the chi gen.

I used PS in the pre patch, really like it, but i also see alot of mistweaver using CB so i assumed it is better becuse of the control, is this actually not true then?

[Supliftz]

It's the same idea behind people using ascension forever. People don't read changes and stick with what they know.

Power strikes arguably offers more control, on top of double the chi gen.

Power Strikes gameplay tip. Proc the Power strikes orb on the ground before the pull, and enjoy anywhere between 2-7 extra chi. Obviously depends on how fast your group pulls.

[Deleted]

Awesome tip! will try it out, never even thought about that lol xd

[Anaphaze]

What are we doing about the horrible itemization in Highmaul? Replacing multistrike pieces is going to feel horrible for jade mist procs.

[Floopa]

What are we doing about the horrible itemization in Highmaul? Replacing multistrike pieces is going to feel horrible for jade mist procs.

get some pvp pieces / triple upgraded LW items / boe items.

[Volibear]

Monkioh, what's your take on using Staff of the Grand Imperator (Crit/MS) over the MH/OH? Is passing up the Crit on the OH worth the extra SP gained from the BRF weapons?

[Natureseer]

Monkioh, what's your take on using Staff of the Grand Imperator (Crit/MS) over the MH/OH? Is passing up the Crit on the OH worth the extra SP gained from the BRF weapons?

based on my general understanding of items and common sense, 10 ilvls worth of spellpower is going to win in any situation, especially where only roughly 1/4th of the "weapon budget" is losing out on crit (the axe is crit/ms and the offhand is ms/haste.) i think thats pretty obvious. also the OP has the mh/oh listed as BIS so theres also that.

[Supliftz]

Monkioh, what's your take on using Staff of the Grand Imperator (Crit/MS) over the MH/OH? Is passing up the Crit on the OH worth the extra SP gained from the BRF weapons?

Not worth the int/sp loss for slightly more crit.

[Yunaqt]

There is a few boes to clean up a few slots (def going for the helm, belt & crit neck) + crafted bits (focusing on legs since the Highmaul ones are beyond bad).
The world bosses have a multistrike neck, chest & gloves so I'll prob shoot for those as well.

Should tie me over until BRF =\

[Supliftz]

Cool trinket hotfixes.

565 spirit on trinkets, what is this shit LOL.

[Cover25]

Cool trinket hotfixes.

565 spirit on trinkets, what is this shit LOL.

Thoughts of BiS for pre blackrock foundry trinkets?

[Volibear]

I thought that was going to be the case for the weapons, was just curious. Definitely BiS during highmaul though, imo.

What trinkets were hotfixed?

[Geodew]

Now that I'm done swooning over the post itself, there's some higher level philosophical stuff (i.e. why the math comes out the way that it does) about Spirit and why its value seems so damn low. The short version is that RJW and SCK cost far too much more mana than Surging Mist for their healing. Specifically, the fact that the difference between RJW and Surging Mist is 1635.176% SP yet the mana cost difference is 12624 means that RJW is about as efficient as Surging Mist even with a fully effective AoE heal over time. This doesn't make much sense though, seeing as Surging Mist is already supposed to be the inefficient and fast heal.

Consider that for that difference in mana you could have had at least 2 more Surging Mists (after Mana Tea) which are valued at 990% SP for another Uplift and 317% effective SP each for a total of 1624% SP, or almost the same as the original SP difference. So what we're saying here is that each new cast of RJW is doing Surging/Surging/Uplift in 1 GCD instead of 3, but this doesn't take any extra mana to cast. This is why Spirit has a much lower value than for other healers, you don't always want to cast RJW instead of Surging just because it is effective anyways because if Surging is Flash Heal, then RJW is just Flash Heal spread across multiple people in one third of the execute time for the same mana cost.

This correlates with Floopa's experiences from beta that Surging was practically worthless because RJW did the same thing but a lot faster for the same mana cost. More Spirit isn't really buying you anything because RJW is no more or less efficient than Surging, and you already have the base regen to spam Surging as much as you like as long as you don't have haste yet. A personal anecdote from my Holy Paladin alt is that I could spam Flash of Light almost indefinitely in terrible 630 ilvl gear, so if that holds true with MW as well (providing you stop to drink Mana Tea) then why should Spirit be any good?

In most cases (e.g. Uplift vs Enveloping Mist) AoE heals are more efficient than single target heals if they can be fully effective. In RJW's case it is not more efficient, just faster, so it is actually more inefficient than AoE heals typically are. Less efficient heals means each extra point of mana is less valuable, and thus why Spirit is less valuable for MW.

An interesting assessment. To rephrase what Total said, it's true that RJW has great mana efficiency by itself compared to SM (about 12.0 HPM vs 5.4 HPM), but that doesn't take into account the zero-mana-cost healing from Uplift that casting additional Chi Generators yields. When you take that into account, they're very close.

However, it doesn't look like you took into account the fact that you can SooM while you Surging, so it seems like RJW is actually LESS efficient by a bit, since casting SooM takes almost no time and SooM is very mana-efficient (16.7 HPM). This is good for gameplay because instead of the gameplay being "RJW->stand around waiting for mana," which is really boring, the optimal gameplay is "use SM to generate chi as much as possible but RJW/SCK when shit gets crazy." I was assuming that was the case, but it's good to have some evidence to support my theory.

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chi torpedo is garbage, you'll still take RJW but you'll use it less frequently.

maybe when we get 4pc t17 (... or whatever tier we're on, i can't remember) you'll take CT because soothe > surge becomes a lot (A LOT) stronger

I didn't believe you for a sec, but CT looks kinda meh. It may have its uses, though. Its main advantage seems to be that it doesn't cost any mana. Looking at Hamlet's HealerCalcs here, it says SooM+SM is about 46.6k HPCT and CT is 58.6. For comparison, Uplift is 73.7, Channeling SooM with EM up is 85.7, SCK is 59.3, RJW is 161.4, ReM is 43.6 (no overheal).

So I guess it's looking like: RJW for max burst, Xuen for sustained burst or cleave fights, CT for overall sustained?

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Somethings I would argue:
- Spirit scarcity, you can only have spirit on 6 pieces of gear out of 15/16 slots and this isn't taken into account.

It doesn't need to be. That doesn't affect stat weights. The only thing that matters is how much Spirit does what. If you think that's incorrect, can you elaborate? Perhaps I don't understand your point.

For your spirit calculations 800% SP per second outside Revival is way too much, I math an Uplift cast at 600% per second, and a ReM cast at ~200% SP per second (and it's cast on CD), both obviously without accounting for mastery/haste, but you get the idea. Using your numbers RJW + Soo + 3xSM every 6 seconds is ~714% per second. Considering we can OOM really fast atm if we just go all out HPS Malkorok style, drinking tea, dispelling, repositioning and what not, anything between 500% and 650% SP per second depending on the fight seems a lot more realistic even for 95%+ percentile parses. For more middle of the pack players this would be even lower and raise spirits value higher.

Well, RJW is 2500% spellpower in one GCD :P But actually I do think this number is wrong; I already realized that earlier today while I was mulling it over. I think I did a mix of per-second and per-GCD when I was doing the calculations, so it's probably more like 800/1.5*(1+Haste%) = 577%. Not sure that's correct either; I need to go back to re-do it. If correct, that would raise its value to 1.02 with RJW.

- Reducing damage via versatility is good and nifty but doesn't really have an impact in our HPS which is what I as a healer am concerned with (If anything it reduces potential HPS). Not saying it's worthless and shouldn't be taken into account but it doesn't really help output and shouldn't be considered for weights. For me it's just a little extra that you get with the % increased healing, that might help you not die, but is outweighted enormously by good play.

Damage reduction is effective healing done. This is, in fact, how spells like Power Word: Barrier and Devotion Aura are compared with other raid cooldowns. (See https://healiocentric.wordpress.com/...owns-overview/ )

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I didn't create it but.

http://pastebin.com/DZ7tjXfM

Also I don't believe 100% in the spirit stat weight. It's really hard to accurately judge it, when you're not assuming other things that might happen. Also completely ignoring Crane kinda sucks. Spirit is the biggest gate in higher gear levels for crane.

I could of missed it, but does your spirit weight not count ReM casts? I've noticed in my own testing, using RJW reactively is extremely mana taxing. Combined with ReM/Surging casts.

Everything else is correct imo.

You cast the same number of ReMs regardless of Spirit level, so that doesn't affect it.

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Hey, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot. We're knee-deep in combat log testing today so it's ready for Tuesday's Highmaul, but we really want to chat about these stat weights. You put a ton of theorycrafting into them, with a ton of good info. It will take us a couple of days to read, digest, and respond. In the meantime, here is a blog post about how we get our stat weights: http://blog.askmrrobot.com/?p=2202

Once our stat guy has time later this week, he'll hit you all up about where any differences are in the weights

The linked post is talking about simulations and simulation iterations. While I understand this method works great for DPS and Tanks with Theck-Meloree Index, what good is it for Healers? That's why we generate our stat weights with math like this :P

[severina]

So here's a stupid question.. With pool of mists going and at about 18% multistrike going into tomorrow's raid, should we keep renewing mist off of cooldown completely, or should we always have one available and cast about 2 at a time? Realizing in big groups that once i have it off cd my max RM targets goes way lower after the initial burst of RM blankets wears off.

I may not be making sense, it's late.

[Totaltotemic]

An interesting assessment. To rephrase what Total said, it's true that RJW has great mana efficiency by itself compared to SM (about 12.0 HPM vs 5.4 HPM), but that doesn't take into account the zero-mana-cost healing from Uplift that casting additional Chi Generators yields. When you take that into account, they're very close.

However, it doesn't look like you took into account the fact that you can SooM while you Surging, so it seems like RJW is actually LESS efficient by a bit, since casting SooM takes almost no time and SooM is very mana-efficient (16.7 HPM). This is good for gameplay because instead of the gameplay being "RJW->stand around waiting for mana," which is really boring, the optimal gameplay is "use SM to generate chi as much as possible but RJW/SCK when shit gets crazy." I was assuming that was the case, but it's good to have some evidence to support my theory.

Yeah that's true, but the point is that RJW should be its same cost minus 2 chi worth of Mana Tea. Instead it looks like someone took Surging + chi value in healing and made RJW equal to three of those in healing and mana cost when in reality it still only generates the one chi and only benefits from the Mana Tea reduction once instead of three times.

Realistically it's just another casualty of the outdated and now useless Mana Tea effect that really doesn't do much of anything except make MW harder to balance internally.

[severina]

Supz, could you drop your Power Strikes WA here? I haven't actually seen one before, so I am in dire need of one, and I can't .lua for my life.

Mine isn't the best but here it is... it just displays an icon when power strikes is up and ready and disappears when it's on CD. I just keep it by my Renewing Mists tracker and right by my vuhdo.

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